Why are Christians such phonies?

[saintrose]

i'm a non-churchgoer Christian.
it works out for me.
just reading and even taking walks fills me with the Spirit.
would you ever feel comfortable trying that?

We had to stop going to church due to my injuries and my husband has no desire to return. I like hearing teachers although I still read on my own. I don't know what we're going to do. Is there some reason you don't go? My friend and her husband are big in their church, teaching bible study etc. yet when she knew I was in need never even sent a card or visited. And to think I used to look up to her just shows me that people who act so holy really aren't.

 

[saintrose]

The truth is that Christians, people of faith in Christ, are not phonies. There are many people who use the name but real people of faith in Christ are marked with humility, kindness, gentleness, honesty, hospitality, and more. The are self-disciplined, merciful, pursue justice, and have a deep joy that has also walked through deep sorrows. The people you describe sound dishonest, prideful, unkind and uncaring. Their behaviour falls under the category of things that God detests. The humble do not demand their rights over the needs of others, or ignore protecting the poor or the ill.
Be wise and discerning. Just because someone claims something doesn't make it true.

Actually several of the people I believe truly are Christians. The one corrupt man taught bible studies that my husband attended for several years. He said that he was the best bible teacher he'd ever heard. How can he teach the bible while cheating people and renting a building out to a daycare knowing it was toxic? He did it.

 

[Dino246]

I haven't found much of a difference between Christians and the world. In fact in some cases they're worse.

In some cases, that is true... and sad. My experience with Christians has generally been that there is consistency between their claim to faith in Christ and their behaviour. In other words, I see good fruit in their lives. A few, less than one in a hundred, are the exception.

 

[saintrose]

@saintrose
I totally get what you mean. I think of some things that happened during my 30 years of being a Christian that definitely made me feel disconnected from other Christians.

When I stopped being a Christian there were some that didn't get all weird towards me and even tried to help. But I did get a lot of heat for it. I was verbally attacked, lied about, falsely accused, etc... all by Christians that thought of me as an enemy. This is actually the first time in a while I've posted that on here as it usually ends up badly for me.

Thank you for your honesty. That's something I haven't always seen in Christians. It's good to even have someone else admit the truth.

When my daughter was going off to college I was scared to death. I called a campus safety organization and some of the terrible things he told me about how campuses hide the crime was earth-shattering. I said: "I guess you don't have that with Christian Colleges." I wasn't prepared for what he said next: "Actually they're worse because THEY DON'T WANT TO ADMIT THERE'S A PROBLEM."

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Discernment.


Ya ever wonder why a person who dates one abusive person after another?

Any social interactive relationship is the same. Be it in groups or friendships, family or dare we say Church.

One key word you said that set off my senses is that, "the family that owned the church". This says no oversight. No presbytery for accountability.

Maybe it could be the theological brand that is the problem, there are some that are inherent problems.

 

[saintrose]

I have found it hard to find a good church too. The last church I went to was for a period of about three or so years. About two years of attending the pastor one day was asking me why I had moved from the country up to the city. I briefly explained to him why and got quite emotional in the middle of it as I moved due to family circumstances that were not pleasant at the time. He just dismissed my upset and started talking to other people nearby as though nothing happened. He was actually laughing and joking with them in the middle of my upset. I felt so angry.

After that as well as seven or so other incidences with the pastor I just left and never went back. Now I just get my teaching from certain people of YouTube.

I'm glad you're admitting the truth. I guess I'm seeing that so much is a lie.

 

[saintrose]

I have been a believer for 66 years and I think I have seen everything in that time. I started out in a little country Baptist Church and loved it as they became a second family to me (I was fatherless). My next two churches were Baptist, the first was mediocre but the second was great. From there I went to a Brethren Bible College for two years. When I got back from my studies everything had changed and a new pastor who was not interested in what I had to offer. After being fully involved before I went and doing nothing when I came back became boring, I took the advice of one of my mentors who suggested I checked out a Charismatic Brethren Church about 100 miles away.

