The Post Tribulation Rapture

[Truth7t7]

Touche. Read the story of Job, the whole book, and learn what God allows Satan to do to those he loves, through trials, tests and tribulations. But they who love God, always endures, and do not slander God.

I dont see Jobs trials in Revelation for the church, I see a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, and a wicked world and Antichrist being tormented by (Two Witnesses) in plagues as Often as they will.

Hebrews weren't running around scared in Egypt, nor did the plagues come upon them, its gonna be a replay in the future tribulation.

 

[BenjaminN]

You have the (Two Witnesses) bringing every plague seen in the book of Revelation upon the Beast and his Kingdom, and you ask how the church will get food?

The wicked evil people will worship at the feet of the believers because of their torment in plagues, and you ask where believers get food, Big Smiles!

Revelation 3:9KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Revelation 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Luke 21:17-19KJV
17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
19 In your patience possess ye your souls

It would have to be through manna from heaven, or 'illegally' scavenge from nature (owned by the beast's financial system), as it will not be from the supermarket, where those with the mark of the beast will be getting it. If you are completely excluded from the complete financial system of this world (not allowed to buy or sell), where do you get your food from, where all natural resources is allocated to the beast's financial system?

 

[Truth7t7]

It would have to be through manna from heaven, or 'illegally' scavenge from nature (owned by the beast's financial system), as it will not be from the supermarket, where those with the mark of the beast will be getting it. If you are completely excluded from the complete financial system of this world (not allowed to buy or sell), where do you get your food from, where all natural resources is allocated to the beast's financial system?

Post scripture that supports the claim Christian's are (Excluded) from a financial system?

Yes the church in the wilderness in Israel during the tribulation, will be fed as in the days of old, Manna from Heaven!

Does that represent a church, running around scared, no!

God is in control!

The Wicked World Watches In Astonishment!

Micah 7:12-17KJV
12 In that day also he shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river, and from sea to sea, and from mountain to mountain.
13 Notwithstanding the land shall be desolate because of them that dwell therein, for the fruit of their doings.
14 Feed thy people with thy rod, the flock of thine heritage, which dwell solitarily in the wood, in the midst of Carmel: let them feed in Bashan and Gilead, as in the days of old.
15 According to the days of thy coming out of the land of Egypt will I shew unto him marvellous things.
16 The nations shall see and be confounded at all their might: they shall lay their hand upon their mouth, their ears shall be deaf.
17 They shall lick the dust like a serpent, they shall move out of their holes like worms of the earth: they shall be afraid of the Lord our God, and shall fear because of thee.

 

[BenjaminN]

Post scripture that supports the claim Christian's are (Excluded) from a financial system?

Revelation 13 (ESV)

15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 13 (ESV)

15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain. 16 Also it causes all, both small and great, both rich and poor, both free and slave, to be marked on the right hand or the forehead, 17 so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name. 18 This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.

As my KJV reads, the Antichrist desires to see all Christian's killed (Should) not (Shall) as we know this isnt going to happen to the entire church on earth.

One again (Might) not buy or sell, not (Shall) not buy or sell

It will be the Antichrist desire, but it ain't gonna happen, otherwise (Shall) would be the word used.

The focus of the tribulation is on Jerusalem

Revelation 13:15-17KJV
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[BenjaminN]

The great tribulation immediately prior to the rapture, is the final test of believers love of worshipping God, as opposed to love of preserving self.

 

[BenjaminN]

As my KJV reads, the Antichrist desires to see all Christian's killed (Should) not (Shall) as we know this isnt going to happen to the entire church on earth.

One again (Might) not buy or sell, not (Shall) not buy or sell

It will be the Antichrist desire, but it ain't gonna happen, otherwise (Shall) would be the word used.

The focus of the tribulation is on Jerusalem

Revelation 13:15-17KJV
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

I'll check the Greek.

 

[BenjaminN]

As my KJV reads, the Antichrist desires to see all Christian's killed (Should) not (Shall) as we know this isnt going to happen to the entire church on earth.

One again (Might) not buy or sell, not (Shall) not buy or sell

It will be the Antichrist desire, but it ain't gonna happen, otherwise (Shall) would be the word used.

