Why isn’t the new covenant part of “Isaiah only”?

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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#1
I am often scolded severely for not understanding the concept of Israel only. I am also told I do not understand the new covenant. I search scripture and pray, and I am having real trouble aligning my understanding with scripture and these posters. I am God’s child, scripture has to come first.

In Jeremiah 31:31 it tells us “I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”. If it is true that we are not included when God speaks to Israel and Judah, wouldn’t it then follow that we are not included in the new covenant? Yet everyone knows that we are included.

I hope your feedback will help. I read the OT as to me as well as Israel, so I even sometimes pray with the 23rd Psalm. What am I not understanding?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#2
I am often scolded severely for not understanding the concept of Israel only. I am also told I do not understand the new covenant. I search scripture and pray, and I am having real trouble aligning my understanding with scripture and these posters. I am God’s child, scripture has to come first.

In Jeremiah 31:31 it tells us “I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”. If it is true that we are not included when God speaks to Israel and Judah, wouldn’t it then follow that we are not included in the new covenant? Yet everyone knows that we are included.

I hope your feedback will help. I read the OT as to me as well as Israel, so I even sometimes pray with the 23rd Psalm. What am I not understanding?
The one stop Scripture concerning the Israel of God.

Two Israel's are seen below, (Two)

The Israel of the Flesh, (Ethnic Jews) these are not the children of God.

Israel the (Chuch) are children of the promised seed, children of God.

It's A Done Deal!

Roman's 9:6-8KJV

6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
113
#3
I am often scolded severely for not understanding the concept of Israel only. I am also told I do not understand the new covenant. I search scripture and pray, and I am having real trouble aligning my understanding with scripture and these posters. I am God’s child, scripture has to come first.

In Jeremiah 31:31 it tells us “I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”. If it is true that we are not included when God speaks to Israel and Judah, wouldn’t it then follow that we are not included in the new covenant? Yet everyone knows that we are included.

I hope your feedback will help. I read the OT as to me as well as Israel, so I even sometimes pray with the 23rd Psalm. What am I not understanding?
Israel's home will be on Earth, in the physical kingdom of God where Jesus will reign from David's throne in Jerusalem (Zechariah 8)

Our home, as the Body of Christ, will be in the heavens, seated with Christ, in the heavenly places.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,627
13,875
113
#4
I am often scolded severely for not understanding the concept of Israel only. I am also told I do not understand the new covenant. I search scripture and pray, and I am having real trouble aligning my understanding with scripture and these posters. I am God’s child, scripture has to come first.

In Jeremiah 31:31 it tells us “I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”. If it is true that we are not included when God speaks to Israel and Judah, wouldn’t it then follow that we are not included in the new covenant? Yet everyone knows that we are included.

I hope your feedback will help. I read the OT as to me as well as Israel, so I even sometimes pray with the 23rd Psalm. What am I not understanding?
There's nothing wrong with praying the 23rd Psalm, or any other psalm from Scripture. There's nothing wrong with reading Scripture. What is wrong is taking the commands given to Israel and applying them to people who are not Israel, i.e.: yourself.

Jeremiah 31:31 is quoted in Hebrews 8:8, and that passage concludes with the statement, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete." That's the key; the old covenant, made at Sinai, was not merely added to (as you have claimed elsewhere), but was superseded completely. The relationship that Israel (the faithful ones) has with God now is not that of shadows and copies, but is of the eternal reality in Jesus Christ.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#5
Israel's home will be on Earth, in the physical kingdom of God where Jesus will reign from David's throne in Jerusalem (Zechariah 8)

Our home, as the Body of Christ, will be in the heavens, seated with Christ, in the heavenly places.
There will be no future 1,000 year Millennial kingdom upon this earth, immediately after the3.5 year tribulation, Jesus Christ is revealed in fire and Final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire, Malachi 3:2, 2 Thess 1:7-8, 1 Cor 3:13, Luke 17:29-30, 2 Peter 3:10-12

Only those that desire to maintain a false Millennial Kingdom on this existing earth (Deny) the facts of scripture below

When Jesus Christ is revealed immediately after the tribulation, its (Fire Time)

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved,
what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#6
There's nothing wrong with praying the 23rd Psalm, or any other psalm from Scripture. There's nothing wrong with reading Scripture. What is wrong is taking the commands given to Israel and applying them to people who are not Israel, i.e.: yourself.