I investigated them and it was quite revolutionary. There was no them and us mentality. Everyone was welcome to share anything that the Lord had given them for the meeting in true Brethren fashion with the addition of the supernatural. I stayed there for a year and then moved to the HQ of the movement because I met my wife through the church and we stayed there for 10 years with me running the men's ministry, being chosen to organize and direct their annual conference, heading up one of the midweek home fellowships and because I had a job that took me all over the country for a while, I visited satellite churches if there was one in the town I was staying.

After 10 years, my wife who was Australian wanted to return home so we set sail for the Great Southland of the Holy Spirit along with our two kids. We spent six weeks in America on the way over where we found the American people so welcoming and friendly. We got invited to everything and were not asked to pay for anything.

After 10 years at Chard, the Australian church was an eye-opener. Whatever church we went to and we tried several the general consensus was the pastor was king and nothing was done unless it had his approval. And you could not do anything unless you did it the way he wanted it done. There was no freedom to hear from the Lord at all.

On a few occasions, I did hear from the Lord and acted accordingly but was told that was the Pastor's job. However, in one church where I taught how to produce media for the church, and where they did believe in the supernatural, I was given four prophesies by four different men in four different meetings in four different places that God was gifting me with the gift of teaching. This was interesting because I had been to university for six years and amongst three degrees I gained a teaching degree and ended up teaching senior students to fill my days before retirement.

This took me to country schools where I was offered a job before I left university. Despite this, I was not allowed to do any teaching in the church because I was not ordained by the denomination and had not been to their bible college. Obviously a Dip. Theology and three university degrees and the anointing from God were insufficient to qualify me in the church.

However, it was good for me because I became an avid student of the Word and any books I could lay my hands on. That is why I have over 1,000 books in my personal library. In time I got fed up with having to listen to little homilies that were full of discrepancies and devoid of anything serious and challenging from so-called Pastors who had no ability to exegete the Word. I ended up writing a thesis for a Ph.D.

On a couple of occasions, I raised issues to point out the discrepancies, and on the first one, everything I said would go wrong did and on the second I was kicked out of the church because I dared challenge the so-called leadership, a woman who was younger than my daughter.

In another church which I was one of the founding members of, I was sidelined after 12 months because when the time came around to sign the pledge, I said I could not because there was one doctrine I was not sure of as I was still working through it. That was sacrilege so I was deprived of all ministry despite what I was doing was well received. The pastor at this church told us that God had said he was going to double the congregation every year. So that meant it should be welcoming 50,000 people each Sunday now. Its average congregation is 50.

After that, I gave up the church as a waste of time as all they wanted to do was flog a dead horse. It was as the saying goes that only an idiot does the same thing every week and expects a different outcome. The first situation above when we joined the church there were about 130 people coming to meetings. After a few changes of leadership, they are now down to about 30 and are content to let the church die slowly.

These days my church is a group of men who meet on a Friday for fellowship, food and fun and we get on like a house on fire because we don't consider anyone better than anyone else. We are all one in Christ.

So what is the moral of my story? It is just this. Unless you find a church that allows the Holy Spirit to run things, you will be stuck in a rut having to do as you told by the "bosses" and do things their way. To be led by the Spirit is an unknown experience as the Spirit only talks to the Pastor so all you need do is to sit on the premises and forget about standing on the promises.

So I can sympathize with the OP because it is obvious that the church, in general, is beset with power plays and authority figures that are more interested in their ministry than the ministry of others.

WOW! As I read through this I just was so grateful that you shared it. I wish I had known more over the years I would have known that churches are run in an authoritarian manner, or even a corrupt manner and I wouldn't have questioned myself all that time thinking that the problem was in me. I knew of one Christian years ago who was discouraged with the church and said she was turning to home bible groups as they did in biblical times.

You've given me some hope that there may be a way to still have iron sharpen iron. Maybe home groups is the answer.

