Today’s church’s misunderstandings

[posthuman]

A God Who enacts different "rules" at different times (for different purposes!) doesn't fit in her box.

Maybe it's key to realize that God didn't give the sabbaths for man to rest. He gave the sabbaths for man to know that it is God who sanctified us, not we ourselves.

I don't want to stir up bitterness tho I just want to dispel the idea that the churches habit of meeting on sunday is a pagan changing-of-the-times.

Sunday isn't sabbath. It's not replacement sabbath, it's not additional sabbath, and what we do when we meet on sunday isn't 'sabbath keeping 2.0'

sunday is the 8th day, the day of being declared clean, the day of newness, the day of the resurrection.
Jesus Christ is The Sabbath, our rest, and He is a person, God, not a day

 

[AlmondJoy]

Christ said "you have been told" and then Christ stated a law. Then Christ said "but I tell you". Some say, as you have, that a law must be repeated by Christ to be accepted. However, that was spoken to a large group of Jews who had absolute faith in the law. What was new was that Christ explained the laws, giving them in the spirit of the Lord instead of by hard and fast rules.
If you say the Christ cancelled the old rules and gave new ones, then you are saying that Christ has taken away the power of the old God and is a new God for us. I do not think that is so. Christ told us He and the Father were one. Christ always was in complete agreement with the Father. We must conclude that Christ was explaining the law, not taking over from from the Father.

So are you still killing animals and offering them up for your sin?

Do you leave your house without a paddle (shovel)? Deuteronomy 23:13

If you say you "keep the sabbath"
Do you leave your house and go more than one mile? If so you broke it

do you turn your Ac or heater on? If so you broke it

If we could keep all the old Testament Laws then Jesus would have had no need to die for our sins on the cross....no??

 

[AlmondJoy]

well, that would be because if she does not do that, then the entire argument for OT law will fold

I mean it has folded anyway, but some folks don't know when they are so far from scripture, they have basically made a new religion based on their choice of law, day and feasts etc

at least the animals seem to have some relief from sacrifice (sad humor)

 

[AlmondJoy]

Those who "think" you keep the sabbath by going to church on Saturday, is that all you do?

What about sabbatical weeks?
What about sabbatical year?

Can you Imagine what might happen under the mosaic law if someone said to Moses "I kept the sabbath, I go to church"

You break the old Testament law by leaving your house and going to church!!!

BIG DEAL IF YOU GO TO CHURCH ON SATURDAY!!!

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Hebrews 10:25 KJV

I dont care what day you go on....just go

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Colossians 2:13‭-‬16

 

[AlmondJoy]

In the same way, ex idol worshippers met on the day they had always met. They formerly met on Sunday to worship the sun god.

So if the sun comes out on Saturday do you still go to church? If so aren't you afraid of doing as the pagans do?

 

[lenna]

And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

HALLELUJAH

 

[Blik]

well, that would be because if she does not do that, then the entire argument for OT law will fold

I mean it has folded anyway, but some folks don't know when they are so far from scripture, they have basically made a new religion based on their choice of law, day and feasts etc

at least the animals seem to have some relief from sacrifice (sad humor)

And so you preach it is fine to lie, cheat , and steal! And teach that I may not tell of the work of Christ for forgiveness, but if feasts, or that we have an OT then it wipes that out. Your teaching is a menace.

 

[oldethennew]

i am not presently arguing whether one should keep sabbath or not.

what i am saying is that the thing which is cultic is perverting the actual history of the church, arguing that the pope or Constantine 'changed' the day Christians traditionally met. that is not true

I will make a beginning of the eighth day, that is, a beginning of another world. For that reason, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day on which Jesus rose again from the dead.​

Barnabas 15:8-9, ~ 100AD

The seventh day is proclaimed a day of rest, preparing by abstention from evil for the Primal day, our true rest.
- Clement of Alexandria ~ 190AD

We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath
Tertullian's Apology, Ch 16 ~ 200AD
​

all the early church writings we have, hundreds of years prior to the council at Nicene, demonstrate that Christians had the tradition of meeting on the 8th day, calling it the Lord's day, and believing it - the day of the feast of firstfruits - is the day Christ rose.

what is cultic is quoting people from the 1900's about whether Believers in the 100's met on the 7th vs. the 8th
when we have actual writings from actual Christians in the first 3 centuries unquestionably proving the opposite.



i am not arguing the rightness or wrongness of 7th days.
i am showing you that the church has always observed the 8th.

=========================
Post,
the so called 'church fathers' have NO RIGHT to CHANGE any portion of The Word of God -
only God Almighty can proclaim that which is Holy...
it is written:
DEU. 4:2.
You shall not add unto The Word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from it,
that you may keep The Commandments of The LORD your God which I command you.

adding or subtracting from The Word of God is 'contrary to The Word of God', therefore,
it is 'invalid'...

