Why Jerusalem?

[eternally-gratefull]

According to revelation, the harlot is a city.
Not a worldwide scope.

https://biblehub.com/revelation/17-18.htm

You skipped over half of my posts, I answered your questions, will you please respond to what I posted?

if not I will determine you are not here to discuss. But here to argue, you got mad earlier when people did not answer you, are you going to do what you demanded others not do to you?

yes it is a city, where does the Vatican sit?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

1. When Satan is cast out he will have no access to heaven. He has access to heaven now
2. when he is cast down, he knows his time is short so he will make war with the woman, but he can not touch her so he goes after her offspring
3. he is given a short time, time, times and half a,time (3.5 years)

these have yet to occure,

why do you suppose he has access to heaven ? That was true of the o. T. But as you see when the son of man was seated he was cast out . Maybe this would help

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s where the throne is in heaven

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you said you were with me to that point when Christ was taken up to heaven and seated then this happened


“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:

for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

until Christ was seated having overcome the world and sat on the throne he was able to appear in heaven to accuse us before God constantly he used the law to accuse

Satan is a spiritual being from heaven . His plot was to destroy Jesus and his mission of salvation. You see where the dragon was trying to destroy the man child ? Son of man ?

this was one of his attempts

“When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.....

And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭2:3-4, 12-13‬ ‭

Satan works through mankind like the lord does . He was trying to destroy the messiah . Later he also took many attempts to tempt , deceive , and finally tried through suffering to break him but Jesus doesn’t break.

when Jesus died , raised up and was taken up to the throne the war in heaven erupted soon after and Satan was cast into the earth.

you see it also in the fact that he begins persecuting those who keep the commandments in the testimony of Christ . He pursued The children of the new covenant that had been set in place . Which Jesus foretold in the gospel it’s why Christians faces such persecution and still do in many parts of the world now .

This subject of revelation is understood a hundred different ways brother , you don’t have to agree with me , I’m not sure it’s a matter of salvation or anything like that just interesting is the book of revelation to me especially when prophecy of the ot is known or changes the whole perception of the revelation . It’s all in prior prophecy really.

what I believe is that Satan was cast out of heaven when Christ was seated and given all authority , he was cast into the earth , and even today his constant presence in the world is seen and known by his influence in mankind and thier deeds , And the state of the world around us there is a time in scripture when Satan would have power , he got it from mankind we had gotten it from God. He took thier dominion and led the world to a curse

 

[eternally-gratefull]

why do you suppose he has access to heaven ? That was true of the o. T. But as you see when the son of man was seated he was cast out . Maybe this would help

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s where the throne is in heaven

“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

you said you were with me to that point when Christ was taken up to heaven and seated then this happened


“And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ:

for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:5, 7-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

until Christ was seated having overcome the world and sat on the throne he was able to appear in heaven to accuse us before God constantly he used the law to accuse

Satan is a spiritual being from heaven . His plot was to destroy Jesus and his mission of salvation. You see where the dragon was trying to destroy the man child ? Son of man ?

this was one of his attempts

“When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.....

And being warned of God in a dream that they should not return to Herod, they departed into their own country another way. And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭2:3-4, 12-13‬ ‭

Satan works through mankind like the lord does . He was trying to destroy the messiah . Later he also took many attempts to tempt , deceive , and finally tried through suffering to break him but Jesus doesn’t break.

when Jesus died , raised up and was taken up to the throne the war in heaven erupted soon after and Satan was cast into the earth.

you see it also in the fact that he begins persecuting those who keep the commandments in the testimony of Christ . He pursued The children of the new covenant that had been set in place . Which Jesus foretold in the gospel it’s why Christians faces such persecution and still do in many parts of the world now .

This subject of revelation is understood a hundred different ways brother , you don’t have to agree with me , I’m not sure it’s a matter of salvation or anything like that just interesting is the book of revelation to me especially when prophecy of the ot is known or changes the whole perception of the revelation . It’s all in prior prophecy really.

what I believe is that Satan was cast out of heaven when Christ was seated and given all authority , he was cast into the earth , and even today his constant presence in the world is seen and known by his influence in mankind and thier deeds , And the state of the world around us there is a time in scripture when Satan would have power , he got it from mankind we had gotten it from God. He took thier dominion and led the world to a curse

What makes you think he is not? when he is cast down he is only given a short time what did that time start?