The focus of the tribulation is on Jerusalem

Revelation 13:15-17KJV
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Revelation 13:15-17 (Tischendorf NT)

15 καὶ ἐδόθη αὐτῷ δοῦναι πνεῦμα τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου, ἵνα καὶ λαλήσῃ ἡ εἰκὼν τοῦ θηρίου καὶ ποιήσῃ ὅσοι ἐὰν μὴ προσκυνήσουσιν τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου ἀποκτανθῶσιν. 16 καὶ ποιεῖ πάντας, τοὺς μικροὺς καὶ τοὺς μεγάλους, καὶ τοὺς πλουσίους καὶ τοὺς πτωχούς, καὶ τοὺς ἐλευθέρους καὶ τοὺς δούλους, ἵνα δῶσιν αὐτοῖς χάραγμα ἐπὶ τῆς χειρὸς αὐτῶν τῆς δεξιᾶς ἢ ἐπὶ τὸ μέτωπον αὐτῶν, 17 ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα, τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ.

 

[BenjaminN]

Truth7t7 said:
As my KJV reads, the Antichrist desires to see all Christian's killed (Should) not (Shall) as we know this isnt going to happen to the entire church on earth.

One again (Might) not buy or sell, not (Shall) not buy or sell

It will be the Antichrist desire, but it ain't gonna happen, otherwise (Shall) would be the word used.

The focus of the tribulation is on Jerusalem

Revelation 13:15-17KJV
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

BenjaminN said:
I'll check the Greek.

Revelation 13:15-17 (Tischendorf NT)

15 καὶ ἐδόθη αὐτῷ δοῦναι πνεῦμα τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου, ἵνα καὶ λαλήσῃ ἡ εἰκὼν τοῦ θηρίου καὶ ποιήσῃ ὅσοι ἐὰν μὴ προσκυνήσουσιν τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου ἀποκτανθῶσιν. 16 καὶ ποιεῖ πάντας, τοὺς μικροὺς καὶ τοὺς μεγάλους, καὶ τοὺς πλουσίους καὶ τοὺς πτωχούς, καὶ τοὺς ἐλευθέρους καὶ τοὺς δούλους, ἵνα δῶσιν αὐτοῖς χάραγμα ἐπὶ τῆς χειρὸς αὐτῶν τῆς δεξιᾶς ἢ ἐπὶ τὸ μέτωπον αὐτῶν, 17 ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα, τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ.

Google translate:

15 and given aftῷ Give spirit tῇ image of the beast, fiber and lalisῃ the image of the beast and those who, not poiisῃ proskynisousin tῇ image of the beast apoktanthosin. 16 and which everywhere, both small and large, and the rich and poor, and the self and slaves fiber dosin them will mark on the hand thereof of the right-hand or the forehead thereof, 17 lest the dynitai market (buy or sell) or polisai Et nON who has the mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name.(

Got a better translation?

 

[JaumeJ]

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[BenjaminN]

As my KJV reads, the Antichrist desires to see all Christian's killed (Should) not (Shall) as we know this isnt going to happen to the entire church on earth.

One again (Might) not buy or sell, not (Shall) not buy or sell

It will be the Antichrist desire, but it ain't gonna happen, otherwise (Shall) would be the word used.

The focus of the tribulation is on Jerusalem

Revelation 13:15-17KJV
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

should be killed. - Strongs number 615: to kill outright; figuratively to destroy; put to death kill slay

might - Strongs number 1410: Of uncertain affinity; to be able or possible; - be able can (do + -not) could may might be possible be of power

It will be against his laws to buy or sell, whether you will be able to maybe might buy or sell, is a different story. You would definitely not be able to legitimately under his rule, go into your local supermarket to buy or sell.

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 13:15-17 (Tischendorf NT)

15 καὶ ἐδόθη αὐτῷ δοῦναι πνεῦμα τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου, ἵνα καὶ λαλήσῃ ἡ εἰκὼν τοῦ θηρίου καὶ ποιήσῃ ὅσοι ἐὰν μὴ προσκυνήσουσιν τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου ἀποκτανθῶσιν. 16 καὶ ποιεῖ πάντας, τοὺς μικροὺς καὶ τοὺς μεγάλους, καὶ τοὺς πλουσίους καὶ τοὺς πτωχούς, καὶ τοὺς ἐλευθέρους καὶ τοὺς δούλους, ἵνα δῶσιν αὐτοῖς χάραγμα ἐπὶ τῆς χειρὸς αὐτῶν τῆς δεξιᾶς ἢ ἐπὶ τὸ μέτωπον αὐτῶν, 17 ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα, τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ.

