Why Doesn't Anyone Talk About Believers Dating Unequally Yoked Believers?

[seoulsearch]

I find it to be an interesting topic because you can easily see in these situations how Christian marriages can fall into despair, but no one seems to talk about what the solutions should be to these problems.

Instead, people are just told that God hates divorce and they are to stay together until death do they part -- which I'm not trying to contest at all -- but you can see how miserable people might be. And these are just "simple" examples -- we haven't even begun to talk about things like sex, raising the kids (especially through the teenage/young adult years,) taking care of ailing family members, and a the myriad of challenges a married couple will have to learn to face together.

I agree that for some, choosing never to marry avoids a lot of issues (the Bible even tells us this.) But for others, God seems to very clearly call them to marry, and telling them not to would be advising them to disobey God. I know this is an extreme example, but God clearly told Joseph, "Do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife."

I just wish there was more support within the church community for helping people work through their problems instead of simply giving them a checklist of what they "should" be doing -- without even listening to what the people have to say, or being honest enough to admit that their own Christian lives are in shambles as well.

 

[Lanolin]

scenario 1

molly and matt ought to pray and ask God what to do about baptism. Are they even going to the same church?? If they arent already then I think its a bit too late. That ship has sailed.

Ive seen some churches do dedication sprinkling ceremonies for babies as traditions (called christening) AND also full immersion baptisms. A lot of people do both, the first is for the parents really, the second is the offsprings own choice.

Not sure why the first is even called a baptism cos it isnt really. Thing is Max is both their child and they cant cut him in half. So they need to ask God what to do..maybe get out of the way and just dedicate him to God.

scenario 2

again sara and sam need to pray and ask God about what to do.
Like together.

Both of these couples dont seem to be talking about stuff. but if they are renting and cant pay the rent, which in reality is not secure anyway...sara would probably need to come up with more rent money. another job...!
Or move back in with their parents.

Saras insecurity is that they cant pay rent. well thing is, WHOSE income is actually paying the rent. Could they move somewhere cheaper, cos they will get evicted if they cant pay. If they had bought a home together it would it be different? are they on good terms with their landlord?

Ive not really heard of anyone selling their car to get bicycles instead, but if they have TWO or more cars and the running costs are more then its worth, it might be feasible to sell one.

Things is you cant 'help' someone whos got drug problems...you can only do an intervention and send them to rehab (salvation army take people...it doesnt cost as far as I know) so this scenario just seems a bit out there, obviously sara doesnt work with this co worker so I wonder what she actually does.. or how their accounts work...like do they put their money into different budgets first and get rent paid first thing and have a separate account or budget for Gods purposes, some couples have a tithing account.

do they, like most businesses do, have an annual look at their household budget and allocate what needs to go where. If they could do a CAP course (christians against poverty) they might learn together how to stay out of debt. A lot of couples do this.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Hey Everyone,

True Believer's recent thread reminded me of something I think about often in the Christian Singles community. We singles are always, always adamantly told to never, ever be unequally yoked in romantic relationships with unbelievers -- and I completely understand that. I am certainly not trying to argue the Bible's wisdom regarding believers marrying only other believers.

But on the flip side (and IToreTheSky's post touched on this,) why doesn't anyone talk about believers who find themselves unequally yoked with other Christian believers?

Let me give you 2 examples.

1. Story #1 -- Molly believes in infant sprinkling baptism, while Matt believes that a believer should be able to request baptism (full submersion, just as it was done in the Bible,) as an act of faith when they are old enough. They both hold true to the basic tenants of faith (salvation through belief in Christ as their Savior,) and since baptism isn't a "major" issue of faith, they decide they'll work around it, respect each other's beliefs, and just get married anyway.

After some time, their son Max is born. Molly, according to her beliefs, wants a full-on christening (infant baptism and naming ceremony) at church, as this is a big part of her beliefs about raising a child in a Godly way, as well as her family expecting them to carry on what they see as a sacred act.

