Rev 11, The (Two Witnesses) Will Rule The Tribulation By Plagues And God's Judgement

[Truth7t7]

Yeah you keep saying my claim is false but and yet you have not shown any real evidence of your own claim. Again as I have said many times it is important to understand who was being spoken to the context in which it was being spoken and understanding the distinction within scripture or are we not taught to rightly divide?

You use a part of this book but if you read the entire book you can see the whole picture not jkust a part you cherry pick to makje it say what you want, if you read the entire book he was clearly speaking to this particular church because even back then they waited and watched for all these things in the book of revelations there are also seven churches specifically being spoken to.
Honestly it doesn't matter to me whether you or I are right in our understanding as I know that debates such as this has no concluding stand point but I do however have issue with your false accusations of me.

In our debates you accuse me of following some people I have never heard you keep saying my claim is false but your entire bases of your point is based ont he interpretation of who he was speaking to which in of itself is not a very solid foundation to stand on but even 2 thessolonians is not near enough to prove your or my claim because we are only using part of the entire picture

I have told you and many others many times before the bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many layers and it is also like a spider web each verse in one way or another connects to another however this part I add if you see the bible as a painted picture of God's own design you also have to conclude that it is not a blended picture it has different colors different aspects and lighting

Doy uo want to know how and why I came to understand dispensation? I am an artist and a writer at heart as both an artist and writer you learn how to see and understand how things are used in both art and words the strength and weakness the contrast what goes and blends well together vs. what doesn't
When certain words or colors are placed incorrectly or seen from the wrong aspect they are weak and do not blend well but in both colors and words placing them in certain places and with certain colors or words makes the blend perfectly they fit together and work together in union to help create the bigger picture

I do not look att the bible with the same eyes I do not see mere words I see a giant painting I see a beautiful symphony of poetry and while yes I do have much to learn God used what I enjoy and am naturally good at to show me the understanding needed to view the scriptures with different eyes this is how the spirit works he will bring us to deeper realms and show us all truths but we also have to have a teachable spirit and heart that is willing to question our own views and beliefs if you want to prove your belief right then try to prove it wrong as if knowing nothing having no pre view or belief just a blank slate ready to be painted by him

Thanks for the response, it's my opinion after watching your postings for a month, that your teaching is straight out of Dispensationalism's playbook.

To claim you have no idea of dispensationalism and its teachings is unbelievable in my opinion.

Dallas Theological, Biola, Tim La Haye, Thomas Ice, David Jeremiah, John Hagee, J. Vernon McGee, Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler, Chuck Swindoll , David Reagan, and the list goes on.

 

[bud62]

Revelation 11:3-6 The (Two Witnesses) Literal Prophets Returned, They Will Rule The Future Tribulation.

Many remain silent on the (Two Witnesses) seen below, as they elevate the (Antichrist) in false fear, don't be deceived!

The two witnesses will bring all plagues seen in the book of Revelation, 5 months of torment, men desiring to die and they cant, noisome sores, water to blood, scorching heat, darkness in pain, as the world worships before the churches feet present on earth as seen in Rev 3:9 below.

A complete remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, no Hebrews were running scared, no plagues came upon the Hebrews, it's going to be a replay, read it before your eyes, (All Plagues As Often As The Will)

The Two Witnesses will kill the enemy by Fire from their mouth?

This fire is brought by their (Words/Mouth), just like when Elijah called fire from heaven, destroying the enemy, 1 Kings 18:25-40

Many continue to elevate the (Antichrist) in pushing fear falsely, the (Two Witnesses) will rule the Tribulation, through Gods Judgement.

Revelation 3:9KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Revelation 11:3-6KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

God's divine protection of the Church during the tribulation.

Revelation 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Revelation 9:3-5KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

The two witnesses Rule 1260 years, And they ARE the New testament And The OLD testament,

 

[Blain]

Thanks for the response, it's my opinion after watching your postings for a month, that your teaching is straight out of Dispensationalism's playbook.

To claim you have no idea of dispensationalism and its teachings is unbelievable in my opinion.

Dallas Theological, Biola, Tim La Haye, Thomas Ice, David Jeremiah, John Hagee, J. Vernon McGee, Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler, Chuck Swindoll , David Reagan, and the list goes on.

