Observations on the Book of Life

[Corban]

Observations on the Book of Life

The Book of Life presents the contemporary student of scripture with a problem. To first see this problem, we have to investigate resurrection. According to 1st Corinthians 15:22-26 the resurrection of the body of man follows a strict sequence. The sequence is; (i) Christ first, then (ii) “those who are His at His coming”, and finally an “end” where death is defeated by all men being resurrected (as verse 22 says, and seeing as all men proceed from Adam). Searching further into this matter brings to light a sold confirmation of this sequence.

1. Christ was resurrected in about 30 AD
2. The Church will be resurrected “at His Coming” - His “Presence” in the clouds (1st Thess.4:14-17)
3. Israel will be resurrected at His “Revealing” from the clouds (Danl12:2; Matt.24:31; Ezek.37)
4. Revelation 20 then informs us that 1,000 years go by and then “the rest of the dead” are resurrected.

The problem is this; There will be no Christians at the resurrection and judgment of “the rest of the dead” since they were ALL resurrected “at His coming” 1,000 years before. Why then is the Book of Life presented at this judgment of the “rest of the dead”?

Further, it is to be observed that whenever this Book appears in scripture, it is always connected TO WORKS. In;

Exodus 32:33, “… the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.” It is WORKS that get a Jew banned from it. Implied also is the fact that he must already be in it to be blotted out.

Psalm 69:27-28, “Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.” It is again WORKS (iniquity) that gets a man blotted out of this Book. Implied again, is that he must be in it from some earlier point.

Philippians 4:3, “And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.” “yokefellow”, “labor” and “fellow-laborer” is all about WORKS. Here it is openly stated that they are already in it.

Revelation 3:5, “He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.” Here, the Lord talks to Christians. Implied is (i) that they are in the book, but (ii) can be blotted out. And here again WORKS are required

Revelation 13:8, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Here it plainly states that some people are not written in this Book from the beginning. Again, WORKS cause this. “Worship” is something one DOES.

Revelation 20:12, “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Here, the whole plot is confirmed. These are unbelievers, their WORKS are in view, and SOME are written IN the Book and SOME not. Their judgment is based on other Books of their WORKS.

There is a modern saying; A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn't know the answer to. So I do admit having studied this subject, and I do have an already formed opinion. But I still propose, for discussion, the fact that;

1. The Book of Life is a decider on WORKS
2. The Book of Life does not have to do with HAVING eternal life (which is had by faith - Jn.3:14-16)
3. Whether Christian, or Jew, or Gentile, SOME are in this Book from the beginning - and can be cast out, and SOME can be written in - based on WORKS

 

[tourist]

There most likely be persons who became Christian during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ who died but rose from the dead after the conclusion of the millennium and were therefore judged from the Book of Life.

I agree that a judgement will be conducted in regards to any such works performed whether good, bad or ineffective but the works themselves don't have a bearing on salvation but rather for rewards and crowns, if any. Revelation makes it clear that to have eternal life your name must be in the Book of Life, so, in fact, it has a direct bearing on whether eternal life is secured.

I see no problem whatsoever.

 

[stepbystep]

1 Corinthians 15:51 - 58 is a good explanation for me.

 

[Truth7t7]

Observations on the Book of Life

The Book of Life presents the contemporary student of scripture with a problem. To first see this problem, we have to investigate resurrection. According to 1st Corinthians 15:22-26 the resurrection of the body of man follows a strict sequence. The sequence is; (i) Christ first, then (ii) “those who are His at His coming”, and finally an “end” where death is defeated by all men being resurrected (as verse 22 says, and seeing as all men proceed from Adam). Searching further into this matter brings to light a sold confirmation of this sequence.

1. Christ was resurrected in about 30 AD
2. The Church will be resurrected “at His Coming” - His “Presence” in the clouds (1st Thess.4:14-17)
3. Israel will be resurrected at His “Revealing” from the clouds (Danl12:2; Matt.24:31; Ezek.37)
4. Revelation 20 then informs us that 1,000 years go by and then “the rest of the dead” are resurrected.