Matt is very uncomfortable with this and doesn't want any of this for his son. He wants Max to be able to choose full submersion baptism as a consenting, acknowledging believer when he is old enough. Molly's family is whispering in disapproval that Matt must not care for the spiritual welfare of his son. After all, what if something happened to little Max? While Molly's family church would never say for sure if a baby would go to heaven or hell (because they would admit to not knowing,) they believe that infant baptism invites the Holy Spirit into the child's heart, and if the child should die before being old enough to understand, this would greatly "up" their chances of getting into heaven.)

Molly and Max find themselves arguing all the time over this, because it's not something they can just keep overlooking.

How do these two young parents resolve this?

2. Story #2 -- Sara has been a believer all her life. She's had a lot of ups and downs with her Christian walk, but she's had the time to experience a lot within her faith. Sam is a relatively new believer who came to Christ 2 years go. He is totally on fire for God and is happily giving away money and belongings to help anyone he encounters who has a need -- after all, he's read it right in the Bible that he should not turn anyone away empty-handed when they ask. However, Sam is running into some trouble himself. He's finding himself a little short on cash because he's giving away so much. But Sam wants to please God with all his heart, and truly believes he's doing the right thing.

Sara loves Sam's giving heart -- it's part of why she falls in love with him -- so they decide to get married. However... Problems begin to emerge because Sam is constantly giving away money and trying to help people. They're short on rent because Sam was trying to help a co-worker who has a drug problem. Sara warns Sam of possibly enabling this person, but Sam tells her God gives everyone a second chance. Sara also tries to talk to Sam about setting a budget and making sure they have enough first, but Sam says that God would say that they should put others before themselves.

Sara has had a long, tumultuous history with trying to help others, and she has learned that boundaries must be set and adhered to for a reason. She also knows that sometimes believers get caught up in works and wind up enabling others to make poor choices. However, Sam won't listen because he hasn't gotten to that point himself and believes he is doing the work of God. In fact, he is talking to her about giving away their car, because they could just get bicycles.

Sara doesn't know what to do. They are falling further into debt, and she doesn't want to undermine his role as the husband and leader of the family. But Sam says that "God will provide," and doesn't think twice about the growing pile of "Past Due" bills on their counter. And it is tearing their marriage apart. Sara no longer feels secure, and wonders if Sam is going to give them away right into homelessness.

Both of these examples are taken from incidences in real life.

I know this thread could easily dissolve into arguments of how to handle baptisms and budgets. However, personal beliefs about these issues are NOT the point of thread. The point of the thread is identifying with one or more of the characters in the story and telling us how you would work this problem out in a peaceful way with your own wife or husband if it were you.

When answering this thread, the questions to focus on are:

* What would you do if you were in this situation? How would you approach the subject in a loving, respectful manner with your spouse?

* What advice would you give to other singles on dating believers who are "equally yoked"?

Frankly, with everything there is to try to "match up" as far as "dating compatibility" goes, I know it must be a humongous miracle ANY time God puts two people together who find a way to make it work.

Our married friends here are more than welcome to tell us how they have handled these matters personally.

I'm looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts, both single and married.

Please remember, this thread is not about posting your position on baptism or finances and trying to convince everyone of what they should believe about them. Rather, it's about overlooking differences in another believer (maybe they're so good-looking, methods of baptism seem to go right out the window at the time,) and how to deal with them on the day of reckoning.

The problem is actually kind of self-cancelling. I will explain later (if I can remember my train of thought..) right now I have to finish these lovely $1 tacos.

 

[17Bees]

The problem is actually kind of self-cancelling. I will explain later (if I can remember my train of thought..) right now I have to finish these lovely $1 tacos.

That's literally food for thought.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Don't marry if you don't interpret scriptures the same way. Don't marry if you or they are not financially responsible. Don't marry if you fight about anything. Don't marry if they disagree with you about anything. Just don't marry. Problem solved.