 

[laughingheart]

Actually several of the people I believe truly are Christians. The one corrupt man taught bible studies that my husband attended for several years. He said that he was the best bible teacher he'd ever heard. How can he teach the bible while cheating people and renting a building out to a daycare knowing it was toxic? He did it.

Knowing the truth and living it are very separate things. I am sad that your husband was exposed to this person. Someone can know about love, talk about it and teach about it while not being loving. It is heart sickening but he was not living as a follower of Christ.
If you truly believe something then your actions will follow that belief. If I am standing in the middle of the road and I believe that a truck is heading in my direction, that belief will mean that I get out of the way. Your actions are the true indicator of your belief.

 

[saintrose]

Very close to what I was thinking when I read the 1st Post. There are untold numbers of people in the US, and in the world who claim to be Christians that are not. Some do so from ignorance of what it means to be a Christian, and what it takes to become a Christian. Some do it for personal gain, and there are more than a few of these on the Sunday morning TV Shows I believe.

I know a lot of people who claim to be a Christian because one or more of their parents or grandparents were Christian. They think that because they went to church from time to time that they are Christians; never realizing that they remain lost regardless of their Attendance Record at Church.

The number of true believers compared to the number of those who claim to be Christians is a very small percentage I believe.

When I read, or hear of some church or people acting like those in the 1st comment, I wonder why people believe the wrong doers are Christian? Because they claim to be?

I think you're right about many attending church who aren't spiritually regenerated. Bush claimed to be and he's likely a satanist. But I think that a lot of people use the term loosely. As far as some of them though, I believe that they were real Christians.

Another thing I wondered though - the verse came to me: "Many are called but few are chosen." I wonder if there are "Christians" who were called but aren't going to the final destination.

Has anyone else wondered about that verse?

 

[saintrose]

theres christians and then theres phony christians who hang out in churches, like wolves in sheeps clothing who fleece the flock, and Ive seen this happen to many churches, sadly its very common.

I think they way that a lot of churches are organised somehow allow this to happen.
How can the holy spirit move in churches when the pastors main concern is paying his bills or his retirement and everyone else is asked to pay his bills and contribute to a church mortgage.

I mean gentrification happens with churches too, they become old and stale, and too expensive for everyone else.

Yes I saw that there were a fair amount of wolves in sheep's clothing. I think what I failed to do was see the church as a business. Deep down that's what they are: businesses. And pastors and leadership sometimes treat it as such. I think meeting at home where no one is "the leader" may be the answer.

 

[saintrose]

In some cases, that is true... and sad. My experience with Christians has generally been that there is consistency between their claim to faith in Christ and their behaviour. In other words, I see good fruit in their lives. A few, less than one in a hundred, are the exception.

I'm glad for your good experiences.

 

[saintrose]

Knowing the truth and living it are very separate things. I am sad that your husband was exposed to this person. Someone can know about love, talk about it and teach about it while not being loving. It is heart sickening but he was not living as a follower of Christ.
If you truly believe something then your actions will follow that belief. If I am standing in the middle of the road and I believe that a truck is heading in my direction, that belief will mean that I get out of the way. Your actions are the true indicator of your belief.

Then how was that man able to teach the bible? I personally could not understand the bible until I was regenerated, and then it was very slow learning spread over a period of years. God had to have opened up the Word to that man for him to be able to teach it so well. Yet he was corrupt and helped his son cheat a family member. He also rented a toxic facility to a daycare, knowing it was toxic. He was a multimillionaire and money was more important to him than anything it seems.

 

[Mii]

Another thing I wondered though - the verse came to me: "Many are called but few are chosen." I wonder if there are "Christians" who were called but aren't going to the final destination.

Has anyone else wondered about that verse?

Yes indeed. In fact it causes me much consternation and apathy at times. To the point where it's like...if I knew I wouldn't "make the cut" would I still follow the greatest commandment? According to my own understanding and "fleshing it out" yes. What else can I do? I could go through a long post about serving the Lord even when you feel you aren't "chosen" or that you are a vessel of wrath regardless due to certain factors, etc. Or even the agnostic route but every day is different and "though he slay me..." What else can you really do?