The problem is this; There will be no Christians at the resurrection and judgment of “the rest of the dead” since they were ALL resurrected “at His coming” 1,000 years before. Why then is the Book of Life presented at this judgment of the “rest of the dead”?

Further, it is to be observed that whenever this Book appears in scripture, it is always connected TO WORKS. In;

Exodus 32:33, “… the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.” It is WORKS that get a Jew banned from it. Implied also is the fact that he must already be in it to be blotted out.

Psalm 69:27-28, “Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.” It is again WORKS (iniquity) that gets a man blotted out of this Book. Implied again, is that he must be in it from some earlier point.

Philippians 4:3, “And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.” “yokefellow”, “labor” and “fellow-laborer” is all about WORKS. Here it is openly stated that they are already in it.

Revelation 3:5, “He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.” Here, the Lord talks to Christians. Implied is (i) that they are in the book, but (ii) can be blotted out. And here again WORKS are required

Revelation 13:8, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Here it plainly states that some people are not written in this Book from the beginning. Again, WORKS cause this. “Worship” is something one DOES.

Revelation 20:12, “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Here, the whole plot is confirmed. These are unbelievers, their WORKS are in view, and SOME are written IN the Book and SOME not. Their judgment is based on other Books of their WORKS.

There is a modern saying; A good lawyer never asks a question he doesn't know the answer to. So I do admit having studied this subject, and I do have an already formed opinion. But I still propose, for discussion, the fact that;

1. The Book of Life is a decider on WORKS
2. The Book of Life does not have to do with HAVING eternal life (which is had by faith - Jn.3:14-16)
3. Whether Christian, or Jew, or Gentile, SOME are in this Book from the beginning - and can be cast out, and SOME can be written in - based on WORKS

I strongly disagree

It's your (Assumption) that there are two separate resurrection, one of the church, and one of Israel?

There will be (One) future resurrection of all John 5:28-29, this takes place on (The Last Day) John 6:39-40 when Jesus Christ returns in the clouds, immediately after the future 3.5 year tribulation Matthew 24:29-30

There will be no future 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom upon this earth, Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Malachi 3:3, 2 Thess 1:7-8

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

 

[Truth7t7]

Revelation 20:12, “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Here, the whole plot is confirmed. These are unbelievers, their WORKS are in view, and SOME are written IN the Book and SOME not. Their judgment is based on other Books of their WORKS.

1. The Book of Life is a decider on WORKS
2. The Book of Life does not have to do with HAVING eternal life (which is had by faith - Jn.3:14-16)
3. Whether Christian, or Jew, or Gentile, SOME are in this Book from the beginning - and can be cast out, and SOME can be written in - based on WORKS

You Falsely suggest (Unbelievers) will be found in the (Book Of Life) based upon works?

100% False

If your not found in the book of life, it's the lake of fire, your claim the book of life has nothing to do with (Eternal Life) is false

Those that died under the law, will be judged by the Law, only the (Doers) of the law are justified, and they will be found in the book of life, those old testament believers who died in faith.

Roman's 2:12-13KJV
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

 

[Yahshua]

Salvation (Justification) isn't the same as eternal life (Glorification). Eternal life is the reward for the work one does to build on the foundation that is the Messiah.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15
13 the work of each will become manifest, for the day will disclose it, because it is revealed in fire, and the fire itself will prove the work of each, what sort it is.

14 If the work of anyone that he built up will remain, he will receive a reward. If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

This is why Messiah's tells the rich man "if you want to enter eternal life obey the commandments". This is also why Paul says anyone who practices works of the flesh absolutely will not inherit the kingdom (i.e. glorification).

The Kingdom = Glorification = Eternal life = written in the book of life.

Salvation/justification breaks one's chains to sin (a work only the Messiah can do), but then it's on us to do good works with the gifts and freedom we've been given to earn the reward of eternal life.

...It's the same way Israel was freed from bondage to Egypt through the Almighty's power - something they couldn't do themselves - but then Israel was expected to obey to enter the promised land (in which all but two of the initial generation failed to enter). They were saved but they never received the promise.