That's a bit unfair to say. You can find out a lot beforehand, but the problem is that a lot of these things only get found out after you get married... unless maybe if you've dated for years, which is unlikely. You can't fully know someone until you start living together. Should now Christians be living together with their love interests so they can find everything out before marriage? Most of us would agree, that this wouldn't be a good Christian practice.

I believe people should pray a lot before getting married, but also, God isn't a micromanager - as long as He is obeyed and followed, we have a lot of freedom in our choices. He leads to specific choices at times, but I have personally come to realize that God will not give out laundry lists that we sometimes expect from Him: choose this specific vocation, apply for this specific job, move to a specific place, marry this specific person. He really only cares that the Way of Christ is upheld in our lives. Whatever we choose, besides that, we are free to choose, and to deal with the consequences on our own.

I suppose, that if a person is afraid of a bad marriage and not ready to risk, they probably shouldn't marry. I am just saying that this isn't "problem solved". It's more admitting one's own inability to solve the problem, or declaring that the problem is unsolvable, and choosing to run away or giving up instead.

 

[TravelerInTheWilderness]

I'll be honest. I have walked away from relationships and not pursued it further because we were on total different sides of issues of handling money. Believe me, I don't do this lightly. But there are some things that would make it very difficult for me to be with someone.

I care very much about my health and eating healthy, and it would be hard to be with someone who simply didn't care. I also know that good times aren't a given, and I care about saving money. It would be very hard for me to be with someone who spent without thinking about the future.

 

[seoulsearch]

The problem is actually kind of self-cancelling. I will explain later (if I can remember my train of thought..) right now I have to finish these lovely $1 tacos.

Uh oh.

I guess if she likes beef tacos and you like chicken, that really would be an unequal yolking. 🐄🐓😳

 

[Scribe]

That's a bit unfair to say. You can find out a lot beforehand, but the problem is that a lot of these things only get found out after you get married... unless maybe if you've dated for years, which is unlikely. You can't fully know someone until you start living together. Should now Christians be living together with their love interests so they can find everything out before marriage? Most of us would agree, that this wouldn't be a good Christian practice.

I believe people should pray a lot before getting married, but also, God isn't a micromanager - as long as He is obeyed and followed, we have a lot of freedom in our choices. He leads to specific choices at times, but I have personally come to realize that God will not give out laundry lists that we sometimes expect from Him: choose this specific vocation, apply for this specific job, move to a specific place, marry this specific person. He really only cares that the Way of Christ is upheld in our lives. Whatever we choose, besides that, we are free to choose, and to deal with the consequences on our own.

I suppose, that if a person is afraid of a bad marriage and not ready to risk, they probably shouldn't marry. I am just saying that this isn't "problem solved". It's more admitting one's own inability to solve the problem, or declaring that the problem is unsolvable, and choosing to run away or giving up instead.

I was kidding. Conflict is inevitable. How to deal with it in love and polite civility is the skill of the mature. If you notice impetuousness, personal name calling or similar immature reactions when conflict arises in the courtship you have a choice; Wait until maturity arrives, (if the party wants to mature and correct bad behavior) and this never happens over night, therefore be prepared to wait at least two years, or find someone who has already learned how to act mature when there is conflict and can seek a solution without destroying the relationship with bad behavior.

What you want to avoid at all costs, is a criticizer who is always telling you what you need to change or improve. They may be nice about it but if it is too frequent, walk away. It will only increase after marriage and it will not be as nice. A toxic environment of constant criticism.

"If you like yourself don't marry someone who thinks you shouldn't." (Scribe)

 

[Scribe]

dont marry...

got it.