Jeremiah 31:31 is quoted in Hebrews 8:8, and that passage concludes with the statement, "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete." That's the key; the old covenant, made at Sinai, was not merely added to (as you have claimed elsewhere), but was superseded completely. The relationship that Israel (the faithful ones) has with God now is not that of shadows and copies, but is of the eternal reality in Jesus Christ.
However can we decide, then, what to read as for Israel only as a command, and what we are to read as for us?

If the laws of the Lord are telling us how the world works, then we are to separate how the kingdom of God is, and how it is for Israel only? I am sorry, I am just being awfully dense, I wish I could understand.

It seems to me that the ten commandments were telling all people how the law of love works, giving them rules. Then the new covenant cleared up these rules by giving the spirit of Christ. That would be saying that God never changes, and yet that there is a better way of understanding.

Otherwise we say God makes mistakes, so God had to correct those mistakes He made, and that doesn't compute with all scripture. ?????
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#7
However can we decide, then, what to read as for Israel only as a command, and what we are to read as for us?
Straightforward answer: The Body of Christ was a mystery revealed to the Apostle Paul. You get doctrine for that in Romans to Philemon.

For Israel, is everything else.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#8
Straightforward answer: The Body of Christ was a mystery revealed to the Apostle Paul. You get doctrine for that in Romans to Philemon.

For Israel, is everything else.
Are you saying that everything except what the letters of the NT tell us is for us, but nothing other than that is scripture from the Lord for us? That would wipe out the Palms and the story of creation. That does not make sense.
 
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
1,399
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#9
Are you saying that everything except what the letters of the NT tell us is for us, but nothing other than that is scripture from the Lord for us? That would wipe out the Palms and the story of creation. That does not make sense.
All scripture is written FOR us, for our learning, but only Romans to Philemon is doctrine written TO us and ABOUT us.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,778
113
#10
In Jeremiah 31:31 it tells us “I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah”. If it is true that we are not included when God speaks to Israel and Judah, wouldn’t it then follow that we are not included in the new covenant? Yet everyone knows that we are included.
I suppose you meant "Israel only" in your title, not "Isaiah only".

What you need to understand is that the Abrahamic Covenant was made long before Isaiah and Jeremiah, and it includes BOTH the Church as well as redeemed and restored Israel. It also includes Christ as the seed (descendant) of Abraham. Therefore the New Covenant made with Israel applies -- by extension -- to the Church (which includes Gentiles).

GENESIS 15: ABRAM'S SEED: THE NATION OF ISRAEL IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL
4
And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness...
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.


As you can see, this speaks of "Greater Israel" from the Nile to the Euphrates, which will become a reality under Christ in the future.

GENESIS 22: CHRIST AND THE CHURCH AS THE *SEED* OF ABRAHAM
14
And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:..
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice...

Paul speaks of Christ as the seed of Abraham in Galatians 3:16: Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Then Paul speaks of Gentile believers Galatians 3:8,9: And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the Gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

It should be clear to everyone that both the Church and redeemed Israel are under the New Covenant. In spite of this there will be some naysayers who deny that there will be a restored Israel on earth after the Second Coming of Christ.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,496
113
#11
It should be clear to everyone that both the Church and redeemed Israel are under the New Covenant. In spite of this there will be some naysayers who deny that there will be a restored Israel on earth after the Second Coming of Christ.
When The Chosen, Remnant Elect Jew Is Redeemed, They Are Grafted Back Into The Olive Tree (Jesus Christ) And Become Israel The Church, Right Along With The Rest Of All That Have Believed, Both Jew And Gentile.