There are also two resurrections: the 1st of the righteous who did good works, and then the 2nd of the wicked.


Daniel 12:2
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.


Those of the 1st resurrection receive their reward (glorification) and will rule/teach those of the nations who are still alive and (presumably) believe in the Messiah but who didn't learn to obey the commandments, so they still can be touched by the 2nd death (i.e. are still mortal). Satan is bound during this 1000 years so he can't continue to deceive as he's already been doing with the scriptures.

Then the wicked of the 2nd resurrection awaken aftwards and are deceived by satan to gather for one last time in a final battle against all the saints. Gog and Magog.

Those of the nations who reject the teachings of the saints during the 1000 years will side with satan and be destroyed.

Revelation 14:12
"Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that (a) keep the commandments of God AND (b) the faith of Messiah."

 

[Truth7t7]

Salvation (Justification) isn't the same as eternal life (Glorification). Eternal life is the reward for the work one does to build on the foundation that is the Messiah.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15
13 the work of each will become manifest, for the day will disclose it, because it is revealed in fire, and the fire itself will prove the work of each, what sort it is.

14 If the work of anyone that he built up will remain, he will receive a reward. If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

This is why Messiah's tells the rich man "if you want to enter eternal life obey the commandments". This is also why Paul says anyone who practices works of the flesh absolutely will not inherit the kingdom (i.e. glorification).

The Kingdom = Glorification = Eternal life = written in the book of life.

Salvation/justification breaks one's chains to sin (a work only the Messiah can do), but then it's on us to do good works with the gifts and freedom we've been given to earn the reward of eternal life.

...It's the same way Israel was freed from bondage to Egypt through the Almighty's power - something they couldn't do themselves - but then Israel was expected to obey to enter the promised land (in which all but two of the initial generation failed to enter). They were saved but they never received the promise.

There are also two resurrections: the 1st of the righteous who did good works, and then the 2nd of the wicked.


Daniel 12:2
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.


Those of the 1st resurrection receive their reward (glorification) and will rule/teach those of the nations who are still alive and (presumably) believe in the Messiah but who didn't learn to obey the commandments, so they still can be touched by the 2nd death (i.e. are still mortal). Satan is bound during this 1000 years so he can't continue to deceive as he's already been doing with the scriptures.

Then the wicked of the 2nd resurrection awaken aftwards and are deceived by satan to gather for one last time in a final battle against all the saints. Gog and Magog.

Those of the nations who reject the teachings of the saints during the 1000 years will side with satan and be destroyed.

Revelation 14:12
"Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that (a) keep the commandments of God AND (b) the faith of Messiah."

There is one faith, and one Lord, both old and new testament believers, there is no remission of sin, without the shedding of blood.

Those believers that die (In faith) under the law of blood Sacrifice for sin.

Those believers that die (In Faith) under the blood sacrificed upon Calvary

There is one future resurrection of all, this takes place on (The Last Day) at the return of Jesus Christ in fire and Final judgement, immediately after the Tribulation, as this earth is dissolved by fire.

There will be no future 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth.

There are (Two Resurrections) on this last day

1.) The Righteous
2.) The Wicked

All that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth, John 5:28-29

 

[Yahshua]

There is one faith, and one Lord

Those that die (In faith) under the law of blood Sacrifice for sin.

Those that die (In Faith) under the blood sacrificed upon Calvary

There is one future resurrection of all, this takes place on (The Last Day) at the return of Jesus Christ in fire and Final judgement, immediately after the Tribulation, as this earth is dissolved by fire.

There will be no future 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom on this earth.

There are (Two Resurrections) on this last day

1.) The Righteous
2.) The Wicked

All that are in the graves shall hear his voice and come forth, John 5:28-29

Yeah, I understand your position on this topic Truth7t7 (as we've engaged each other on this subject a few times now lol), but...I just can't agree because it doesn't harmonize with the following passage in particular:

Revelation 20:6-4
Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!

Q: Who "came to life" during the 1st resurrection?
A: Only "those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands." The rest won't until after 1000 years.