I like that Soulweaver calls it 'concession' rather than compromise, I hear so many people say marriage is a compromise, that I kind of wonder how good it can be if you have to compromise ALL the time.
Compromise might be meeting halfway, but half way feels kind of half hearted. Isnt a marriage you just go all in, give your all to the other person and the other person gives their all to you.


dating...you dont have to date someone all the time. You can just date them a few times and then stop if you dont think you are on equal footing. I dont want to be dragged along or the one that has to pull someone else, even if we have the same faith, I think we are all given a measure of faith, and the disparity will show up sooner or later.

But like the virgins with their oils, you get it beforehand you dont say you dont have any then go steal it from someone else. I witness a lot of marriage like that. Of course the person giving at first seems happy to until they themselves run out so you both end up with less. You need to get the oil from God FIRST not each other.

The "you're not making me happy" syndrome.
I am guessing that the key to successful marriages are two mature people who know how to be happy in Jesus independently and then who also know how to be nice and polite at all times no matter the circumstances. Like perfect examples of Christian civility, kindness, politeness and hospitality 24x7. But that's just my guess. I am probably wrong.

 

[JustEli]

That's a bit unfair to say. You can find out a lot beforehand, but the problem is that a lot of these things only get found out after you get married... unless maybe if you've dated for years, which is unlikely. You can't fully know someone until you start living together. Should now Christians be living together with their love interests so they can find everything out before marriage? Most of us would agree, that this wouldn't be a good Christian practice.

I believe people should pray a lot before getting married, but also, God isn't a micromanager - as long as He is obeyed and followed, we have a lot of freedom in our choices. He leads to specific choices at times, but I have personally come to realize that God will not give out laundry lists that we sometimes expect from Him: choose this specific vocation, apply for this specific job, move to a specific place, marry this specific person. He really only cares that the Way of Christ is upheld in our lives. Whatever we choose, besides that, we are free to choose, and to deal with the consequences on our own.

I suppose, that if a person is afraid of a bad marriage and not ready to risk, they probably shouldn't marry. I am just saying that this isn't "problem solved". It's more admitting one's own inability to solve the problem, or declaring that the problem is unsolvable, and choosing to run away or giving up instead.

Well said..........

 

[JustEli]

Hey Everyone,

True Believer's recent thread reminded me of something I think about often in the Christian Singles community. We singles are always, always adamantly told to never, ever be unequally yoked in romantic relationships with unbelievers -- and I completely understand that. I am certainly not trying to argue the Bible's wisdom regarding believers marrying only other believers.

But on the flip side (and IToreTheSky's post touched on this,) why doesn't anyone talk about believers who find themselves unequally yoked with other Christian believers?

Let me give you 2 examples.

1. Story #1 -- Molly believes in infant sprinkling baptism, while Matt believes that a believer should be able to request baptism (full submersion, just as it was done in the Bible,) as an act of faith when they are old enough. They both hold true to the basic tenants of faith (salvation through belief in Christ as their Savior,) and since baptism isn't a "major" issue of faith, they decide they'll work around it, respect each other's beliefs, and just get married anyway.

After some time, their son Max is born. Molly, according to her beliefs, wants a full-on christening (infant baptism and naming ceremony) at church, as this is a big part of her beliefs about raising a child in a Godly way, as well as her family expecting them to carry on what they see as a sacred act.

Matt is very uncomfortable with this and doesn't want any of this for his son. He wants Max to be able to choose full submersion baptism as a consenting, acknowledging believer when he is old enough. Molly's family is whispering in disapproval that Matt must not care for the spiritual welfare of his son. After all, what if something happened to little Max? While Molly's family church would never say for sure if a baby would go to heaven or hell (because they would admit to not knowing,) they believe that infant baptism invites the Holy Spirit into the child's heart, and if the child should die before being old enough to understand, this would greatly "up" their chances of getting into heaven.)

Molly and Max find themselves arguing all the time over this, because it's not something they can just keep overlooking.

How do these two young parents resolve this?