A couple of these people I have heard of but only one by name as I always get a bad feeling when I hear his name inside and John Haggee I really cannot stand to watch his sermons or teachings but whether you believe me or not is of no consequence. If you know my postings then you know how open I am to give testimonies and how open I am with my thoughts honestly I wish I didn't do it so often but I just naturally speak what is placed on my heart it's how God and I have always been so I explained to you how and why I believe this you can believe my testimony or not

 

[cv5]

Dispensationalism's John N. Darby, C.I. Scofield, Dallas theological, Thomas Ice, Tim La Haye, Chuck Missler?

You push the (False Teachings) of those seen above in dispensationalism

You have promoted (Thomas Ice) and the false teaching that 2 Thess 2:3 and the Greek word (Apostasia) is a rapture of the Church to heaven, and not a falling away of the Church from truth in (Apostasy)

You go further to state the 144,000 in Revelation 14:1-7 aren't Christian's, that are preaching the (Everlasting Gospel) on the earth, in the death, burial, resurrection, and salvation in Jesus Christ

And you use the word (Error) in Eschatology?

I have only one thing to say. I truly and actually understand the end time eschatology of which I am speaking about. And I understand when someone does not understand. To me your posts are rambling incoherent error. End time eschatology is seamless perfection with flawless integrity.

To stay on point let me ask you this:
Find for me this term anywhere past Revelation chapter 3. And good luck.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1577.htm
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?page=3&strongs=g1577&t=kjv#lexResults


Matt 13:23
But the seed sown on good soil is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and produces a crop—a hundredfold, sixtyfold, or thirtyfold.”

 

[cv5]

Yeah you keep saying my claim is false but and yet you have not shown any real evidence of your own claim. Again as I have said many times it is important to understand who was being spoken to the context in which it was being spoken and understanding the distinction within scripture or are we not taught to rightly divide?

You use a part of this book but if you read the entire book you can see the whole picture not jkust a part you cherry pick to makje it say what you want, if you read the entire book he was clearly speaking to this particular church because even back then they waited and watched for all these things in the book of revelations there are also seven churches specifically being spoken to.
Honestly it doesn't matter to me whether you or I are right in our understanding as I know that debates such as this has no concluding stand point but I do however have issue with your false accusations of me.

In our debates you accuse me of following some people I have never heard you keep saying my claim is false but your entire bases of your point is based ont he interpretation of who he was speaking to which in of itself is not a very solid foundation to stand on but even 2 thessolonians is not near enough to prove your or my claim because we are only using part of the entire picture

I have told you and many others many times before the bible is like an onion or the earths crust it has many layers and it is also like a spider web each verse in one way or another connects to another however this part I add if you see the bible as a painted picture of God's own design you also have to conclude that it is not a blended picture it has different colors different aspects and lighting

Doy uo want to know how and why I came to understand dispensation? I am an artist and a writer at heart as both an artist and writer you learn how to see and understand how things are used in both art and words the strength and weakness the contrast what goes and blends well together vs. what doesn't
When certain words or colors are placed incorrectly or seen from the wrong aspect they are weak and do not blend well but in both colors and words placing them in certain places and with certain colors or words makes the blend perfectly they fit together and work together in union to help create the bigger picture

I do not look att the bible with the same eyes I do not see mere words I see a giant painting I see a beautiful symphony of poetry and while yes I do have much to learn God used what I enjoy and am naturally good at to show me the understanding needed to view the scriptures with different eyes this is how the spirit works he will bring us to deeper realms and show us all truths but we also have to have a teachable spirit and heart that is willing to question our own views and beliefs if you want to prove your belief right then try to prove it wrong as if knowing nothing having no pre view or belief just a blank slate ready to be painted by him

"I do not look att the bible with the same eyes I do not see mere words I see a giant painting I see a beautiful symphony of poetry"

My dear friend.....You and I have a great deal in common. I too understand the Bible as if it were a beautiful mosaic, but in 3D. A wonderous perfect machine with everything working in exacting precision and perfection. The Bible is not filled with merely words.....it is an integrated message system from outside our space time continuum, doubtless written by the divine wisdom and omnicient intelligence of our creator God.