I mean, it's literally stated, isn't it?

 

[Runningman]

Salvation (Justification) isn't the same as eternal life (Glorification). Eternal life is the reward for the work one does to build on the foundation that is the Messiah.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15
13 the work of each will become manifest, for the day will disclose it, because it is revealed in fire, and the fire itself will prove the work of each, what sort it is.

14 If the work of anyone that he built up will remain, he will receive a reward. If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

This is why Messiah's tells the rich man "if you want to enter eternal life obey the commandments". This is also why Paul says anyone who practices works of the flesh absolutely will not inherit the kingdom (i.e. glorification).

The Kingdom = Glorification = Eternal life = written in the book of life.

Salvation/justification breaks one's chains to sin (a work only the Messiah can do), but then it's on us to do good works with the gifts and freedom we've been given to earn the reward of eternal life.

...It's the same way Israel was freed from bondage to Egypt through the Almighty's power - something they couldn't do themselves - but then Israel was expected to obey to enter the promised land (in which all but two of the initial generation failed to enter). They were saved but they never received the promise.

There are also two resurrections: the 1st of the righteous who did good works, and then the 2nd of the wicked.


Daniel 12:2
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.


Those of the 1st resurrection receive their reward (glorification) and will rule/teach those of the nations who are still alive and (presumably) believe in the Messiah but who didn't learn to obey the commandments, so they still can be touched by the 2nd death (i.e. are still mortal). Satan is bound during this 1000 years so he can't continue to deceive as he's already been doing with the scriptures.

Then the wicked of the 2nd resurrection awaken aftwards and are deceived by satan to gather for one last time in a final battle against all the saints. Gog and Magog.

Those of the nations who reject the teachings of the saints during the 1000 years will side with satan and be destroyed.

Revelation 14:12
"Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that (a) keep the commandments of God AND (b) the faith of Messiah."

How do you mesh that with 1 John 5:9-13 which promotes an eternal life based purely on receiving the testimony of Jesus Christ by believing?

9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[Yahshua]

How do you mesh that with 1 John 5:9-13 which promotes an eternal life based purely on receiving the testimony of Jesus Christ by believing?

9If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11And this is the testimony, that God gave us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.
13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life.

Well, to set the foundation...

John 1:1
"In the beginning was the WORD..."

Matthew 4:4
"...It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word which goes out through God's mouth."

John 6:63
It is the Spirit giving life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit and they are life.

John 6:40
And this is the will of Him that sent Me: that every one who seeth the Son and believeth in Him may have everlasting life, and I will raise him up at the Last Day.

John 8:43
Why don't you understand my speech? Because you can't hear my word.


To believe in a witness is to believe in that person's testimony. Likewise, to believe in The Faithful Witness, The Messiah, is to believe in His Words. So what did the Messiah testify to? What was His message? What did He say? What was the gospel the Messiah preached?


Matthew 4:17
From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is near.”

Matthew 19:17 & 21
Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments...21 then follow me.

Mark 1:15
The time is fulfilled,” He said, “and the kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe in the gospel!”

John 8:11
“No one, Lord,” she answered. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”


Matthew 16:24, 26-27
24Then Jesus told His disciples, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow Me.

26 What will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

27 For the Son of Man will come in His Father’s glory with His angels, and then He will repay each one according to what he has done.


The Son is the Word. To have the Son in us is to have His words in us, and His words are true.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yeah, I understand your position on this topic Truth7t7 (as we've engaged each other on this subject a few times now lol), but...I just can't agree because it doesn't harmonize with the following passage in particular:

Revelation 20:6-4
Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5 The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection!

Q: Who "came to life" during the 1st resurrection?
A: Only "those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands." The rest won't until after 1000 years.

I mean, it's literally stated, isn't it?

The Scripture is simply stating in verse 4, is that those seen are (Tribulation Saints) the rest of the dead are those not mentioned as Tribulation saints

Both the dead Tribulation saints mentioned and the rest of the dead saved will take part in the (First Resurrection) to life, the (Second Resurrection) is of the wicked to the (Second Death) in the Lake of fire.