2. Story #2 -- Sara has been a believer all her life. She's had a lot of ups and downs with her Christian walk, but she's had the time to experience a lot within her faith. Sam is a relatively new believer who came to Christ 2 years go. He is totally on fire for God and is happily giving away money and belongings to help anyone he encounters who has a need -- after all, he's read it right in the Bible that he should not turn anyone away empty-handed when they ask. However, Sam is running into some trouble himself. He's finding himself a little short on cash because he's giving away so much. But Sam wants to please God with all his heart, and truly believes he's doing the right thing.

Sara loves Sam's giving heart -- it's part of why she falls in love with him -- so they decide to get married. However... Problems begin to emerge because Sam is constantly giving away money and trying to help people. They're short on rent because Sam was trying to help a co-worker who has a drug problem. Sara warns Sam of possibly enabling this person, but Sam tells her God gives everyone a second chance. Sara also tries to talk to Sam about setting a budget and making sure they have enough first, but Sam says that God would say that they should put others before themselves.

Sara has had a long, tumultuous history with trying to help others, and she has learned that boundaries must be set and adhered to for a reason. She also knows that sometimes believers get caught up in works and wind up enabling others to make poor choices. However, Sam won't listen because he hasn't gotten to that point himself and believes he is doing the work of God. In fact, he is talking to her about giving away their car, because they could just get bicycles.

Sara doesn't know what to do. They are falling further into debt, and she doesn't want to undermine his role as the husband and leader of the family. But Sam says that "God will provide," and doesn't think twice about the growing pile of "Past Due" bills on their counter. And it is tearing their marriage apart. Sara no longer feels secure, and wonders if Sam is going to give them away right into homelessness.

Both of these examples are taken from incidences in real life.

I know this thread could easily dissolve into arguments of how to handle baptisms and budgets. However, personal beliefs about these issues are NOT the point of thread. The point of the thread is identifying with one or more of the characters in the story and telling us how you would work this problem out in a peaceful way with your own wife or husband if it were you.

When answering this thread, the questions to focus on are:

* What would you do if you were in this situation? How would you approach the subject in a loving, respectful manner with your spouse?

* What advice would you give to other singles on dating believers who are "equally yoked"?

Frankly, with everything there is to try to "match up" as far as "dating compatibility" goes, I know it must be a humongous miracle ANY time God puts two people together who find a way to make it work.

Our married friends here are more than welcome to tell us how they have handled these matters personally.

I'm looking forward to hearing all of your thoughts, both single and married.

Please remember, this thread is not about posting your position on baptism or finances and trying to convince everyone of what they should believe about them. Rather, it's about overlooking differences in another believer (maybe they're so good-looking, methods of baptism seem to go right out the window at the time,) and how to deal with them on the day of reckoning.

If I were to say, do not banndy words with an imbecile, nor microwave a hotdog for a master chef. Would that make any sense, whatsoever? But I suppose, that would fall into the pre yoked category.

 

[Ruby123]

If I were to say, do not banndy words with an imbecile, nor microwave a hotdog for a master chef. Would that make any sense, whatsoever? But I suppose, that would fall into the pre yoked category.

Um I don't quite understand this?

 

[Lanolin]

The "you're not making me happy" syndrome.
I am guessing that the key to successful marriages are two mature people who know how to be happy in Jesus independently and then who also know how to be nice and polite at all times no matter the circumstances. Like perfect examples of Christian civility, kindness, politeness and hospitality 24x7. But that's just my guess. I am probably wrong.

haha how mature you have to be is anyones guess.
scenario 1 seems disastrous because matt seems like a people pleaser who married someone whos church traditions are opposed to his beliefs. Maybe he didnt research that in the first instance, but if he converted upon marriage then he actually agreed to raise their children in that church so he would just have to swallow his discomfort.

scenario 2' the husband also seems to be a people pleaser but marriage is so you please your wife, not your co-worker. If the co-worker was married, HIS wife would need to deal with his drug problem. (or husbands if the co worker is female) and if they are not married, its actually on their parents.