I know those passages man, I just do not believe they have occurred yet, jesus Is on his throne, and while there, he shuts up the accuser, because the accuser has no ground to stand on, it does not mean he still does not accuse. you think it is bad on earth now. You have not seen anything yet, when Satan is cast down, world war 2 will look like a walk in the park. And world war 2. Who was attacked and not yet protected? You Got it, the woman, she did not flee to the wilderness as commanded, because the end has not yet come, the abomination which makes desolate, where the beast enters the most holy place and declares himself to be the most high is when they are told to run

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You skipped over half of my posts, I answered your questions, will you please respond to what I posted?

if not I will determine you are not here to discuss. But here to argue, you got mad earlier when people did not answer you, are you going to do what you demanded others not do to you?

yes it is a city, where does the Vatican sit?

That's your problem.
The ten horns hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked.

Your problem is the beast and those ten horn attack Jerusalem not Rome.

You can't find one prophet in all of God's prophets who condemn Rome and you can not find one verse to show those nations attacking Rome.

I can provide many showing those nations and the beast attacking Jerusalem which sits on seven hills and reigns over those nations which attack her.
Those same nations have already tried to destroy Israel several times since 1948 and have failed.
Over after 70 years will they be able to destroy the king of babylon.

 

[luigi]

If the great whore Babylon the Great in Revelation is the well favored whore in Nahum 3:4, I then do not see either Rome or Jerusalem meeting the criteria in Nahum 3:1-3. Her policies that rule over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18), the Lord will expose their underlying motives (Nahum 3:5), that will have made the world's inhabitants drunk with her filthy policies (Revelation 17:2).

Nahum 3:4 Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts.

Nahum 3:1 Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies and robbery; the prey departeth not; 2 The noise of a whip, and the noise of the rattling of the wheels, and of the pransing horses, and of the jumping chariots. 3 The horseman lifteth up both the bright sword and the glittering spear: and there is a multitude of slain, and a great number of carcases; and there is none end of their corpses; they stumble upon their corpses:

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Nahum 3:5 Behold, I am against thee, saith the Lord of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame.

Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's your problem.
The ten horns hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked.

Your problem is the beast and those ten horn attack Jerusalem not Rome.

You can't find one prophet in all of God's prophets who condemn Rome and you can not find one verse to show those nations attacking Rome.

I can provide many showing those nations and the beast attacking Jerusalem which sits on seven hills and reigns over those nations which attack her.
Those same nations have already tried to destroy Israel several times since 1948 and have failed.
Over after 70 years will they be able to destroy the king of babylon.

No it’s your problem

The fact I wrote a post Showing just a few reasons why it could not be jerusalem And you have continued to
Ignore it just shows you have nothing to prove me wrong so until you go back and respond to those posts. (I will repost them even) i Am Done

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@Shilohsfoal ... Repost for reasons why it can not
Be jerusalem

1. Jerusalem is the woman who gave birth to Christ (chapter 13)

2. In scripture Babylon is the Harlot to whom Jerusalem commuted sin with not jerusalem itself

3 the harlot is destroyed

4 we are told when the armies are gathered outside Jerusalem they will be destroyed before they can destroy the city by Jesus himself

Just 4 of many reasons

 

[Lanolin]

its because in revelation a new Jerusalem comes down from heaven (having been prepared there) which replaces the 'old' Jerusalem, which is destroyed.
Its not a 'new Rome' or goes anywhere near Rome. Babylon is just another name for the 'old' Jerusalem when she was corrupted. Revelation goes on to say Behold I make all things new. I think its Jerusalem its referring to here.

There are huge markets in Jerusalem still selling all sorts of merchandise in souks

for those of us reading today revelations symbolic language can be applied to any big capital city as all cities have this trading from which people get rich.

I mean sure you can nominate Rome, the Vatican or any money hungry big city that you dont like especially. Lots of contenders. New York, Paris, London, Tokyo, Las Vegas, Sydney Auckland...

Just because you dont actually live in Jerusalem doesnt mean that God didnt have anything to say about it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

@Shilohsfoal why have you yet to answer this response about the witnesses living dead in the street for 2 days when you claimed it proved the city was destroyed

um 2 people? That’s not a whole city those are the two witnesses

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If the great whore Babylon the Great in Revelation is the well favored whore in Nahum 3:4, I then do not see either Rome or Jerusalem meeting the criteria in Nahum 3:1-3. Her policies that rule over the kings of the earth (Revelation 17:18), the Lord will expose their underlying motives (Nahum 3:5), that will have made the world's inhabitants drunk with her filthy policies (Revelation 17:2).