Google translate:

15 and given aftῷ Give spirit tῇ image of the beast, fiber and lalisῃ the image of the beast and those who, not poiisῃ proskynisousin tῇ image of the beast apoktanthosin. 16 and which everywhere, both small and large, and the rich and poor, and the self and slaves fiber dosin them will mark on the hand thereof of the right-hand or the forehead thereof, 17 lest the dynitai market (buy or sell) or polisai Et nON who has the mark, the name of the beast or the number of his name.(

Got a better translation?

The KJV is in the lineage of the (Textus Receptus) and the foundation of the great bible's, Tyndale, Geneva, Coverdale, King James, Etc

Its apparent that you are unaware of Tischendorf and the question surrounding the (Alexandrian Text Type)

Your Tischendorff was on a political campaign, and he earned his (Honary) rewards in his discovery of the Sinaticus manuscript.

The Alexandrian Text is the 1%< minority of Manuscript evidence, that is from the corrupt schools of Clement, Origen, Arius,

Your ESV follows these corrupt Greek manuscripts,the church never used or received this text, it was localised to Egypt

It was popularized in the Novum Testamentum Graece produced by (Kurt Aland) and his wife Barbara, that Kurt ran off with 22 years younger from his college classroom, and divorced his wife Ingeborg and children.
Throw in Roman Catholic Jesuit Cardinal and homosexual union supporter (Carlo Maria Martini)

They created the greek text that supports the NIV, ESV, NASB, ETC

Lobegott Friedrich Constantin (von) Tischendorf (18 January 1815 – 7 December 1874) was a world-leading biblical scholar in his time. In 1844, he discovered the world's oldest and most complete Bible, dated to around the mid-4th century and called Codex Sinaiticus, after the St. Catherine's Monastery at Mt. Sinai, where Tischendorf discovered it. Tischendorf was made an Honorary Doctor by Oxford University on 16 March 1865, and an Honorary Doctor by Cambridge University on 9 March 1865 following this find of the century.[1] While a student gaining his academic degree in the 1840s, he earned international recognition when he deciphered the Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus, a 5th-century Greek manuscript of the New Testament.

 

[Truth7t7]

should be killed. - Strongs number 615: to kill outright; figuratively to destroy; put to death kill slay

might - Strongs number 1410: Of uncertain affinity; to be able or possible; - be able can (do + -not) could may might be possible be of power

It will be against his laws to buy or sell, whether you will be able to maybe might buy or sell, is a different story. You would definitely not be able to legitimately under his rule, go into your local supermarket to buy or sell.

I disagree, Should and Might aren't Shall, it will be his desire, not a factual truth, we disagree.

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 13:15-17 (Tischendorf NT)

15 καὶ ἐδόθη αὐτῷ δοῦναι πνεῦμα τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου, ἵνα καὶ λαλήσῃ ἡ εἰκὼν τοῦ θηρίου καὶ ποιήσῃ ὅσοι ἐὰν μὴ προσκυνήσουσιν τῇ εἰκόνι τοῦ θηρίου ἀποκτανθῶσιν. 16 καὶ ποιεῖ πάντας, τοὺς μικροὺς καὶ τοὺς μεγάλους, καὶ τοὺς πλουσίους καὶ τοὺς πτωχούς, καὶ τοὺς ἐλευθέρους καὶ τοὺς δούλους, ἵνα δῶσιν αὐτοῖς χάραγμα ἐπὶ τῆς χειρὸς αὐτῶν τῆς δεξιᾶς ἢ ἐπὶ τὸ μέτωπον αὐτῶν, 17 ἵνα μή τις δύνηται ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι εἰ μὴ ὁ ἔχων τὸ χάραγμα, τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ θηρίου ἢ τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ ὀνόματος αὐτοῦ.

Tischendorff was a political lobbyist of the 19th century, the Honary Doctorate, AKA the Phony!

 

[BenjaminN]

Tischendorff was a political lobbyist of the 19th century, the Honary Doctorate, AKA the Phony!

Which Greek version of the New Testament is the oldest?

 

[BenjaminN]

I disagree, Should and Might aren't Shall, it will be his desire, not a factual truth, we disagree.