With regard to the OP. Perhaps this is a time for you to network and look for brothers and sisters in Christ and not exactly a building. It has been made relatively clear to me that I have no business in certain churches. You really have no idea what the Lord is doing behind the scenes. He "may" give you a hint just to quell your anxiety or he may not.

I've been to a good bit of churches and some of them are giant question marks. Like, there's no place for me there even though I feel the Spirit moving. It is puzzling but perhaps when people talk about being "moved" to the right place, this is what they mean.

So I don't feel led to give you any suggestions really except that "assessment" of what type of fellowship you want is a good place to start. Then trust the Lord with your actual needs. Missionaries are pretty isolated and that's where the Lord wants a lot of them. Just consider what you feel led to and take your time.

Myself I have a lot of "motions" sort of "tabled". Questions I have that may not ever get answered.

I will say that every church I've ever been to that I've actually taken the time or been desperate to find another believer I have.

I won't attempt to illustrate my bitterness and distaste of many church structures. I don't have all the answers and I know somewhere I have some heart issues about what goes on. It's really not our place to say unless the Lord specifically lays it on our plate. That's hard to really accept but I can say that my critique while having the "form" of Godliness is probably not inspired of the Lord (probably being sarcastic) and at best is my flesh rearing.
So just leave wonky church stuff between them and the Lord unless you specifically feel led to do otherwise. Don't let the enemy drive you away from the Lord just because of who else follows him (supposedly or actually) and what they do. That's their business. Some things are between them and the Lord and I have to accept that.

I'll admit, it is hard.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yes I wonder if this is the great falling away.

Possibly but it would still never change how we are commanded to act or change the mission in reaching the lost and uplifting God's people. Some prophets in the OT literally spoke to deaf ears, none would listen, and they were forced to watch their people enter into judgment.

 

[SoulWeaver]

@saintrose , I feel you on the corruption and phony-ness of people, not just in church but in general. You are not wrong, it's out there...
But I take it in a different way. Imagine as if you were an oppressive ruler that has the whole world underfoot. Where would you focus your troops and expend the ammunition at? At those who are your faithful subjects, or at those who are rebelling against your yoke and wanting to break free?
There's no one who wishes for a holy life, that will not face orchestrated opposition from the powers of the air. This is a universal experience of anyone who pursues righteousness.
Unfortunately, many do not make it through, to truly be free.
It's certainly very saddening and can be disheartening. At times, I feel like this observing some in my surroundings that supposedly believe Jesus but persist in certain wrong choices. I hope you will find comfort and answers that you seek. Peace.

 

[IToreTheSky]

I can't nor will I speak for other Christians, but I can say in the time I have been saved that the times I have been "phony" it's basically come down to my own lack of fellowship with God
It took me a long time to realize that He really loves me. I knew it in my mind but not in my heart. Not at least the way He desired me to know it
I never loved or accepted myself and always felt the outcast even be being a long standing member in my church. I was on the praise & worship team too.... So many times I felt like I had to fake being happy.
It's true that Christians can be phony, hypocritical,unkind,and down right horrible at times. .. just like the world.
It's sad and it sucks,but that's life!
When I put away my pride and rely on God instead of relying on myself or others then I am not disappointed.
I admit that I don't do the greatest job at showing Christ's love to all,but then again I'm not perfect. This doesn't give me an excuse to abuse His grace and mercy.
I see the church as a whole do this,but God weeds out the phony ppl eventually. Nothing goes unseen. Just continue to give that anger and frustration you have with Christians over to Him,and keep your heart open to His love. I am sorry that all that happened to the OP .
- Peace & Strength to you.

