Propitiation – The Sacrifice that Atoned

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans 10:4 says "end" in most translations

Thanks have to check it out☺️

Here you go

greek english lexicon of the new testament
telos
1. end,
a. termination, the limit at which a thing ceases to be,
b. the end i. e. the last in any succession or series:
c. that by which, a thing is finished, its close, issue:
d. the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose:

2. toll, custom,
1. a renter or farmer of taxes
2. a tax-gatherer, collector of taxes or tolls,

I think we can all agree number 2 does not fit in co text..lol

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Lordship salvation is a docrtrine from hell...


EASY BELIEVEISM are words that try to take away your peace with God and dimish the efficacy of the shed blood of Christ. John MacDonald was one of the leaders in this dotrine from hell..........I am so thankful that the Holy Spirit has shielded the minds of God's children to reject this apostary.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

right back at ya

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Lordship salvation is apostasy.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

You seem to have a comprehension problem. What I stated is true and is found all over scripture, And is proven in one passage

he who believes is not condemned, these are those who in faith receive the offer of propitiation, salvation, justification knew birth etc etc

who who does Not believe is condemned already because they have not believe...these are those who were offered the same things the first group were offered. But chose to reject in unbelief.

as for my defenition, I gave the Greek defenition, your argument is with them not me

Your're the one with the comprehension problem .... since you want to get personal about this.
Your added words to not make scripture say what you want it to say no matter how hard you try.
And you know as well as I do (maybe) that definitions of aGreek word are further defined by the context.

the same forgiveness is offered to all, but not all will recieve it YOUR WORDS that you have yet to show me in the bible
Could it be because they are not there.....nor any verses close to that statement?

 

[Blain]

Understanding of this ONE WORD forever refutes the false teaching that Christ died for every single person. That Christ died for all men is true, but the “all men” He died for were all believers. All of that group.

1 John 4:10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loves us and sent His Son to be the propitiation of our sins.

God is immutably just and His moral excellence demands punishment or expiation for sin.
( to expiate a sin is to make atonement for, reconciling the offender to God)​

Satisfaction of God’s justice is necessary if sin is to be forgiven.
Christ was set forth as the propitiation in order that God might be just in justifying the ungodly. If sin could be pardoned without satisfaction “then Christ died in vain” (Galatians 2:21)

No other propitiation is needed and no other is possible.

Expiation and propitiation go together. The sinner is expiated by the atonement, and God’s justice is propitiated.

Romans 3:25 (Jesus Christ) whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed v26 that He might be just AND the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Hebrews 2:17 Therefor He had to be made like His brethren in all things, that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make PROPITIATION for the sins of the people.

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only but also for those of the whole world (read 1 John 2: 1-10 for the fullness of the text) John’s use of the wider sense of ‘world’ extends the propitiation into the future for God’s people in all generations.

If Christ was the propitiation for EVERY man, then every man is justified and is not under wrath, for this is the true meaning of propitiation: that Christ reconciled man to God by His blood, and the reconciled man is not under judgment but is saved from wrath

example: when the priests of the OT made sacrifice (propitiation) for the people, it was for a PARTICULAR people of a particular group, and not for ALL people.

Firstly this only proves that Jesus's sacrafice appeased God for the remission of sin but you say in the fisrt line it was only for believers but when we believe and are saved are sins are wiped clean however one is still a sinner until this happens so how does this in any way prove it was not for all mankind if one has to first accept him to be free from the wrath of God? if anything it only proves he died for all mankind for anyone who would come to him and accept him you cannot believe and be saved if you are already a believer all you do when you claim this is lessen Christs sacrifice

As for how you use the word do you know the origins of that word? it an english translation of the word kapporeth rooted from the OT to mean covering it was first translation from this hebrew language to the original greek and then became the english word we know today however when used in the original hebrew language it is not a covering of a certain people but used as an infinite everlasting one

You try to use this word to limit his sacrifice and love and grace and yet because you do now understand the actual meaning of the word and how the context of the word is used you fail in your endeavor. I understand you are a catholic at least if I am not mistaken you are but if you are I truly feel sorry for you and I mean this with no disrespect. I do not believe all cathpolics are not saved like many Christians do but the yoke they place themselves on and the lack of love and simplicity they have with our father sorrows my heart

From the experiences I have had wioth other catholics they read the bible with a carnal mind the relationship they have with God is not one of a child and loving father this isn't to say all catholics are like this but from the ones I have encountered this is how it was. As for you you need to first gain more understanding before you try to prove your belief because you only disproved yourself in your post

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.2.2.ESV

 

[Nehemiah6]

Lordship salvation is apostasy.

More nonsense from the one who calls himself GraceAndTruth.

Therefore let all the house of Israel [AND THE WHOLE WORLD] know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. (Acts 2:36).

 

[Nehemiah6]

I am guessing this Thread is intended to promote Calvin's Ideology?