I do not know what will become of social security, 401k's or pension funds under the rule of the beast. I do not think they will pay out to those who do not receive his mark, to receive (all electronically controlled) payments, and make (all electronically controlled) payments.

 

[Truth7t7]

The great tribulation immediately prior to the rapture, is the final test of believers love of worshipping God, as opposed to love of preserving self.

The great tribulation will be the final test in torment of the wicked, prior to their judgement in the lake if fire, the (Two Witnesses) will rule in the tribulation, bringing all plagues upon the Beast and his kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against the Pharaoh of Egypt

Did the plagues of Egypt fall upon the Hebrews, (No)

Were the Hebrews running around, in fear of Pharaoh, (No)

Its gonna be a replay during the tribulation, the Lord Jesus Christ is in control!

The (Two Witnesses) All Plagues As Often As They Will!

Gods In Control, Read It!

Revelation 11:6KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

Gods In Control, Read It!

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Gods In Control, Read It!

Revelation 16:2-10KJV
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

 

[GaryA]

The Two Witnesses are in control during the tribulation, ...

The time of the two witnesses is not during the tribulation, but after it.

Matthew 24:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The time of the two witnesses coincides with verse 29. They are the ones who cause these things to happen. This is a 3.5-year span of time that takes place "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" (which is defined in verse 21). THEN - after that - "And then shall appear ..." (verse 30).

Verse 29 - the Two Witnesses
Verse 30 - Jesus! (Second Coming)
Verse 31 - Resurrection / Rapture

Look closely at the Revelation scripture concerning the Two Witnesses and the Trumpet Events. Compare it to the description above in verse 29. Also, pay particularly close attention to everything said with regard to the bottomless pit.

 

[Truth7t7]

The time of the two witnesses is not during the tribulation, but after it.

Matthew 24:

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The time of the two witnesses coincides with verse 29. They are the ones who cause these things to happen. This is a 3.5-year span of time that takes place "Immediately after the tribulation of those days" (which is defined in verse 21). THEN - after that - "And then shall appear ..." (verse 30).

Verse 29 - the Two Witnesses
Verse 30 - Jesus! (Second Coming)
Verse 31 - Resurrection / Rapture

Look closely at the Revelation scripture concerning the Two Witnesses and the Trumpet Events. Compare it to the description above in verse 29. Also, pay particularly close attention to everything said with regard to the bottomless pit.

I strongly disagree, the two witnesses will be given power for 42 months/1260 days, this is the same time of (The Beast) in Rev 13:5 his 42 months

The (Two Witnesses) will be literal prophets returned, that will bring literal plagues, and will be literally killed, and lay in a literal street in Jerusalem, as they are called to heaven literally as the world watches, the 2nd woe is past, as the 3rd woe unfolds quickly in the 7th Trump/Angel sounding, in the second coming of Jesus Christ in final judgement and end of this world.

Revelation 11:3-19KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

 

[Truth7t7]

Sorry I tried to change my post... yet you only have 5 min.

I get confused. Well we read Matt 24:31/Mark 13:27. So it reads "He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call." Now in Thes says "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first."

So.. seems Christ forgot He the lord Himself will descent from heaven with a shout, with a voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. Yeah.. those to don't match.. Yet some say "see its the same thing". It not even close. Shout, voice trumpet of GOD is left out. The other He is sending His angels..and no dead rising 1st. No shout no voice of an archangel. One says loud trumpet call the other trumpet of God the dead in Christ will be the fist to rise.

And some believe those two are the same? What Christ forgot parts or the Holy Spirit through Paul did? The fact Paul said "We which remain". Then knowing there was no NT when Christ was talking to only the Jews. They were all still doing the LAW. To also read stating with Chapter 4 or Rev the Church is not talked about. We read as if its all about Israel. That 70th week. Not the world owes God but Israel. And who is out there preaching now? Not the Church but the 144000.

You see the same Lord in the air

You see a Trump in both readings

You see a resurrection and Catching up and gathering of elect in both readings

Do you suggest gathering of elect isnt the resurrection and Catching up?

Its through this very error, that dispensationalism try's desperately to create two different events, in the creation of a false pre-trib rapture

To deny the two readings are exactly the same event is willful bias in my opinion, in creating a pre-trib rapture, found no place in scripture.