Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

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AlmondJoy

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Oct 31, 2020
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Broken fellowship between believers is certainly a possibility, but not between God and His children.

You wrote:



You are placing your own interpretations into God's word. If what you say is true, man can NEVER have fellowship with God. Or might - but only briefly during the day, or the course of a lifetime.

The Bible says that if you know to do good but do not do it - it is sin. Do you watch movies? Go to an amusement park? Read secular novels? Listen to secular music? Do you do any number of things when your time could be better spent reading the Bible or witnessing to the lost?

If so, you are SINNING. And thus, by your reasoning, be out of fellowship with God. So, how many times a day do you have a sinful thought, or commit a sinful act? 10? 30? 50? 100 times? Thus, according to you, the average Christian must bounce in and out of fellowship with God like a yo-yo throughout the day.

But here's the main reason why we can never be out of fellowship with God:

Ready?

Christians have ZERO sins attributed to them because the shed blood of Jesus cleansed us from ALL unrighteousness. It's the very reason believes are called "holy", "perfect", and "righteous" in scripture. We have the very righteousness of Jesus, as He has taken all sin from us. Sin separates us from God? Yes, indeed. But since we have no sins reckoned to our account, there is NOTHING that separates us from God.
If a Christian has "zero sins attributed to them" as you say

When a Christian tells a lie or commits murder etc.... as long as your "a christian" are those not sin? Does God redefine those actions depending on who is committing them?
 

OIC1965

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I'm having more or less the same discussion I have with calvinists. They use the same verses as your doing?
Calvinists, Arminians, IFB, and just about everyone else holds that Jesus is talking about Gentiles in Matthew 10:16. Your view is an outlier.
 

OIC1965

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Israel was given a one year extension after the cross, as prophesied by Jesus in Luke 13:6-9, see vs 8-9 especially.

That is why Jesus did not correct the 11 when they asked him the final question about the kingdom being restored to Israel, before he ascended in Acts 1:6. Israel was still God's favored nation then and had a chance to repent and be baptized under the gospel of the kingdom.

That one year period expired around the time Stephen was stoned, in Acts 7.
Matthew 28:18-20.
 

OIC1965

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Peter was as astonished as the rest of the Jewish believers when that happened. (Acts 10:45).

That was the reason why in Acts 11, when the other Jewish believers who were not there asked him why he ate with gentiles, he did not refer them back to the Great Commission given in Matt 28. He referred back to what happened in Acts 10 instead.

For good reason, everyone who understood Jesus at Matt 28 understood that Jesus was not referring to preaching the gospel of the kingdom to the gentiles immediately, as stated in Matthew 10:5.
Matthew 10 is in a different context.
 

OIC1965

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You know I haven’t seen so much bickering amongst Christians as I have in here. Paul would write a letter to you if he was still alive. He would tell you what he told the corinthians. To know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. God saves, keeps, and will one day deliver his children.
Only some don’t believe God keeps. At all. Or they believe He only keeps you if you have a certain bloodline.
 

OIC1965

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You know I haven’t seen so much bickering amongst Christians as I have in here. Paul would write a letter to you if he was still alive. He would tell you what he told the corinthians. To know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. God saves, keeps, and will one day deliver his children.
There was conflict between Paul and the Judaizers, John and Marcion, etc too.

Would you hold that God has one program for one part of Christ’s body and a different program for another

Ie. Christ is a shepherd to and only shepherds Jewish Christians but not Gentile Christians?
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Matthew 28:18-20.
As I have already said to you, you are not understanding how the apostles understood this instruction during that period in early Acts.

And in Acts, after Jesus gave the so called "Great Commission", Peter understood that aspect completely, that was why he remarked to Cornelius the following in Acts 10

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Question: From this statement by Peter, did he really believed that the GC was for the whole world? What did Jesus commanded to them, in Matthew 10:5, regarding preaching to the Gentiles?

Peter had never thought in his life of going to the Gentiles, which only demonstrates that the Great Commission given to them (the Twelve) does not include the Gentile people. For if Jesus intended that they should make disciples among the Gentiles, Peter would have known it and would have not said to Cornelius and family, “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile.”

The special revelation that Peter saw made him to say, “So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection.” Had not God given him this vision he would have objected going to a Gentile family, which again demonstrates that the Great Commission, as clear as it was to the disciples, did not include the command to go to the Gentiles.

Had Jesus intended that they should go to the Gentiles, Peter would not need to say in Acts 10:34,35, “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.” He does not need to say that if in the first place they were commanded to go to the Gentiles. But as it is, and as Peter and company understood it, the Great Commission was not including the Gentiles.
 

OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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As I have already said to you, you are not understanding how the apostles understood this instruction during that period in early Acts.

And in Acts, after Jesus gave the so called "Great Commission", Peter understood that aspect completely, that was why he remarked to Cornelius the following in Acts 10

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Question: From this statement by Peter, did he really believed that the GC was for the whole world? What did Jesus commanded to them, in Matthew 10:5, regarding preaching to the Gentiles?

Peter had never thought in his life of going to the Gentiles, which only demonstrates that the Great Commission given to them (the Twelve) does not include the Gentile people. For if Jesus intended that they should make disciples among the Gentiles, Peter would have known it and would have not said to Cornelius and family, “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile.”

The special revelation that Peter saw made him to say, “So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection.” Had not God given him this vision he would have objected going to a Gentile family, which again demonstrates that the Great Commission, as clear as it was to the disciples, did not include the command to go to the Gentiles.