There will Be No Zionist Restored Kingdom of Israel On This Earth After The Second Coming, This Earth Will Be Dissolved By The Lords Fire In Judgement At His Appearance.

Only those that desire to maintain a false Millennial Kingdom on this existing earth (Deny) the facts of scripture below

When Jesus Christ is revealed, immediately after the tribulation, its (Fire Time)

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.


2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance
on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

2 Peter 3:10-12KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved,
what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
#12
To discern the scriptures we have to realise the following:

God's old covenant was with Abraham, through his descendants son Isaac, and grandson Jacob (and Jacob was renamed Israel by God, after he struggled with God and overcame).

God's old covenant with Jacob/Israel was broken by Israel's disobedience (pagan worshipping, offering their children to Baal, etc.), through their disobedience to God's old covenant Israel got split into two kingdoms, the southern kingdom Jews under Judah (tribes of Judah/Benjamin/Levi), and the northern kingdom Ephraimites under Ephraim's half tribe of Joseph son of Jacob (remainder of the twelve tribes of Israel). For them breaking God's covenant the Ephraimites went into a very long Assyrian captivity scattered to all the nations (to this day they have not been regathered and are still identity lost, scattered among the nations, we do not know who their offspring are). For breaking God's covenant the three tribes of Jews (excluding the Ephraimite tribes), went into a short period of captivity to Babylon, retained their identity and returned to the three tribes' of Judah's southern land of Judea (not the complete Israel as the promised land to all twelve tribes).

The curse for breaking God's old covenant is found in Deuteronomy 28 and the specific curse of being scattered with a lost identity (forgetting you are Israel) among the nations is found in verse 64:


Deuteronomy 28 (ESV)


64 "And the Lord will scatter you among all peoples, from one end of the earth to the other, and there you shall serve other gods of wood and stone, which neither you nor your fathers have known.

Jesus / Yeshua removed Israel's curse under God's old covenant, with God's new covenant with his chosen people Israel, who will now regain their lost identity, and come into one under Jesus / Yeshua out from their scatteredness among all the nations:


John 11 (ESV)


48 If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe in him, and the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation." 49 But one of them, Caiaphas, who was high priest that year, said to them, "You know nothing at all. 50 Nor do you understand that it is better for you that one man should die for the people, not that the whole nation should perish." 51 He did not say this of his own accord, but being high priest that year he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation, 52 and not for the nation only, but also to gather into one the children of God who are scattered abroad. 53 So from that day on they made plans to put him to death. 54 Jesus therefore no longer walked openly among the Jews, but went from there to the region near the wilderness, to a town called Ephraim, and there he stayed with the disciples.

Some of God's old and new covenant children of Israel, are not at all of the blood descendants of Jacob/Israel, through the promises made to Jacob's father Isaac and his father Abraham, but were adopted by Israel, like those of mixed blood that left with Israel in the Exodus out of Egypt, and Ruth (who as formerly non-Israelite became the great-grandmother of King David, from whose lineage Jesus / Yeshua was born) the Moabite. Jesus also welcomed the Canaanite woman from among the Gentiles into the new covenant, that showed she was either of mixed scattered lost Ephraim/Israel blood, or wanted to be adopted into Israel's covenant.


Exodus 12 (NLT)



37 That night the people of Israel left Rameses and started for Succoth. There were about 600,000 men, plus all the women and children. 38 A rabble of non-Israelites went with them, along with great flocks and herds of livestock.


Ruth 1 (ESV)


2 The name of the man was Elimelech and the name of his wife Naomi, and the names of his two sons were Mahlon and Chilion. They were Ephrathites from Bethlehem in Judah. They went into the country of Moab and remained there.

