Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[GraceAndTruth]

 

[throughfaith]

But I asked why were some made vessels of wrath FOR destruction......like Judas.

Which verse ?

 

[throughfaith]

Paul uses this term PROORIZO in reference to God setting him apart to service in Romans 1:1 and Galatians 1:15. In Galatians 1:15 he said he was set apart from his mother's womb. So much for the idea that some have that predestination happens after conversion. God didn't suddenly discover that we will believe one day. He has eternal, perfect, infallible foreknowledge of all things.

But we're all, myself included, way off topic.

From his mother's womb . Is that before the foundation of the world dummy ?

 

[throughfaith]

God made them both

which verse?

 

[throughfaith]

Paul uses this term PROORIZO in reference to God setting him apart to service in Romans 1:1 and Galatians 1:15. In Galatians 1:15 he said he was set apart from his mother's womb. So much for the idea that some have that predestination happens after conversion. God didn't suddenly discover that we will believe one day. He has eternal, perfect, infallible foreknowledge of all things.

But we're all, myself included, way off topic.

Inductive reasoning .

 

[awelight]

Inductive reasoning .

Been gone for a while but I see some have learned little. And good ole' "throughfaith" still spouting his convoluted nonsense. I found it particularly funny, that the one who rarely proves any point by Scripture, is demanding Scripture proof.

OIC1965 - keep up the good work. Your points are right on! Some may have trouble following your argument but be not deterred. You are not responsible for their blindness. I submit, they could not see the truth if it stood fifty feet tall and was illumined in neon.

 

[throughfaith]

If properly understanding the syntax of Ephesians 1:5 makes me a Calvinist, maybe you should get on board.

But no, I am not a Calvinist. Making a point about the syntax of a passage does not make one a Calvinist.

Not just me then. Thinks like a duck, talks like a duck lol

 

[throughfaith]

Been gone for a while but I see some have learned little. And good ole' "throughfaith" still spouting his convoluted nonsense. I found it particularly funny, that the one who rarely proves any point by Scripture, is demanding Scripture proof.

OIC1965 - keep up the good work. Your points are right on! Some may have trouble following your argument but be not deterred. You are not responsible for their blindness. I submit, they could not see the truth if it stood fifty feet tall and was illumined in neon.

Still dealing with the influence in professing non calvinists .

 

[throughfaith]

Addition to last post.

Verse 3 refers to every spiritual blessing given us in Christ Jesus. Paul then goes on to enumerate many of those blessings. Some, election, predestination happened in eternity past. Some happened after conversion. And some will happen in the future. ( that in the ages to come).

Just a reminder...2 Timothy 1:9 says that grace was given to us before the world began as well.

In the same book ,the very next page you are not taking into account Eph 2.11-12 which always refutes the calvinistic interpretation about a ' choosing ' of people before they existed in the mind of God theory . I know for absolute certain that Jesus is the elect , eternal preexisting one before the foundation of the world and things become ours ONLY when we are in this eternal ,ELECT , preexisting, being .

 

[throughfaith]

Was Paul chosen before or after salvation? Galatians 1:15.

Stop trying to fit a passage into the scheme. Paul was not chosen before the foundation of the world in God's mind before Paul existed to be converted.

 

[throughfaith]

Was Paul chosen before or after salvation? Galatians 1:15.

We have a verse . Acts 9

15¶But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a CHOSEN ( After he was saved ) vessel unto me, to ( For a purpose ) bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Paul could have disobeyed his vision etc .
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Acts 26.19

 

[throughfaith]

How many ways can I say.........saved by the atonement (propitiation
To be saved we must have needed to be saved from something.
the "something" is the penalty that God demand for the sin payment.
The propitiation made that payment. We are saved by the propitation of Christ.

Without the resurrection we could not be saved .

 

[throughfaith]

“ having predestinated” in verse 5 is an aorist participle following verse 4 which says that God chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world.

According as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world...having predestinated us (aorist participle)

The predestination MUST BE before the foundation of the world for the same reason sealing of the Spirit follows faith. The grammatical syntax demands it

You don’t even get verse 4 right, Why would I think you would get verse 5 right?

He's telling people that already know they have been saved . They know they have been given the Holy Spirit and Paul is also telling them they HAVE also been predestined . Being told you have been been predestined to conversion ,after the effect , is rubbish compared with being told after your already converted that your predestined to be glorified/ The Adoption.
. thats good news. Thats pauls point. Especially in Rom 8 also .

 

[throughfaith]

So where does the Bible say election and predestination happen after our conversion?

We see many people throughout the bible including Jesus chosen for a purpose. Jesus however like others were not chosen to be saved before the foundation of the world . The only ' eject ' you can place before the foundation of the world is Jesus .

 

[awelight]

Still dealing with the influence in professing non calvinists .

You know --- one day you might just start listening to others points and truly testing whether they be true or false and stop trying to put people into nice little boxes. I HATE LABELS. You and others have a real problem with opposing ideas. You spout Calvinism, as if he was the only person whoever saw what he wrote about. You talk about "Calvin" as if he had a lock on this view point and was the first to discover it. Both untrue.

