You said any knowledge particular to only the elect ( post 473) is a gnostic belief. Paul begs to differ with you
Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"
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You said any knowledge particular to only the elect ( post 473) is a gnostic belief. Paul begs to differ with you
Are only a few chosen? A select few maybe ? But chosen non the less . These ' ones ' the elect . The special ones . The frozen chosen.These will be awakened to reveal they were the chosen all along . That inner group. Now only these ones can know and understand.
What is God’s basis of election in Calvinism?
How did people attain secret knowledge in Gnosticism?
The two answers will show that you are giving similarities that do not exist.
If you don’t know the answer to that, then you cannot equate the Calvinistic view of election with Gnosticism.
So what about the second question. How or why does one receive gnosis in Gnosticism
I think if you look into it, you will see that the gnostic view of who is able to receive what is called Gnosis and the Calvinist view of election are diametrically opposed.
The gnostic system is man based. Something in the person that makes them able to receive the secret gnosis.
In Calvinism, our salvation is not based on anything in man, but wholly on God’s grace
These are diametrically opposed to one another
My last part is right, my middle part is right, and my last part is right.
The "thing" that makes us dead is ORIGINAL SIN.
People receive nothing until they are made aware (by being made alive spriritually) of their need for a savior.
The order is:
born again
hear the message
convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit who now resides in the new man
confesson of guilt
faith in Christ to redeem
HALLELUJAH
These happen within seconds. In an instant of time.
Then its on to grow in understanding
I would absolutely disagree and think that’s a terrible idea to insist we don’t need to believe what God said about being saved .
but I think it’s okay to disagree sometimes . God bless and he did indeed die for our sins and was raised up from the dead . That’s very true
but to be saved I would go with what Jesus said about the matter
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16
I understand we all Have our own opinions I believe the Bible carries a clear message that we should believe in Jesus “opinion “ about salvation . But my faith is in him so that should make sense why I believe what he said about salvation being that he is the only one who can give salvation .
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
John 5:24 KJV
That’s a pretty hard thing to say “ naw Jesus didn’t get it “ I’m positive he does get it and told the truth about it . Not a great idea to go with the salvation that is different from the salvation the savior provided and said there was no mother way
Why must you always flip it like that? Every time you come at it like this. "how much do I have to do?, what's enough to know I'm saved"?
It's such a straw man be cause you're not working to earn something. You already have it, From Him, For FREE, and you know this and I know you know that we know this, "come on man". His Spirit changes us. I can only speak for myself, but I desire to please Him now, and when I do something outside His will then His Spirit lets me know, and convicts me, then guides me back towards all truth. This is what His word says will happen as well. It's in no way trying to earn anything and you always go to this kind of perspective like you're trying to turn it into a works salvation thing. NO! Just NO! We are ALREADY SAVED. Get it, and by His power, always for His glory we WANT to please Him. How do you still struggle with this? You are not at all seeing it clearly, or at all being intellectually fair with what's being said to you. To be honest you seem to have a problem with a Christian who works. Why? Are you doing nothing for the Lord?
Your life, habits, outlook, complete way of thinking from the inside out has not been changed by our Lord Jesus the Christ? I have to imagine it has if you're saved, knowing Him myself and all not to mention this lining up perfectly with His revealed word, but if it hasn't in your life, and works just seem to make you cringe and cause you to always rush to downplay them and state why they are not necessary instead of encouraging them in His work and building the kingdom, then just maybe you haven't been born again. You should seriously soul search yourself if you deny being born again comes with changes. Our very natures are changed by our Creator and we are made whole and reconciled to Him. This is Him letting you KNOW it is all truth, you actually meet, know and are forever connected to God, then you want to argue we could go on to do nothing in His name to point the glory to Him. What you seem to be suggesting makes no sense at all, never, not one of the 1,000's of times you rush in with this point has it ever made sense in light of the truth. Please find another point to crusade against other than the Christian who does works telling everyone it's unnecessary, or whatever point your really making here because you're honestly never that clear about what you're trying to say, what you're main point is. All I gather is you think works are irrelevant and unnecessary, as if it's possible for God to save someone with no purpose, or even more clearly that a saved person can not work for Him, that that's even possible.
You always say and use "do you still sin?" like it ends the argument, and it's such a jerky question to throw out there in this debate. The answer is yes, and because of His mercy, and by His power I HATE it, and I am at war with it in a way impossible outside His power. That is what I've found being born again is, God's power to make us WANT to be more like Him, that His Spirit takes an active role in ever believers life, so this "do you sin" question isn't the "end all" to this argument seem to think it is. Why do Christians promote sinning? Why are you promoting sinning like this, as if we are still defeated by it? You ask that question as if the fact we have to say yes is a good thing. It's just a weird position for a Christian to take in my opinion. Yes we do what we hate, and don't do what we should wretched men that we are, but you know the miracle? THE STRUGGLE inside we could never have in the flesh alone. This tired argument falls flat. Praise Your name Jesus for your children that boldly proclaim Your name in POWER even when "brothers and sisters" discourage it, and speak against the things the Lord has called us to do as if He saves us to do nothing. I love you and pray you light a fire in every single one of them to glorify your name with the personal gifts you've given them to do so with, in Jesus awesome and powerful name. Amen.
Work for my Father for live!!!!!!!!!!
There was no new testament when the apostles delivered the good news. The way of Messiah was an oral tradition.
The order is:
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13¶In whom ye also trusted , after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
0.
Think about that...........the scriptures of the old testament. Those are the scriptures referred to in the New testament.
The actual question would be, what did John Calvin see as the basis for ones election in Calvinism?
John Calvin in essence with his teaching of the Tulip revoked the meaning of the crucifixion.
The frozen chosen?
By your argument here you would demonstrate you are not one of the only ones that can know and understand. Given you appear to not know much about Calvinism.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
scripture is the only thing we possess that is God breathed
Only God is infallible
Therefore, only scripture is infallible