There is only one future resurrection of all that have lived, this takes place on (The Last Day) your teaching has multiple resurrections of those that have died in faith, this is contrary to John 5:28-29, and the words (All That Are In The Graves Shall Hear His Voice And Come Forth), it's also contrary to the last day resurrection seen in John 6:39-40

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day

Revelation 20:4-6KJV
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Corban]

There most likely be persons who became Christian during the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ who died but rose from the dead after the conclusion of the millennium and were therefore judged from the Book of Life.

I agree that a judgement will be conducted in regards to any such works performed whether good, bad or ineffective but the works themselves don't have a bearing on salvation but rather for rewards and crowns, if any. Revelation makes it clear that to have eternal life your name must be in the Book of Life, so, in fact, it has a direct bearing on whether eternal life is secured.

I see no problem whatsoever.

I think that there is a problem. According to John 3:14-16, eternal life is only to be had by FAITH. And according to Hebrews 11:1, the definition of FAITH is the hope and substance of things UNSEEN. From the moment that our Lord Jesus bursts forth from the clouds over the Mount of Olives, He is SEEN. Faith thus has an end. Nobody can be born again, or have eternal life after that glorious moment.

 

[Corban]

1 Corinthians 15:51 - 58 is a good explanation for me.

Could be, but you'd have to explain that, for neither the Book of Life, nor Works, nor eternal life are mentioned in that text.

 

[Truth7t7]

Could be, but you'd have to explain that, for neither the Book of Life, nor Works, nor eternal life are mentioned in that text.

Eternal life is shown below, at the 7th and Last Trump, the Eternal state begins,the eternal glorified body's received, death is swallowed up in victory, (Eternal Life) begins at this point.

1 Corinthians 15:51-58KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

 

[Yahshua]

your teaching has multiple resurrections of those that have died in faith

No I'm not saying there are multiple resurrections of those who have died in faith. The groups are:

Group 1) Those who have died in faith (in Messiah)...these join the living faithful...
Group 2) Those who have died not believing (in Messiah)

It's even in the passage you shared. The 2nd group is those who have "done evil" (John 5:29) in their lives (i.e. Hitler, Stalin, Charles Manson, etc).

Indeed there is only one whose voice can and will wake the dead and that is the Messiah's. ALL in the grave - whether good or evil - will definitely hear His voice. But you're assuming that since your passage is stating a fact that it's also detailing the process when Revelation literally says "after 1000 years are finished" those who had the mark, etc will rise.

I think you're trying to shoehorn the time of tribulation in here but according to the prophecies, the tribulation occurs before the 1st resurrection.

 

[Corban]

I strongly disagree

It's your (Assumption) that there are two separate resurrection, one of the church, and one of Israel?

There will be (One) future resurrection of all John 5:28-29, this takes place on (The Last Day) John 6:39-40 when Jesus Christ returns in the clouds, immediately after the future 3.5 year tribulation Matthew 24:29-30

There will be no future 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom upon this earth, Jesus Christ returns in fire and Final judgement, dissolving this earth by fire, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Malachi 3:3, 2 Thess 1:7-8

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Your premise is strongly suspect. Whether you take Revelation 20 metaphorically or literally, there is a 1,000 year reign. In the time, literal or metaphorical, Satan will be bound and there will be dead men. What you have to do is give your reasons for assigning a metaphorical value to the 1,000 years. It is mentioned SIX times in 5 verses - THREE times as "A thousand years", and THREE times as "THE thousand years". If Satan, Christ, His throne are all literal, this is just another proof that the 1,000 years is literal.

Then, independent of that problem, you have to deal with my arguments.

And finally, if you look closely at your proffered verses, not one of them addresses the Book of Life.

 

[Corban]

You Falsely suggest (Unbelievers) will be found in the (Book Of Life) based upon works?

100% False

If your not found in the book of life, it's the lake of fire, your claim the book of life has nothing to do with (Eternal Life) is false

Those that died under the law, will be judged by the Law, only the (Doers) of the law are justified, and they will be found in the book of life, those old testament believers who died in faith.