You're absolutely correct. And you used the term "ideology" correctly also. TULIP is not theology but ideology to undermine the true and pure Gospel of God. It is man-made and requires the twisting of Scripture in order to make sense.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

Limited atonement is blasphemy.
The finished work of Jesus is unlimited, disbelief/rejection is the only thing that stops one from attaining it.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

Firstly this only proves that Jesus's sacrafice appeased God for the remission of sin but you say in the fisrt line it was only for believers but when we believe and are saved are sins are wiped clean however one is still a sinner until this happens so how does this in any way prove it was not for all mankind if one has to first accept him to be free from the wrath of God? if anything it only proves he died for all mankind for anyone who would come to him and accept him you cannot believe and be saved if you are already a believer all you do when you claim this is lessen Christs sacrifice

As for how you use the word do you know the origins of that word? it an english translation of the word kapporeth rooted from the OT to mean covering it was first translation from this hebrew language to the original greek and then became the english word we know today however when used in the original hebrew language it is not a covering of a certain people but used as an infinite everlasting one

You try to use this word to limit his sacrifice and love and grace and yet because you do now understand the actual meaning of the word and how the context of the word is used you fail in your endeavor. I understand you are a catholic at least if I am not mistaken you are but if you are I truly feel sorry for you and I mean this with no disrespect. I do not believe all cathpolics are not saved like many Christians do but the yoke they place themselves on and the lack of love and simplicity they have with our father sorrows my heart

From the experiences I have had wioth other catholics they read the bible with a carnal mind the relationship they have with God is not one of a child and loving father this isn't to say all catholics are like this but from the ones I have encountered this is how it was. As for you you need to first gain more understanding before you try to prove your belief because you only disproved yourself in your post

Unless you are proposing universal salvation you must come to the conclusion that the propitiation was for one group of people, believers. You can believe anything you want to but Jesus said "a little leaven spoils the whole." I take that to mean one either has correct doctrine (TRUTH) or a mixture of truth with apostasy.

I think we can trust our translators to have given us a trustworthy bible. God has preserved His word to His people for centuries. Some words give some people a problem, but if put in context the definitions are obvious. And we can rely on the bible interpreting the bible. All of it is from the One essence. If they are still a problem then the problem is the reader.

Don't know why you mentioned catholics. I am not a catholic but they do have a whole lot of leaven in their dogmas.

 

[GraceAndTruth]

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.2.2.ESV

So you advocate universal salvation??.........because if the propitiation was for the every person in the world, then not one person left unsaved.

You have no idea what propitiation means.
When the propitiation was made by Christ.....it was when His blood was shed on the cross to pay the sin debt for His people. God demanded a sacrifice of blood to be spread on the mercy seat in the temple....The blood of Christ replaced that offering with His own blood. Once for all time. It reconciles man to God. It is the reason we are SAVED from the penalty of our sin.

That verse you quoted is a favoite of universalists. I am not going into the definitions of the word, world....its like the word ALL, different meanings for different verses....."all of a group" "all people everywhere" etc.

 

[Blackpowderduelist]

So you advocate universal salvation??.........because if the propitiation was for the every person in the world, then not one person left unsaved.

You have no idea what propitiation means.
When the propitiation was made by Christ.....it was when His blood was shed on the cross to pay the sin debt for His people. God demanded a sacrifice of blood to be spread on the mercy seat in the temple....The blood of Christ replaced that offering with His own blood. Once for all time. It reconciles man to God. It is the reason we are SAVED from the penalty of our sin.

That verse you quoted is a favoite of universalists. I am not going into the definitions of the word, world....its like the word ALL, different meanings for different verses....."all of a group" "all people everywhere" etc.

Let me see if I can communicate via an analogy. It's like someone going into a prison and unlocking all the cells and leaving the front gate open, and then warning that the prison will be destroyed in a few days. Only those who leave are actually saved even though salvation was there for everyone.

 

[Blain]

Unless you are proposing universal salvation you must come to the conclusion that the propitiation was for one group of people, believers. You can believe anything you want to but Jesus said "a little leaven spoils the whole." I take that to mean one either has correct doctrine (TRUTH) or a mixture of truth with apostasy.

I think we can trust our translators to have given us a trustworthy bible. God has preserved His word to His people for centuries. Some words give some people a problem, but if put in context the definitions are obvious. And we can rely on the bible interpreting the bible. All of it is from the One essence. If they are still a problem then the problem is the reader.

Don't know why you mentioned catholics. I am not a catholic but they do have a whole lot of leaven in their dogmas.

Ok so you say it was only for believers but who were we before we came to Christ? salfation is called a gift in scripture for a reason a gift is given but one is not forced to take it we have accept his gift in order to be saved and be believers it is a gift offered to all but not all take the gift.
As for what you quoted about Jesus when he said this he had not yet died and risen from the dead and thus the new covanent had not yet been established so when he said this he was talking to the Jews at that time because leaven bread was something they could relate to and understand

And as for trusting translators I cannot fully agree some of the translations show clear differences in the usage of words and their meaning as well as the context, it is important to find the truth of the matter for yourself and also the interesting thing about the hebrew language is that the depth of each word it's meaning underlined message even just the contexted of how it used is so deeply profound this is why I mentioned it because the word you used in our language means one thing and is used in a certain way but according to the original language in which the word was translated from it means something else and is used differently

As for why I mentioned the Catholics you did say you were a tulip correct?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your're the one with the comprehension problem .... since you want to get personal about this.
Your added words to not make scripture say what you want it to say no matter how hard you try.
And you know as well as I do (maybe) that definitions of aGreek word are further defined by the context.

the same forgiveness is offered to all, but not all will recieve it YOUR WORDS that you have yet to show me in the bible
Could it be because they are not there.....nor any verses close to that statement?