 

[Truth7t7]

The two witnesses Rule 1260 years, And they ARE the New testament And The OLD testament,

(Reformed Theology, Historicism) False

No The Popes Throughout History Didnt Fulfill The Scripture Concerning The (Future) Man Of Sin/The Beast/The Antichrist

No Daniel's Abomination And The Great Tribulation Didnt Take Place In The 1st Century Jerusalem

No Nero Wasnt The Antichrist, That Committed Suicide, As The Lord Destroys The (Future) Beast/Man Of Sin/Antichrist By The Brightness Of His Coming.

 

[Truth7t7]

I have only one thing to say. I truly and actually understand the end time eschatology of which I am speaking about. And I understand when someone does not understand. To me your posts are rambling incoherent error. End time eschatology is seamless perfection with flawless integrity.

To stay on point let me ask you this:
Find for me this term anywhere past Revelation chapter 3. And good luck.
https://biblehub.com/greek/1577.htm
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?page=3&strongs=g1577&t=kjv#lexResults


Matt 13:23
But the seed sown on good soil is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and produces a crop—a hundredfold, sixtyfold, or thirtyfold.”

Incoherent Error?

You have promoted (Thomas Ice) and the false teaching that 2 Thess 2:3 and the Greek word (Apostasia) is a rapture of the Church to heaven, and not a falling away of the Church from truth in (Apostasy)?

You go further to state the 144,000 in Revelation 14:1-7 aren't Christian's, that are preaching the (Everlasting Gospel) on the earth, in the death, burial, resurrection, and salvation in Jesus Christ?

 

[Blain]

"I do not look att the bible with the same eyes I do not see mere words I see a giant painting I see a beautiful symphony of poetry"

My dear friend.....You and I have a great deal in common. I too understand the Bible as if it were a beautiful mosaic, but in 3D. A wonderous perfect machine with everything working in exacting precision and perfection. The Bible is not filled with merely words.....it is an integrated message system from outside our space time continuum, doubtless written by the divine wisdom and omnicient intelligence of our creator God.

Yes it is truly majestic isn't it? I know many read the word of God and see and read the words but the bible is not like any other book in the world to call even a book is like trying to describe a beautiful dream but you just don't have the words to describe it

To me when I hold the bible in my hands I am not holding a book I am holding his very heart, all the wisdom and glory that he used to create and weave everything how infinite his power and love shapes everything in our existance the power that his word has flowing through those pages it just baffles me.
We read the bible but do we really see it? Do we see words or is there so much more?

 

[Truth7t7]

The Bible is not filled with merely words.....it is an integrated message system from outside our space time continuum, doubtless written by the divine wisdom and omnicient intelligence of our creator God.

Until The List Below, Twisted Gods Truth Into Deception, (Dispensationalism)

John N. Darby, C.I Scofield, Dallas Theological, Biola, Tim La Haye, Thomas Ice, David Jeremiah, John Hagee, J. Vernon McGee, Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler, Chuck Swindoll , David Reagan, and the list goes on.

 

[Blain]

Until The List Below, Twisted Gods Truth Into Deception, (Dispensationalism)

John N. Darby, C.I Scofield, Dallas Theological, Biola, Tim La Haye, Thomas Ice, David Jeremiah, John Hagee, J. Vernon McGee, Chuck Smith, Chuck Missler, Chuck Swindoll , David Reagan, and the list goes on.

Then by all means prove it to be false and deception, anyone can claim something to be false so please by all means prove your claim. Also just because false teachers use this doesn't mean it in of itself is false that would be like false teachers misusing scripture and saying scripture is false

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Another of Truth7t7's cut and paste bible 'teaching'

 

[Truth7t7]

Then by all means prove it to be false and deception, anyone can claim something to be false so please by all means prove your claim. Also just because false teachers use this doesn't mean it in of itself is false that would be like false teachers misusing scripture and saying scripture is false

By all means, post one passage at a time of scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven, we will go real slow, waiting

 

[cv5]

Incoherent Error?

You have promoted (Thomas Ice) and the false teaching that 2 Thess 2:3 and the Greek word (Apostasia) is a rapture of the Church to heaven, and not a falling away of the Church from truth in (Apostasy)?