8 But Naomi said to her two daughters-in-law, "Go, return each of you to her mother's house. May the Lord deal kindly with you, as you have dealt with the dead and with me.

15 And she said, "See, your sister-in-law has gone back to her people and to her gods; return after your sister-in-law." 16 But Ruth said, "Do not urge me to leave you or to return from following you. For where you go I will go, and where you lodge I will lodge. Your people shall be my people, and your God my God.


Matthew 15 (ESV)


22 And behold, a Canaanite woman from that region came out and was crying, "Have mercy on me, O Lord, Son of David; my daughter is severely oppressed by a demon." 23 But he did not answer her a word. And his disciples came and begged him, saying, "Send her away, for she is crying out after us." 24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." 25 But she came and knelt before him, saying, "Lord, help me." 26 And he answered, "It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs." 27 She said, "Yes, Lord, yet even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table." 28 Then Jesus answered her, "O woman, great is your faith! Be it done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed instantly.


Under the new covenant God's laws for his chosen people Israel under Jesus / Yeshua (blood and adopted) have not changed, his laws are not any more written on tablets of stone making us slaves of the law, but are now written on our hearts and minds, making our will and obedience in harmony with God's will and law, out of our love for Jesus / Yeshua who wrote those laws on our hearts and minds with his blood atonement.


Hebrews 8 (ESV)


8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel (scattered and adopted Ephramites / Christians among all the nations of the earth) and with the house of Judah (Jews), 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#13
I suppose you meant "Israel only" in your title, not "Isaiah only".

What you need to understand is that the Abrahamic Covenant was made long before Isaiah and Jeremiah, and it includes BOTH the Church as well as redeemed and restored Israel. It also includes Christ as the seed (descendant) of Abraham. Therefore the New Covenant made with Israel applies -- by extension -- to the Church (which includes Gentiles).

GENESIS 15: ABRAM'S SEED: THE NATION OF ISRAEL IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness...
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.


As you can see, this speaks of "Greater Israel" from the Nile to the Euphrates, which will become a reality under Christ in the future.

GENESIS 22: CHRIST AND THE CHURCH AS THE *SEED* OF ABRAHAM
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:..
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice...

Paul speaks of Christ as the seed of Abraham in Galatians 3:16: Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Then Paul speaks of Gentile believers Galatians 3:8,9: And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the Gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

It should be clear to everyone that both the Church and redeemed Israel are under the New Covenant. In spite of this there will be some naysayers who deny that there will be a restored Israel on earth after the Second Coming of Christ.
Am I understanding correctly that the new covenant is for all people? My hang up seems to be with the separation of Israel and gentiles in the OT. My understanding is that I think Israel was created because the other nations turned from God so completely that when scripture speaks of gentiles and other nations in the OT it is speaking of pagans. I understood that God loved the pagans and wanted them to accept Him as their God so He created the Hebrews to teach these gentiles. Gentiles were to see and understand the true God by watching the Hebrews. If this is true, then we are to learn from all God told the Hebrews about Himself. Then God thanked the Hebrews for doing this service for us and we are to thank them, also.

Paul said that God even blinded the Hebrews so they are not accepting Christ as the Messiah, and it is also done for our sakes. We are told, also, that God will never turn His back on the Israelites.

This is taking in so many scripture verses, it is a complete bible study, I am not attempting to give all of them here, but if you think I am wrong, please check with scripture as you explain it to me.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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#14
Paul said that God even blinded the Hebrews so they are not accepting Christ as the Messiah, and it is also done for our sakes. We are told, also, that God will never turn His back on the Israelites.
Under the gospel of the kingdom, the nation Israel was supposed to be the light of the world to bring the gentiles to God. (Zechariah 8:23)

But your causality is mixed up there, Israel was blinded by God because they rejected Christ as their Messiah. But thru that blindness, salvation has now come to the gentiles (Romans 11:11).