Yawn

for god so loved the world....

whoever believes vs whoever does not believe

the lord is not willing any to perish

just To name a few.

I know your answers, that’s why I get personal, we have had this discussion many times, and this will be no different

you will twist the word so it suits your belief then tell me again I have not proven my point or showed scripture

broken record. Do we continue this nonsense?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 2:2 ESV
https://bible.com/bible/59/1jn.2.2.ESV

Amen, it just us (belieVers) But the whole world

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you advocate universal salvation??.........because if the propitiation was for the every person in the world, then not one person left unsaved.

You have no idea what propitiation means.
When the propitiation was made by Christ.....it was when His blood was shed on the cross to pay the sin debt for His people. God demanded a sacrifice of blood to be spread on the mercy seat in the temple....The blood of Christ replaced that offering with His own blood. Once for all time. It reconciles man to God. It is the reason we are SAVED from the penalty of our sin.

That verse you quoted is a favoite of universalists. I am not going into the definitions of the word, world....its like the word ALL, different meanings for different verses....."all of a group" "all people everywhere" etc.

Again you have a comprehension problem

your wrong it is not universal salvation

propitiqtion is the means by which the offer of forgiveness is available, it is not salvation in itself

 

[Blain]

So you advocate universal salvation??.........because if the propitiation was for the every person in the world, then not one person left unsaved.

You have no idea what propitiation means.
When the propitiation was made by Christ.....it was when His blood was shed on the cross to pay the sin debt for His people. God demanded a sacrifice of blood to be spread on the mercy seat in the temple....The blood of Christ replaced that offering with His own blood. Once for all time. It reconciles man to God. It is the reason we are SAVED from the penalty of our sin.

That verse you quoted is a favoite of universalists. I am not going into the definitions of the word, world....its like the word ALL, different meanings for different verses....."all of a group" "all people everywhere" etc.

I don't know why you keep going to universal salvation no one has said anything of the sort salvation is a gift an opportunity for all it is a choice given freely but not all will take it however conrtast to what your saying limiting salvation to only a certain people then I would rather universal salvation be a thing. I have personally seen and been to hell I would rather I take someone elses place for a time than for anyone to have experience what I saw there

Jesus did something so amazing and so gracious in offering his own life so that all may have a chance to be saved from that place if you saw what I saw then you might not be so quick to promote limited salvation.

 

[stepbystep]

Understanding of this ONE WORD forever refutes the false teaching that Christ died for every single person. That Christ died for all men is true, but the “all men” He died for were all believers. All of that group.

A big shame on you for being so insulting. I'm sure you weren't raised to act like that.
I cannot imagine being so arrogant as to tell another person you pity them because they don't believe whatever your doctrines are, inferring they are not saved.......as you judged me.

Just to be clear. Above are two comments from you. The first is the basic principal of Calvinism. The second is an overreaction to my comment.

I was not judging you, I was commenting on the post you published. I also made it quite clear that I DO NOT judge anyone who believes in Calvin's ideology, I just feel sad for them. That is no where near saying someone IS NOT saved!

The idea that Jesus did not die for the sins OF ALL MANKIND goes against His Gospel completely I believe. It also goes against many Scriptures that say He did shed His blood for ALL MANKIND.

The caveat is as is stated in John 3:16. "Whosoever believeth....." The shed blood of Jesus is available to ALL, and those who repent, and turn to God and ask for forgiveness will have His blood applied to their lives and will be cleansed of their sins. Saved. The key is that His blood is AVAILABLE TO ALL, thus He died FOR ALL.

If you were insulted, sorry about that, but you appear to be knowledgeable in Scripture, and, being so, you should know that the idea posed in your 1st comment is the basis for Calvin's ideology. This one:

Understanding of this ONE WORD forever refutes the false teaching that Christ died for every single person. That Christ died for all men is true, but the “all men” He died for were all believers. All of that group.

I could have easily attacked you, and chastised you for "insulting" me and calling me a "false teacher" for that comment, since I do not agree with it, but I did not. Nor did accuse you of not being saved.

Maybe there is "shame" to go around?

 

[Journeyman]

Jesus is the propitiation because he's one with the Father, perfectly showing how he is.

Jesus did not condemn or destroy the people who sinned against him. He continued to show love toward people, even when they spoke against him, spit on him, abused him.

If people did those things to us, we would hate them and want punished or hurt them in return.

But Jesus propitiated his anger against sinners.