I dont know what kind of drug problem it could be, but if any of my co-workers REALLY had a drug problem they wouldnt even be employed. Theres EAP that offer emplyees assistance and counselling, but theres only so much they can do.

personally I dont identify with any of the people in those two scenarios. I remember dating one guy who said he worked in drug rehab but didnt enjoy it after a while and was looking to get out of it, and then there was actually a guy I dated that was ON drugs. Its a bit hazy now but he got into rehab cos he confessed.

I cant imagine marrying either of them actually, But thing is you dont really know till you date someone, but thats why its dating and not marrying cos you find all these things out beforehand. The purpose of dating is so you get an idea of the kind of person and whether or not you really want to be with them. I think the first two scenarios seem like they didnt even date for very long cos those indicators would have shown up early.

i.e what church do you go to, and what does it practice?
why is this co-workers drug problems dominating every conversation? Or before that, why is this guy always rescuing people. Unless he works as a paramedic or counsellor, is he actually trained and and equipped to do this?

 

[Lynx]

The "you're not making me happy" syndrome.
I am guessing that the key to successful marriages are two mature people who know how to be happy in Jesus independently and then who also know how to be nice and polite at all times no matter the circumstances. Like perfect examples of Christian civility, kindness, politeness and hospitality 24x7. But that's just my guess. I am probably wrong.

That actually sounds a lot like my pastor and his wife. Either they are exactly like that, or they've successfully hidden their dark sides for many, many years.

Some day I want to grow up to be like them.

 

[Lanolin]

would it be the case in both scenarios it was 'marry in haste, repent at leisure' because any of those issues would have shown up if it was say a year long engagement?

Some churches do provide pre-marital counselling and I think in those scenarios whoever would have counselled them would have advised them to wait and find out more about the other person before committing. Personally I wouldnt just jump in with any one I barely knew. You cant change someone by marrying them, I dont think it works that way.

 

[IToreTheSky]

 

[zeroturbulence]

The problem is actually kind of self-cancelling. I will explain later (if I can remember my train of thought..) right now I have to finish these lovely $1 tacos.

After eating the tacos I had some candy corn because I bought this big bag of it from walmart and I fell into a "food coma" and when I came to it was late and I decided I'd write my post the next day. So the next day I tried to fix a set of blinds that wouldn't close properly and ended up spraining my wrist. I couldn't even use a knife at dinner because it was too painful.

So a couple days went by and my wrist was feeling ok but then I went to the post office today to mail in my ballot and there was a lady behind me so I instinctually held the door open for her. BAD IDEA. Now it's evening once again and my wrist is feeling ok after some ibuprofen and maybe JUST MAYBE I will be able to write my answer to this topic tonight.. ... or not. Stay tuned! Same bat time. Same bat channel.

 

[zeroturbulence]

Ok so I'll spare the details about why I haven't posted in the last two days. Let's just say it was a bit of an adventure and has to do with a nearby fire that threatened homes but has since been extiguished.

So what I was going to post (now that people dont even remember this topic anymore lol) was that the problem usually cancels itself out because from what I've seen, when two people have reached the point of seriously considering marriage, one of them is always willing to switch religious affiilitation.

If both parties were very devout to their religion from the start, they most likely would not have reached the point of seriously considering marriage because the conflict between two devout followers of different religions would have presented problems that would have either ended the relationship or to one of them deciding that their religion is disposable (which would be highly unlikely).

In conclusion: From what I've seen, most people are not devout and not overly concerned with their religion and would entertain the notion of switching if necessary.

 

[Lanolin]

one person caves in other words lol

 

[true_believer]

This actually has been a highly discussed issue in my former church.
I have heard church members talk about how they broke up relationships between believers and non-beiievers with with prayer.
When I was a very new Christian, a pastor insisted that I dump my girlfriend because she wasn't a Christian. After the relationship ended, he said that God was giving me pain as a lesson for disobedience. That seemed like a bit much.