But you are correct in that God has never turn his back on Israel, he will return for them once the fulness of the gentiles enter the Body of Christ (Romans 11:25-26).
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
#15
Beware of the error of Replacement Theology as opposed to Two House Theology, where Jesus / Yeshua came to reunite the two houses of Israel (scattered and Gentile-adopted northern Ephramite and southern Jew kingdoms). Jesus / Yeshua is King of blood and adopted Israel, his Church Kingdom here on earth, which he as a Jew, and his Jewish apostles came to establish here on earth. And all Israel, blood and adopted, gathered and scattered throughout all the nations of the earth, were gathered into one by Jesus / Yeshua. The Church is not a different peoples who replaced God's eternal promises to his eternal covenant peoples, Israel. We Christians are Israel of the covenant. There is only one covenant, the new covenant with Israel replace the old covenant with Israel.

oftheCreator.com


Jeremiah 31 (ESV)


31 "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Jeremiah 33 (ESV)


24 "Have you not observed that these people are saying, 'The Lord has rejected the two clans that he chose'? Thus they have despised my people so that they are no longer a nation in their sight. 25 Thus says the Lord: If I have not established my covenant with day and night and the fixed order of heaven and earth, 26 then I will reject the offspring of Jacob and David my servant and will not choose one of his offspring to rule over the offspring of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will restore their fortunes and will have mercy on them."


Hebrews 8 (ESV)


8 For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Ephesians 2 (ESV)


11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh (Gentile-scattered, adopted Ephramites, Ephraim northern kingdom, Assyrian exile into all the nations) , called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel (Jews, Judah southern kingdom, returned already at Jesus' / Yeshua's time from Babylonian captivity) and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances (once written on stone, now written on our hearts, for obedience out of our free will for those who love Jesus / Yeshua for his atonement offering on the cross, and his resurrection that conquered death), that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two (two houses of Israel, Ephramites and Jews, ancient northern and southern split kingdoms of Israel), so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross (the Church of restored Israel, consisting of both Gentile-adopted, scattered Ephraimites and Jews), thereby killing the hostility. 17 And he came and preached peace to you who were far off (Gentile-adopted, scattered Ephraimites) and peace to those who were near (Jews). 18 For through him we both (Gentile-adopted, scattered Ephraim, and Judah) have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God (the Church of restored Israel under King Jesus the Messiah / Yeshua ha'Mashiach), 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. 22 In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by the Spirit (the Church of restored Israel under King Jesus the Messiah / Yeshua ha'Mashiach).
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
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#16
Two house Theology:
oftheCreator.com

Ezekiel 37 (ESV)


1 The hand of the Lord was upon me, and he brought me out in the Spirit of the Lord and set me down in the middle of the valley; it was full of bones. 2 And he led me around among them, and behold, there were very many on the surface of the valley, and behold, they were very dry. 3 And he said to me, "Son of man, can these bones live?" And I answered, "O Lord God, you know." 4 Then he said to me, "Prophesy over these bones, and say to them, O dry bones, hear the word of the Lord. 5 Thus says the Lord God to these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter you, and you shall live. 6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will cause flesh to come upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and you shall live, and you shall know that I am the Lord." 7 So I prophesied as I was commanded. And as I prophesied, there was a sound, and behold, a rattling, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. 8 And I looked, and behold, there were sinews on them, and flesh had come upon them, and skin had covered them. But there was no breath in them. 9 Then he said to me, "Prophesy to the breath; prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath, Thus says the Lord God: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe on these slain, that they may live." 10 So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived and stood on their feet, an exceedingly great army. 11 Then he said to me, "Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. Behold, they say, 'Our bones are dried up, and our hope is lost; we are indeed cut off.' 12 Therefore prophesy, and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will open your graves and raise you from your graves, O my people. And I will bring you into the land of Israel. 13 And you shall know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves, and raise you from your graves, O my people. 14 And I will put my Spirit within you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I am the Lord; I have spoken, and I will do it, declares the Lord." 15 The word of the Lord came to me: 16 "Son of man, take a stick and write on it, 'For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him'; then take another stick and write on it, 'For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.' 17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 18 And when your people say to you, 'Will you not tell us what you mean by these?' 19 say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. 20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, 21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. 22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. 24 "My servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. 25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore."
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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#17
[
To discern the scriptures we have to realise the following:

God's old covenant was with Abraham, through his descendants son Isaac, and grandson Jacob (and Jacob was renamed Israel by God, after he struggled with God and overcame).