Your so opposed to predetermined salvation being the truth you have blinded yourselves to simple and correct understandings. Example: Just read John 10 and let what the Lord said speak to you. This chapter needs no interpretation. It is simple and to the point. For those who argue for the Doctrine of Election and Predestination and so on, there is no personal gain. The gain is in YOUR argument. If you are right, then everyone has an opportunity for Salvation and God is just sitting back waiting to see what happens. Everyone cheer. Everyone gains. To argue the other side, which is TRUTH, again, has no personal gain. The Doctrine is despised and so is the messenger. We are defending a doctrine, which potentially says, your Wife, your Son, your Daughter, may have not been chosen before the foundation of the World and will not see God's saving Grace. Again, no personal gain. At least not in this World nor in this life. We do what we do because it is the Truth and having been called by God, it is the duty of the Saints to defend God's Word.

God's Word (Truth) will be used to determine rewards (to the elect) and will be used to determine the severity of Judgment (to the condemned). Anyone, who defends God's Sovereign right to determine Salvation, only has hope of reward before Christ, fore he/she will be castaway by family members and despised by religionist for defending it. Where is the personal gain? It is excluded in this age. By the Worlds standards, one would have to be a fool to defend this Doctrine and suffer and lose so much. Only God fearing believers would risk so much because they aim to please God and not men.

But beware. If you set your self up to be a teacher or instructor of God's Word and know not the Truth, then God will hold you responsible for every lie and every person you deceived or stumbled. To be a teacher of the Word, is an awesome responsibility

.

 

[throughfaith]

You know --- one day you might just start listening to others points and truly testing whether they be true or false and stop trying to put people into nice little boxes. I HATE LABELS. You and others have a real problem with opposing ideas. You spout Calvinism, as if he was the only person whoever saw what he wrote about. You talk about "Calvin" as if he had a lock on this view point and was the first to discover it. Both untrue.

Your so opposed to predetermined salvation being the truth you have blinded yourselves to simple and correct understandings. Example: Just read John 10 and let what the Lord said speak to you. This chapter needs no interpretation. It is simple and to the point. For those who argue for the Doctrine of Election and Predestination and so on, there is no personal gain. The gain is in YOUR argument. If you are right, then everyone has an opportunity for Salvation and God is just sitting back waiting to see what happens. Everyone cheer. Everyone gains. To argue the other side, which is TRUTH, again, has no personal gain. The Doctrine is despised and so is the messenger. We are defending a doctrine, which potentially says, your Wife, your Son, your Daughter, may have not been chosen before the foundation of the World and will not see God's saving Grace. Again, no personal gain. At least not in this World nor in this life. We do what we do because it is the Truth and having been called by God, it is the duty of the Saints to defend God's Word.

God's Word (Truth) will be used to determine rewards (to the elect) and will be used to determine the severity of Judgment (to the condemned). Anyone, who defends God's Sovereign right to determine Salvation, only has hope of reward before Christ, fore he/she will be castaway by family members and despised by religionist for defending it. Where is the personal gain? It is excluded in this age. By the Worlds standards, one would have to be a fool to defend this Doctrine and suffer and lose so much. Only God fearing believers would risk so much because they aim to please God and not men.

But beware. If you set your self up to be a teacher or instructor of God's Word and know not the Truth, then God will hold you responsible for every lie and every person you deceived or stumbled. To be a teacher of the Word, is an awesome responsibility

.

Sounds like your telling me I'm wrong and your right there . Straightening me out and teaching me what you believe is Gods word .If not a little angrily and spiteful ?
John 10 is before the greatest thing to ever happen in the biblical timeline . The death, burial and resurrection. Why are you preferring verses that really are building up to the Gospel .

 

[OIC1965]

We have a verse . Acts 9

15¶But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a CHOSEN ( After he was saved ) vessel unto me, to ( For a purpose ) bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Paul could have disobeyed his vision etc .
Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
Acts 26.19

Read Galatians 1:15 again.

 

[OIC1965]

He's telling people that already know they have been saved . They know they have been given the Holy Spirit and Paul is also telling them they HAVE also been predestined . Being told you have been been predestined to conversion ,after the effect , is rubbish compared with being told after your already converted that your predestined to be glorified/ The Adoption.
. thats good news. Thats pauls point. Especially in Rom 8 also .

You gave Ephesians 1:4-5 as evidence that election and predestination happen after conversion. They show no such thing. In fact, they show the opposite. Try again

 

[OIC1965]

From his mother's womb . Is that before the foundation of the world dummy ?

This was regarding your statement that election only happens after conversion. And name calling is against the rules. Straighten up.

 

[OIC1965]

Stop trying to fit a passage into the scheme. Paul was not chosen before the foundation of the world in God's mind before Paul existed to be converted.

You said people are not chosen until they are saved. Paul said he was seperated from his mother’s womb. Same greek word he used in Romans 1:1, set apart to the gospel of God

Does God seperate people unto ministry while their conversion is unknown in His mind?

So in your paradigm God had no idea or clue that Paul would be an apostle until He met Him on the Damascus road. God wasn’t sure how Paul would respond that day? Is that what you’re saying?