Had Jesus intended that they should go to the Gentiles, Peter would not need to say in Acts 10:34,35, “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.” He does not need to say that if in the first place they were commanded to go to the Gentiles. But as it is, and as Peter and company understood it, the Great Commission was not including the Gentiles.
Is it possible that the apostles didn’t understand Jesus words, but that Jesus actually meant what He said?

After all, Paul had to rebuke Peter for error in Galatians, right?
 

OIC1965

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Sep 19, 2020
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As I have already said to you, you are not understanding how the apostles understood this instruction during that period in early Acts.

And in Acts, after Jesus gave the so called "Great Commission", Peter understood that aspect completely, that was why he remarked to Cornelius the following in Acts 10

28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

Question: From this statement by Peter, did he really believed that the GC was for the whole world? What did Jesus commanded to them, in Matthew 10:5, regarding preaching to the Gentiles?

Peter had never thought in his life of going to the Gentiles, which only demonstrates that the Great Commission given to them (the Twelve) does not include the Gentile people. For if Jesus intended that they should make disciples among the Gentiles, Peter would have known it and would have not said to Cornelius and family, “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with or visit a Gentile.”

The special revelation that Peter saw made him to say, “So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection.” Had not God given him this vision he would have objected going to a Gentile family, which again demonstrates that the Great Commission, as clear as it was to the disciples, did not include the command to go to the Gentiles.

Had Jesus intended that they should go to the Gentiles, Peter would not need to say in Acts 10:34,35, “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.” He does not need to say that if in the first place they were commanded to go to the Gentiles. But as it is, and as Peter and company understood it, the Great Commission was not including the Gentiles.
What is this 1 year probation for Jews? God NEVER STOPPED saving Jews. And God always intended to save Gentiles.
 

OIC1965

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Yes amen, the question we are discussing now is, was that also how James and the other apostles understood in the Acts time period?
They did not understand because of their imperfection of knowledge and their anti Gentile bias at first. The Bible is infallible and perfect, but the men who God used made mistakes. ( just not when they were writing the Bible).
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Is it possible that the apostles didn’t understand Jesus words, but that Jesus actually meant what He said?

After all, Paul had to rebuke Peter for error in Galatians, right?
The 11 spent 40 days with the resurrected Christ in acts 1 to learn about the kingdom of God.

I would trust that they, being Jews, understood more clearly about the ot prophetic timetable, than non Jews like all of us would,
 

AlmondJoy

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Oct 31, 2020
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I read one comment on here that said because he was a Christian "he couldn't go to hell if he wanted to"

i hope nobody on here really believes this....God will never force us to love him and serve him. If you choose to backslid you most certainly can just like many did in the new testament.

We must endure until the end!!

But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God. And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Acts 5:3‭-‬5
 

CharliRenee

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For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.
Romans 2:28‭-‬29 ESV

There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. For God shows no partiality.
Romans 2:9‭-‬11 ESV


You are everything Lord, thank you for You are my Shepherd and I am so grateful. All praise and Glory to You!
 

OIC1965

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The Acts of the Apostles book is a continuation of the Book of Luke. It is the doctrine Jesus taught being carried forth. Hence, Acts (Actions) of the Apostles.
Yes. Not all historical events in a historical book are not intended to build doctrines on. They record events that happened, as well as doctrine.

The events recorded are not always doctrinal statements.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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What is this 1 year probation for Jews? God NEVER STOPPED saving Jews. And God always intended to save Gentiles.
I said the nation Israel was given a year, not Jews.

The nation Israel has now fallen in the eyes of God (Romans 11:11)

Now all Jews and gentiles are equal in the eyes of God, we are now saved thru the fall of Israel the nation.
 

OIC1965

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All this started because through grace ordained that me saying that Jesus loses none of His sheep makes me a Calvinist.

Just so we know what throughfaith is actually taking issue with, beyond the smokescreens being put up.

Let’s leave it at that.
 

OIC1965

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I said the nation Israel was given a year, not Jews.

The nation Israel has now fallen in the eyes of God (Romans 11:11)

Now all Jews and gentiles are equal in the eyes of God, we are now saved thru the fall of Israel the nation.
What does the inclusion of the Gentiles have to do with that? God always intended to include the Gentiles. Always.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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What does the inclusion of the Gentiles have to do with that? God always intended to include the Gentiles. Always.
Do you agree, in the first place, that Israel the nation was to be saved first, before the gentiles, as Zechariah 8 prophesied?
 

OIC1965

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Do you agree, in the first place, that Israel the nation was to be saved first, before the gentiles, as Zechariah 8 prophesied?
The Gospel was to go to the Jews first. It did. After the resurrection, Jesus said all nations now.

Since God has perfect Omniscience, He never decreed that the nation of Israel would be saved in the First Century. If He had foreknown it, it would have happened. In the First century. But God was not waiting to see. He foreknows outcomes perfectly

There will be a time when the partial temporary blindness will be removed. But it was never stated by God that it would happen in the First Century.

And God was not waiting to find out. Open theism is not biblical.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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The Gospel was to go to the Jews first. It did. After the resurrection, Jesus said all nations now.

Since God has perfect Omniscience, He never decreed that the nation of Israel would be saved in the First Century. If He had foreknown it, it would have happened.

God does not guess.
How did Jesus respond in acts 1:7 to that final question about Israel? Did he rebuked them for still only thinking of Israel the nation, at that point in time?

You don’t believe ominisicence is compatible with free choice? God did not meant what he said in Zechariah 8?