God's old covenant with Jacob/Israel was broken by Israel's disobedience (pagan worshipping, offering their children to Baal, etc.), through their disobedience to God's old covenant Israel got split into two kingdoms, the southern kingdom Jews under Judah (tribes of Judah/Benjamin/Levi), and the northern kingdom Ephraimites under Ephraim's half tribe of Joseph son of Jacob (remainder of the twelve tribes of Israel). For them breaking God's covenant the Ephraimites went into a very long Assyrian captivity scattered to all the nations (to this day they have not been regathered and are still identity lost, scattered among the nations, we do not know who their offspring are). For breaking God's covenant the three tribes of Jews (excluding the Ephraimite tribes), went into a short period of captivity to Babylon, retained their identity and returned to the three tribes' of Judah's southern land of Judea (not the complete Israel as the promised land to all twelve tribes).
My understanding of the old covenant is that it has a list of rules that all people who accepts the one true God is to follow. It so happens that anyone who accepted God at that time became Hebrews, so that way it was with Abraham. After Christ came, those rules were put in our hearts, not the inefficient way of writing them in stone.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#18
I suppose you meant "Israel only" in your title, not "Isaiah only".

What you need to understand is that the Abrahamic Covenant was made long before Isaiah and Jeremiah, and it includes BOTH the Church as well as redeemed and restored Israel. It also includes Christ as the seed (descendant) of Abraham. Therefore the New Covenant made with Israel applies -- by extension -- to the Church (which includes Gentiles).

GENESIS 15: ABRAM'S SEED: THE NATION OF ISRAEL IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness...
18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
19 The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.


As you can see, this speaks of "Greater Israel" from the Nile to the Euphrates, which will become a reality under Christ in the future.

GENESIS 22: CHRIST AND THE CHURCH AS THE *SEED* OF ABRAHAM
14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah jireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:..
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice...

Paul speaks of Christ as the seed of Abraham in Galatians 3:16: Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Then Paul speaks of Gentile believers Galatians 3:8,9: And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the Gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

It should be clear to everyone that both the Church and redeemed Israel are under the New Covenant. In spite of this there will be some naysayers who deny that there will be a restored Israel on earth after the Second Coming of Christ.
Thanks!! It was late when I wrote this, could I use that for such a mistake? Or my extremely old age is showing?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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#19
Thanks so much all of you for helping. I'm still stuck in how I understood it. Thank our Lord it is doctrine, and not the gospel of Christ.
 

BenjaminN

Well-known member
Oct 7, 2020
1,504
307
83
#20
[
My understanding of the old covenant is that it has a list of rules that all people who accepts the one true God is to follow. It so happens that anyone who accepted God at that time became Hebrews, so that way it was with Abraham. After Christ came, those rules were put in our hearts, not the inefficient way of writing them in stone.
Yes, even when God made his first covenant with Abraham, he knew that through his son Isaac and his grandson Jacob, that covenant would be broken, and that he would in future make a new covenant (Jesus' / Yeshua's sin atonement offering for those who accept Him as King in their hearts and follow him in obedience to be reunited in the new covenant laws written on our hearts, with the one true God)

God knew the first covenant would be broken in future, and He would have to sacrifice his only begotten Son for all the nations of the earth that would be blessed through the seed of Abraham. God also tested Abraham if Abraham would be willing to do the same with his son Isaac, whom Abraham binded on the altar, before God provided the offering.