Roman's 2:12-13KJV
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

I'll wait for you to address my arguments before I deal with Romans 2:12-13. It neither mentions, not alludes to, eternal life or the Book of Life.

 

[Corban]

Salvation (Justification) isn't the same as eternal life (Glorification). Eternal life is the reward for the work one does to build on the foundation that is the Messiah.

1 Corinthians 3:13-15
13 the work of each will become manifest, for the day will disclose it, because it is revealed in fire, and the fire itself will prove the work of each, what sort it is.

14 If the work of anyone that he built up will remain, he will receive a reward. If the work of anyone will be burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.

This is why Messiah's tells the rich man "if you want to enter eternal life obey the commandments". This is also why Paul says anyone who practices works of the flesh absolutely will not inherit the kingdom (i.e. glorification).

The Kingdom = Glorification = Eternal life = written in the book of life.

Salvation/justification breaks one's chains to sin (a work only the Messiah can do), but then it's on us to do good works with the gifts and freedom we've been given to earn the reward of eternal life.

...It's the same way Israel was freed from bondage to Egypt through the Almighty's power - something they couldn't do themselves - but then Israel was expected to obey to enter the promised land (in which all but two of the initial generation failed to enter). They were saved but they never received the promise.

There are also two resurrections: the 1st of the righteous who did good works, and then the 2nd of the wicked.


Daniel 12:2
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.


Those of the 1st resurrection receive their reward (glorification) and will rule/teach those of the nations who are still alive and (presumably) believe in the Messiah but who didn't learn to obey the commandments, so they still can be touched by the 2nd death (i.e. are still mortal). Satan is bound during this 1000 years so he can't continue to deceive as he's already been doing with the scriptures.

Then the wicked of the 2nd resurrection awaken aftwards and are deceived by satan to gather for one last time in a final battle against all the saints. Gog and Magog.

Those of the nations who reject the teachings of the saints during the 1000 years will side with satan and be destroyed.

Revelation 14:12
"Here is the patience of the saints; here are they that (a) keep the commandments of God AND (b) the faith of Messiah."

Thanks for your reply. I think that you are headed in the right direction, but you'll draw quite some flack for stating;

and freedom we've been given to earn the reward of eternal life.

The whole Reformation was to squash that idea.

 

[Corban]

Eternal life is shown below, at the 7th and Last Trump, the Eternal state begins,the eternal glorified body's received, death is swallowed up in victory, (Eternal Life) begins at this point.

1 Corinthians 15:51-58KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

I'm afraid you've mixed REBIRTH and ETERNAL LIFE with RESURRECTION LIFE. Eternal Life is the Life, Vitality and Nature of God. Resurrection LIFE is HUMAN life. Eternal Life concerns the human SPIRIT (Jn.3:6). Resurrection Life concerns the BODY (1st Cor.15:35). Your proposed text does not address eternal life. It concerns those who are living at the time of the Revealing of Jesus from heaven. The will not die, so they cannot get their resurrection BODY by the normal way. They are rather CHANGED.

And ... nothwithstanding your right to post whatever you like, you did not enter the argument in the OP. The thread is about the facts surrounding the Book of Life. You'll forgive me if I don't get diverted to other subjects.

 

[tourist]

I think that there is a problem. According to John 3:14-16, eternal life is only to be had by FAITH. And according to Hebrews 11:1, the definition of FAITH is the hope and substance of things UNSEEN. From the moment that our Lord Jesus bursts forth from the clouds over the Mount of Olives, He is SEEN. Faith thus has an end. Nobody can be born again, or have eternal life after that glorious moment.

Jesus was rejected as the Messiah by the Jews even though He was seen and His divine power manifested in the many miracles that He performed. Faith remains in those that indeed have faith. Jesus often praised those that had faith in Him and did not say that having obtained that which was by faith that they now no longer had faith. It does not make spiritual sense that once you have eternal life by faith that the faith that produced it no longer exists.