Nahum 3:4 Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the wellfavoured harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts.

Nahum 3:1 Woe to the bloody city! it is all full of lies and robbery; the prey departeth not; 2 The noise of a whip, and the noise of the rattling of the wheels, and of the pransing horses, and of the jumping chariots. 3 The horseman lifteth up both the bright sword and the glittering spear: and there is a multitude of slain, and a great number of carcases; and there is none end of their corpses; they stumble upon their corpses:

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Nahum 3:5 Behold, I am against thee, saith the Lord of hosts; and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will shew the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame.

Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Yes this system of which many believe is today the catholic church

 

[eternally-gratefull]

its because in revelation a new Jerusalem comes down from heaven (having been prepared there) which replaces the 'old' Jerusalem, which is destroyed.
Its not a 'new Rome' or goes anywhere near Rome. Babylon is just another name for the 'old' Jerusalem when she was corrupted. Revelation goes on to say Behold I make all things new. I think its Jerusalem its referring to here.

There are huge markets in Jerusalem still selling all sorts of merchandise in souks

for those of us reading today revelations symbolic language can be applied to any big capital city as all cities have this trading from which people get rich.

I mean sure you can nominate Rome, the Vatican or any money hungry big city that you dont like especially. Lots of contenders. New York, Paris, London, Tokyo, Las Vegas, Sydney Auckland...

Just because you dont actually live in Jerusalem doesnt mean that God didnt have anything to say about it.

Jerusalem does not fit all the characteristics. Buying and selling us just one. And believe me. Merchants are not getting rich selling stuff in just jerusalem

 

[Lanolin]

Jerusalem means 'city of peace' and was built on seven hills, the not famous being mount zion.

It has been the most contested and fought over city in the world...kings had been fighting over her..Crusades anyone?
The seat of the Israelite kingdom has always been centred in Jerusalem. And pretty much all her earthly kings have fornicated or been idolatrous, with only a few exceptions.

we have a heavenly King, Lord Jesus.

Rome is only a red herring, but history can only repeat for those who fail to see it.

 

[luigi]

Yes this system of which many believe is today the catholic church

If you believe the whore is the Catholic Church, then please explain how the Catholic church meets all the criteria, in which she rules over all the world's kingdoms with her filthy policies, and thereby is responsible for the deaths of all the prophets and saints and all who are slain upon the earth (Revelation 18:24). It's a particular cities economic policies which all the kings of the earth are subject to.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

@Shilohsfoal why have you yet to answer this response about the witnesses living dead in the street for 2 days when you claimed it proved the city was destroyed

um 2 people? That’s not a whole city those are the two witnesses

If you pay attention to the text, those two witnesses are defending the city.

You want to know what happens when the harlots protectors are dead and thier enemies dance on thier dead bodies?

https://biblehub.com/zechariah/14-2.htm

Note, the beast takes the city. The women are raped. One third dead,others taken captive.
Would you like to read even more,?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

What makes you think he is not? when he is cast down he is only given a short time what did that time start?

I know those passages man, I just do not believe they have occurred yet, jesus Is on his throne, and while there, he shuts up the accuser, because the accuser has no ground to stand on, it does not mean he still does not accuse. you think it is bad on earth now. You have not seen anything yet, when Satan is cast down, world war 2 will look like a walk in the park. And world war 2. Who was attacked and not yet protected? You Got it, the woman, she did not flee to the wilderness as commanded, because the end has not yet come, the abomination which makes desolate, where the beast enters the most holy place and declares himself to be the most high is when they are told to run

“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭3:8-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we don’t measure time like God does a thousand years may pass as a day in his time. a short time “ time times and a half time” is according to Gods time not ours

again bro you don’t have to agree I have no issue with someone not agreeing with me . I think revelation gets a lot of different interpretations . I look at it with other prophecy and it just fits to perfectly on my own mind .

you know how Christ was taken to heaven and sat on the throne ? That is a visual showing this which is on earth it is showing the changing of authority from the book of the law , to Christ and his word .

this was declared after his resurrection

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The throne he was taken to is the seat of all authority. When the son is taken up to the throne it signifies for us the changing of the covenant.