 

[Scribe]

I've been a Christian for a long time and I saw such terrible things; my eyes have been opened to just how sick the church as a whole is. My husband pulled us out of a church and put us into a church I did not like. I had been warned about the family that owned the church and the warning turned out to be true. The youth pastor was corrupt and cheated a family member in a big way. It really hurt but then they were caught doing something corrupt and their names were splashed across the newspapers - countrywide. They hurt a lot of people and then they went to a fair day the town held and set up their booth trying to draw new victims into their church. They were so blatant about it. I actually think they were stealing from the church.

Then we went to another church and the leadership was terrible. They told me that "God" put them in their positions and what they said was it. I was shocked at such overt pride. Then I was injured and we stopped attending the church we went to for 10 years. The pastor stopped taking my calls and I saw that I guess if you're not supporting the church you don't get his time.

Then a friend who I had looked up to never came to visit when I was injured, never sent a card, nothing. But she did that for all the people in her church and I saw that she was a respecter of persons. She and her husband are snooty.

Then I've been on a few other forums and the people are downright demonic. I saw that it's all a lie. Once in awhile you meet someone who is upright but many of the so-called "Christians" are total jerks or psychopaths. One guy got angry whenever I poste thread and he would jump on immediately and attack me. My husband said he's got something wrong with him. It got so bad I had to threaten him with contacting the police because he was making me feel unsafe.

I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.

Your posts show a pattern of bitterness. I think you have been given many kind and patient answers in the past. It is past time for you to stop focusing on the failures of others and focus on your own faults. Namely the fault of finding fault. You can take this as an unkind reply and find fault or you can receive it as a word from the Lord to you and rush to His feet for forgiveness and healing.

 

[mustaphadrink]

WOW! As I read through this I just was so grateful that you shared it. I wish I had known more over the years I would have known that churches are run in an authoritarian manner, or even a corrupt manner and I wouldn't have questioned myself all that time thinking that the problem was in me. I knew of one Christian years ago who was discouraged with the church and said she was turning to home bible groups as they did in biblical times.

You've given me some hope that there may be a way to still have iron sharpen iron. Maybe home groups is the answer.

Home groups are more biblical than religious church meetings.

 

[Adstar]

I've been a Christian for a long time and I saw such terrible things; my eyes have been opened to just how sick the church as a whole is. My husband pulled us out of a church and put us into a church I did not like. I had been warned about the family that owned the church and the warning turned out to be true. The youth pastor was corrupt and cheated a family member in a big way. It really hurt but then they were caught doing something corrupt and their names were splashed across the newspapers - countrywide. They hurt a lot of people and then they went to a fair day the town held and set up their booth trying to draw new victims into their church. They were so blatant about it. I actually think they were stealing from the church.

Then we went to another church and the leadership was terrible. They told me that "God" put them in their positions and what they said was it. I was shocked at such overt pride. Then I was injured and we stopped attending the church we went to for 10 years. The pastor stopped taking my calls and I saw that I guess if you're not supporting the church you don't get his time.

Then a friend who I had looked up to never came to visit when I was injured, never sent a card, nothing. But she did that for all the people in her church and I saw that she was a respecter of persons. She and her husband are snooty.

Then I've been on a few other forums and the people are downright demonic. I saw that it's all a lie. Once in awhile you meet someone who is upright but many of the so-called "Christians" are total jerks or psychopaths. One guy got angry whenever I posted a thread and he would jump on immediately and attack me. My husband said he's got something wrong with him. It got so bad I had to threaten him with contacting the police because he was making me feel unsafe.

I'm just really disillusioned with christianity. It all seems like a lie.

Christianity is not people, churches and denominations...

Christianity is the message of God and His will for us...

Focus on God and His will... Not on men and their faults..

 

[mustaphadrink]

Christianity is not people, churches and denominations...

Christianity is the message of God and His will for us...

Focus on God and His will... Not on men and their faults..

That is a rather a sanctimonious response. The writer is talking about reality. And for your information is always about people. People who are saved. People who need to be saved. People who are in need of a saviour. People who are anointed to go and make disciples. People who are full of the Holy Spirit and go and perform miracles in Jesus name. Without them, there is no church.