 

[oldethennew]

there is much more to be investigated/learned on this journey Jesus/Yeshua has led/put us on,
His called-elect-chosen -
we really have no choice, but to seek/unveil/live His mysteries and to pursue/discern,
the depths and riches of His heart's desire...

 

[Blik]

So are you still killing animals and offering them up for your sin?

Do you leave your house without a paddle (shovel)? Deuteronomy 23:13

If you say you "keep the sabbath"
Do you leave your house and go more than one mile? If so you broke it

do you turn your Ac or heater on? If so you broke it

If we could keep all the old Testament Laws then Jesus would have had no need to die for our sins on the cross....no??

Why do you think you are so against all scripture? I am posting to the people interested in what scripture tells us, you are not so why are you reading posts? You are using them , distorting what they say so by the time you answer it is a testimony against all that is of the Lord.

It was the Lord who told us to kill animals as a symbol of Christ's giving blood for sin. It was the Lord who told us that we must not do that after Christ gave His blood for our sin. Are you against God?

I have said that the Lord established the Sabbath at creation, do you think that the Lord did not do this?

You speak of obeying man's interpretation of scripture, have you seriously considered doing this?

Are you putting me up for trial so that you may judge me, and what gives you the right to be my judge?

 

[posthuman]

=========================
Post,
the so called 'church fathers' have NO RIGHT to CHANGE any portion of The Word of God -
only God Almighty can proclaim that which is Holy...
it is written:
DEU. 4:2.
You shall not add unto The Word which I command you, neither shall you diminish ought from it,
that you may keep The Commandments of The LORD your God which I command you.

adding or subtracting from The Word of God is 'contrary to The Word of God', therefore,
it is 'invalid'...

my point is that there is abundant evidence that the very believers in The Way who sat at the apostles feet were meeting on what they called the 8th day which is also the 1st, believing it was the day that Christ rose. hundreds of years before the council of Nicene.
i have seen no evidence at all -- and no one has thus far produced it -- to the contrary.

i haven't even seen any evidence that this was controversial until 1863 when the SDA appeared.

in 50AD, Acts 15, believing pharisees sought to force the church to keep the law of Moses. if sabbath is in Acts 15, that's where it is. in the argument of the believing pharisees. ((find ourselves in the scripture?))
the council -- the Holy Spirit -- rejected their opinion.

it's not without a reason that we have a 2 day weekend in the US.

 

[posthuman]

And so you preach it is fine to lie, cheat , and steal! And teach that I may not tell of the work of Christ for forgiveness, but if feasts, or that we have an OT then it wipes that out. Your teaching is a menace.

if the law is the only way we know it is wicked to lie, cheat and steal then whatever is written on our heart is worthless.
however, if what is written on our heart is of value, we don't need a law to tell us that to lie is to do evil.

 

[laymen]

well who is following tradition, pretending to be an Israelite in ancient Israel?

and to top that off, you even mention 'Paul's custom'

did you loose Jesus along the way? Paul said to follow Jesus
smh

men do not have to change God's laws. but like the Pharisees, some of them seem to delight in making new ones

the ignorance you speak of, is failing to understand that Jesus has made a new way and He is the final sacrifice. He is our High Priest and no further adherence to law is needed. As it is, He summed up the 10 anyway in what He called 'new' commandments

as has been noted, you are also quite good at twisting what others say . when you folks do this, you throw off the conversation and cause people to attempt to correct your interpretation of what they actually said. this works for you, as in this manner, you constantly delay the actual discussion which should be centered on scripture and instead, corrupt both scripture and people's posts

old old story. worked for Pharisees and works for you guys too

this is a serious departure from truth and honesty

you must not of read my post...Go

well who is following tradition, pretending to be an Israelite in ancient Israel?

and to top that off, you even mention 'Paul's custom'

did you loose Jesus along the way? Paul said to follow Jesus
smh

men do not have to change God's laws. but like the Pharisees, some of them seem to delight in making new ones

the ignorance you speak of, is failing to understand that Jesus has made a new way and He is the final sacrifice. He is our High Priest and no further adherence to law is needed. As it is, He summed up the 10 anyway in what He called 'new' commandments

as has been noted, you are also quite good at twisting what others say . when you folks do this, you throw off the conversation and cause people to attempt to correct your interpretation of what they actually said. this works for you, as in this manner, you constantly delay the actual discussion which should be centered on scripture and instead, corrupt both scripture and people's posts

old old story. worked for Pharisees and works for you guys too

this is a serious departure from truth and honesty

If your going to quot me please put what I say and not what you think I say (the quot is in the above of your staments) . I said it was Christ custom and Paul's as well and Paul said follow me as I follow Christ, anyways your just attacking now. I did not twist any words just asked a question, Two the question was for posthuman.