Scripture is what leads me to believe if you look in revelation from that time Satan is on earth formed the beast and together they persecuted Gods people killing many that’s the church on earth that began with the destruction of Jerusalem and the horrors that followed committed by the Roman Empire upon Christians and Jews

that’s who the children are that he declares war on he doesn’t only war with the woman he declares war on the children of the new covenant who have the testimony of Christ that is indeed the gospel I’m sure you would agree about that one point.

it is really enlightening to look at the history of the church and Jews beginning about 67 ad and see satans work clearly

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Jerusalem does not fit all the characteristics. Buying and selling us just one. And believe me. Merchants are not getting rich selling stuff in just jerusalem

Israel(Jerusalem) is far better off than Italy(Rome).

Italy is broke and Israel is booming.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

@Shilohsfoal why have you yet to answer this response about the witnesses living dead in the street for 2 days when you claimed it proved the city was destroyed

um 2 people? That’s not a whole city those are the two witnesses

Now, why have you avoided showing all of us where the beast kills anyone in Rome?
Is it because the ten horns are not concerned with Rome?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Jerusalem means 'city of peace' and was built on seven hills, the not famous being mount zion.

It has been the most contested and fought over city in the world...kings had been fighting over her..Crusades anyone?
The seat of the Israelite kingdom has always been centred in Jerusalem. And pretty much all her earthly kings have fornicated or been idolatrous, with only a few exceptions.

we have a heavenly King, Lord Jesus.

Rome is only a red herring, but history can only repeat for those who fail to see it.

True, but it is not the only city on 7 hills, and has never been called babylon, that would make her the ruling queen of pagan system of worship.

she does NT fit the characteristics

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Now, why have you avoided showing all of us where the beast kills anyone in Rome?
Is it because the ten horns are not concerned with Rome?

“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them:

and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭13:4, 7-9‬ ‭

“Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you.

Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭5:6-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we’re in a war and we have a battle gear prepared for us of well put it on


“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭6:11-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you believe the whore is the Catholic Church, then please explain how the Catholic church meets all the criteria, in which she rules over all the world's kingdoms with her filthy policies, and thereby is responsible for the deaths of all the prophets and saints and all who are slain upon the earth (Revelation 18:24). It's a particular cities economic policies which all the kings of the earth are subject to.

Revelation 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Who is the harlot?

1. Bears the representation of a harlot (rev 17: 1-2, 15 - 16). It claimed to be christ's bride, but had fallen from its pure purpose and had become a harlot.(please note a harlot is a false wife, or tries to take the place of the wife)

jerusalem does not fit this, (Jerusalem is currently a city of three religions, Christianity being one of the, and it is the Catholic Church does, and only one f these religions claims to be the bride of Christ

2. a leader in ecclesiastical affairs. (rev 17 : 2. 5). Spiritual fornication in scripture is an adherance to a false religious system.

the Roman Catholic Church has leadership worldwide. Jerusalem is not a leader in any ecclesiastical affairs


3. the system is a leader in political affairs (rev 17:3) it is seen to be controlling the beast for which it sits.

the roman church has been a leader of political affairs since it was first started in the 300s, in fact at that time, it ruled the world. Even today. Many nations are influenced by the church, the church even has ambassadors to most countries, again, does not fit Jerusalem, which is a divided city,

4 the system has become very rich and influential (rev 17: 4)

jerusalem rich? The Catholic Church financially by itself has more money than most nations on earth. Jerusalem right? Since when

5. The system represents the stage of development of christiondom that was hithertoo unrevieled (rev 17: 5) in that it was called the "mystery"

jerusalem christian? Since when?

the Catholic Church looks nothing like the churches in acts or the epistles, it would have been a mystery tom1st century believers

6. the system has been a great persecutor of the saints. (rev 17: 6)

jerusalem killed how many saints? Since when? Where as rome has killed millions, anyone who did not bow to her for centuries were executed as heretics

7. the system is an organised system of worldwide scope (rev 17 : 15)

jerusalem? Jerusalem payed in ruins for years, even today it is not a system it is a city

the Roman church on the other hand, has influence across the entire globe, she is even trying to make peace with Islam, which further shows her evil

8. The system will be destroyed by the beast, the head of the roman coalition, so that his supremace may not be threatened (rev 17: 16 - 17 )

jerusalem is no threat to anyone, on a world wide level, the church however, will be decieved, but knows enough scripture when they start to see prophecy unfold literally will weild enough worldwide power to be a major threat.