You go further to state the 144,000 in Revelation 14:1-7 aren't Christian's, that are preaching the (Everlasting Gospel) on the earth, in the death, burial, resurrection, and salvation in Jesus Christ?

Please answer the question I asked in post # 104.

 

[cv5]

By all means, post one passage at a time of scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven, we will go real slow, waiting

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-pre-trib-rapture.188798/page-15#post-4095977

Triple redundancy my friend. The fallen angels/giants theory has quadruple redundancy. And all kinds of so-called pastors rejected that as well. Not for any good reason mind you. Simply because they find it unpalatable and reject this teaching.

I am bailing out on my former pastor and his Church because he is an amillennialist and believes the Sethite theory of Genesis 6. Amillennialism is such an horrific heresy that I cannot bear it nor can I bear anyone proclaiming it, as my mind becomes a cacophony of warning bells, sirens and red flags. Furthermore amillennialism inevitably gives birth to replacement theology, whether explicitly stated or not.

 

[Truth7t7]

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-pre-trib-rapture.188798/page-15#post-4095977

Triple redundancy my friend. The fallen angels/giants theory has quadruple redundancy. And all kinds of so-called pastors rejected that as well. Not for any good reason mind you. Simply because they find it unpalatable and reject this teaching.

I am bailing out on my former pastor and his Church because he is an amillennialist and believes the Sethite theory of Genesis 6. Amillennialism is such an horrific heresy that I cannot bear it nor can I bear anyone proclaiming it, as my mind becomes a cacophony of warning bells, sirens and red flags. Furthermore amillennialism inevitably gives birth to replacement theology, whether explicitly stated or not.

The Nephilim is a false teaching promoted by Chuck Missler,Angel's dont procreate with humans, Greek Mythology.

There will be no future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, a false teaching of man, as Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire. 2 Peter 3:10

The Church is Israel, children of the promised seen, it's called inheritance theology. Roman's 9:6-8

 

[Truth7t7]

Please answer the question I asked in post # 104.

Asked And Answered In Post #42

The Church is present on earth to witness the Antichrist revealed

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Church will be present on earth to witness Jerusalem surrounded by armies Rev 11:2, and see Jesus Christ return in the clouds of heaven

(Look Up, Your Redemption Draweth Nigh)

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Luke 21:24-28KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The Church is seen in Revelation 14:12

Revelation 14:12KJV
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The Lord is speaking to the Church present on earth, regarding their divine protection, as (The Beast) is revealed.

Revelation 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

 

[Truth7t7]

Please answer the question I asked in post # 104.

Incoherent Error?

You have promoted (Thomas Ice) and the false teaching that 2 Thess 2:3 and the Greek word (Apostasia) is a rapture of the Church to heaven, and not a falling away of the Church from truth in (Apostasy)?

You go further to state the 144,000 in Revelation 14:1-7 aren't Christian's, that are preaching the (Everlasting Gospel) on the earth, in the death, burial, resurrection, and salvation in Jesus Christ?

 

[Blain]

By all means, post one passage at a time of scripture to support a pre-trib rapture of the church to heaven, we will go real slow, waiting

If you will answers cv5's question and also prove that understanding how to rightly divide the word is false then I will play your game

 

[Blain]

Asked And Answered In Post #42

The Church is present on earth to witness the Antichrist revealed

(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The Church will be present on earth to witness Jerusalem surrounded by armies Rev 11:2, and see Jesus Christ return in the clouds of heaven

(Look Up, Your Redemption Draweth Nigh)

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Luke 21:24-28KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

The Church is seen in Revelation 14:12

Revelation 14:12KJV
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The Lord is speaking to the Church present on earth, regarding their divine protection, as (The Beast) is revealed.

Revelation 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

This isn't an answer it's a misdirection check again what his question was.

 

[Jackson123]

The two witnesses Rule 1260 years, And they ARE the New testament And The OLD testament,

Why only 1260 years? Are old and New Testament rule in the same time?
If any hurt them, it will kill by fire from their mouth

Is old and New Testament kill people by fire from their mouth?
Rev 11
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.