 

[lenna]

If your going to quot me please put what I say and not what you think I say (the quot is in the above of your staments) . I said it was Christ custom and Paul's as well and Paul said follow me as I follow Christ, anyways your just attacking now. I did not twist any words just asked a question, Two the question was for posthuman.

this is a public forum. if you wish to speak with post only, pm him. you cannot tell people who they should respond to or when

it was Christ's custom because He came to fulfill the law. it is not abolished but fulfilled. we have a new covenant now which does not require any sort of lawkeeping or special days. it is pathetic the way you and others who believe as you do, consistently accuse someone of attacking when they point out your error with the use of scripture

such a drama queen. no one is attacking you

so you would rather follow tradition rather than God? Paul says follow me as I follow Christ it was Christ’s custom to keep the Sabbath it was Paul’s custom so should it be ours. Regardless of who changed it, it was changed only in ignorance. And what I mean by changed is he set the decree. Anyways man cannot change God‘s laws.

you posted the above to posthuman. I responded to what you posted

have you changed your mind now that you see you have misquoted someone?

 

[Dino246]

And so you preach it is fine to lie, cheat , and steal! And teach that I may not tell of the work of Christ for forgiveness, but if feasts, or that we have an OT then it wipes that out. Your teaching is a menace.

Unless you provide a quotation where Lenna said any of this, you are guilty of slander. Your paraphrases are becoming a serious problem.

 

[Dino246]

Why do you think you are so against all scripture?

Are you putting me up for trial so that you may judge me, and what gives you the right to be my judge?

You are the one judging, Blik.

 

[Blik]

my point is that there is abundant evidence that the very believers in The Way who sat at the apostles feet were meeting on what they called the 8th day which is also the 1st, believing it was the day that Christ rose. hundreds of years before the council of Nicene.
i have seen no evidence at all -- and no one has thus far produced it -- to the contrary.

i haven't even seen any evidence that this was controversial until 1863 when the SDA appeared.

in 50AD, Acts 15, believing pharisees sought to force the church to keep the law of Moses. if sabbath is in Acts 15, that's where it is. in the argument of the believing pharisees. ((find ourselves in the scripture?))
the council -- the Holy Spirit -- rejected their opinion.

it's not without a reason that we have a 2 day weekend in the US.

The gentiles had a history, from the time just after Noah, of holding services on Sunday. It was what was done. When these people learned of Christ and were converted, of course they would meet on the day they had met for centuries. You have evidence that they did that. Some were members of the Way. There is also evidence and even scripture telling of Christians meeting on Saturday. That is the day that followers of the one true God always met. They did not consider Christ as a new God but as the Son of the Father, and they thought of them as one. Christ was the promised one.

I don't think Christ would be part of this fuss about the day you go to church. I fuss about that God established a Sabbath, and we need to accept that God did that. I would prefer to go to church on that day, but church meets on Sunday, so I did to when I wasn't house bound. But all this fuss about it is uncalled for and against the way of the Lord. We should be able to make statements of how we see scripture without making such a to do about it, Christ gives us salvation, that is worth a fuss if it is opposed, the day you go to church most certainly is NOT worth a fuss.

 

[Dino246]

The gentiles had a history, from the time just after Noah, of holding services on Sunday. It was what was done. When these people learned of Christ and were converted, of course they would meet on the day they had met for centuries.

None of this is biblical, so you need to provide a source (or several).

I don't think Christ would be part of this fuss about the day you go to church. I fuss about that God established a Sabbath, and we need to accept that God did that.

Nobody is arguing the point.

 

[Blik]

None of this is biblical, so you need to provide a source (or several).



Nobody is arguing the point.

Judging people according to the day they go to church is not biblical, there is no biblical backup for it.

 

[AlmondJoy]

Why do you think you are so against all scripture?

I am not against scripture

I am posting to the people interested in what scripture tells us, you are not so why are you reading posts?

Im Reading posts because I can

You are using them , distorting what they say so by the time you answer it is a testimony against all that is of the Lord.

Wow you really think highly of your posts

It was the Lord who told us to kill animals as a symbol of Christ's giving blood for sin. It was the Lord who told us that we must not do that after Christ gave His blood for our sin. Are you against God?

No, I'm no fool

I have said that the Lord established the Sabbath at creation, do you think that the Lord did not do this?

No I don't believe he did

You speak of obeying man's interpretation of scripture, have you seriously considered doing this?

Nonsensical.....please explain

Are you putting me up for trial so that you may judge me, and what gives you the right to be my judge?

When you post on a public forum you put yourself on trial besides have you forgot what Jesus said?

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Matthew 12:37 KJV