Works error

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throughfaith said:
I think that you don't understand this question.
Find me a scripture that says that's how we recieve Jesus and the Holy Spirit please ?
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We have been discussing Romans 12:1-2 in numerous posts. How can you not see that to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, which is to leave our worldly carnal ways, which then makes us Holy and acceptable before God, not how we receive Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

We become Holy and acceptable. If we become acceptable, are we then not accepted and receive Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
 
luigi said:
We have been discussing Romans 12:1-2 in numerous posts. How can you not see that to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, which is to leave our worldly carnal ways, which then makes us Holy and acceptable before God, not how we receive Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

We become Holy and acceptable. If we become acceptable, are we then not accepted and receive Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Click to expand...

is that how we recieve Jesus and the Holy Spirit ?
 
Hello Ogam, I have tried to reply to your post, but for some reason this site is not allowing me to do so.
I agree with with what you state, that if something is difficult to accept, it is then likely that it may be due to it being incorrect.
 
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throughfaith said:
The hardest thing to accept is to live in the fact of our eternal security.
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if it's difficult to accept then it might not be true. God gave us minds and intuition and thinking abilities and the ability to experience things and learn new things, and test things, and prove whether true or false daily and over time.

we don't have to live with impossible to believe things weighing us down of religious inclinations of mind and doctrines of men (not God) handed down to us over the Centuries but instead can listen and learn from the Spirit and seek God and ask Him why certain doctrines and Dogma are so hard to accept and what is the Truth and if He'll reveal it to us.

it's been my experience that He will and does, but we may need to seek and question first, not just accept what we already believe to be true (God knows better than doctrines and dogma because He knows everything but mankind who makes up teachings and doctrines to believe throughout time based on their limited, very limited understanding of the Bible and life - does not know always what they are talking about).
 
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throughfaith said:
is that how we recieve Jesus and the Holy Spirit ?
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Do you wish to reply to me with the basic understanding that we must confess with our mouths the Lord Jesus, and believe in our hearts that God hath raised him from the dead is how we are saved. To confess the Lord Jesus is confess what the Lord Jesus confessed, which is a spiritual life. And like I said previously, to believe in Christ is to believe in what Christ believes, which is in a spiritual life. To believe in a spiritual life, means we will then leave our worldly carnal lives in order to attain this spiritual life, at which point, the Lord God who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead, shall likewise raise your dead in sin carnally inclined heart, into a living spiritually inclined heart. Do you see how the scriptures fit together?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
 
luigi said:
Do you wish to reply to me with the basic understanding that we must confess with our mouths the Lord Jesus, and believe in our hearts that God hath raised him from the dead is how we are saved. To confess the Lord Jesus is confess what the Lord Jesus confessed, which is a spiritual life. And like I said previously, to believe in Christ is to believe in what Christ believes, which is in a spiritual life. To believe in a spiritual life, means we will then leave our worldly carnal lives in order to attain this spiritual life, at which point, the Lord God who raised the Lord Jesus from the dead, shall likewise raise your dead in sin carnally inclined heart, into a living spiritually inclined heart. Do you see how the scriptures fit together?

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
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Why are you adding to Romans 10,9 ?
The bible explains just fine. What your adding is false. Rom 10,9,10 is how we recieve Jesus john 1 .12 and how we recieve the Holy spirit . Eph 1 . 12-13..Let the scriptures speak on how we recieve.
 
throughfaith said:
Why are you adding to Romans 10,9 ?
The bible explains just fine. What your adding is false. Rom 10,9,10 is how we recieve Jesus john 1 .12 and how we recieve the Holy spirit . Eph 1 . 12-13..Let the scriptures speak on how we recieve.
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My perspective takes all the Word together. I do not cherry pick some some scriptures, while dismissing other scriptures in the Word, so that I may continue in a worldly way. Those who choose this cherry picking way, shall never know the truth, and thereby never be free from their worldly way.
 
luigi said:
My perspective takes all the Word together. I do not cherry pick some some scriptures, while dismissing other scriptures in the Word, so that I may continue in a worldly way. Those who choose this cherry picking way, shall never know the truth, and thereby never be free from their worldly way.
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so, you are saying you have no worldly ways left in you? none?
 
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luigi said:
We have been discussing Romans 12:1-2 in numerous posts. How can you not see that to offer our bodies as living sacrifices, which is to leave our worldly carnal ways, which then makes us Holy and acceptable before God, not how we receive Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

We become Holy and acceptable. If we become acceptable, are we then not accepted and receive Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Click to expand...
No Paul is not telling unbelievers to offer their bodies as a living sacrifice. Its talking about those that have already recieved Jesus and recieved the Holy Spirit. Have you read Romans ?
 
luigi said:
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe
in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
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Romans10-9s.png


Romans 10:9 :)
 
Ogom said:
if it's difficult to accept then it might not be true. God gave us minds and intuition and thinking abilities and the ability to experience things and learn new things, and test things, and prove whether true or false daily and over time.

we don't have to live with impossible to believe things weighing us down of religious inclinations of mind and doctrines of men (not God) handed down to us over the Centuries but instead can listen and learn from the Spirit and seek God and ask Him why certain doctrines and Dogma are so hard to accept and what is the Truth and if He'll reveal it to us.

it's been my experience that He will and does, but we may need to seek and question first, not just accept what we already believe to be true (God knows better than doctrines and dogma because He knows everything but mankind who makes up teachings and doctrines to believe throughout time based on their limited, very limited understanding of the Bible and life - does not know always what they are talking about).
Click to expand...
No many Christians begin in the spirit and then are trying to be made perfect in the flesh . Paul said this is foolish .
Gal 3 .
2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
 
gb9 said:
so, you are saying you have no worldly ways left in you? none?
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I am not saying that at all. I continue to sin here and there, but I know that I need to continue to try to overcome these worldly inclinations, as the Lord in Revelation 2 & 3 tells the churches.
 
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throughfaith said:
No Paul is not telling unbelievers to offer their bodies as a living sacrifice. Its talking about those that have already recieved Jesus and recieved the Holy Spirit. Have you read Romans ?
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Romans 12:1 clearly states to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice. And yes I have read Romans as well as the rest of the Bible numerous times, and continue to do so.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
 
Magenta said:
Romans10-9s.png


Romans 10:9:)
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Do you know what declaring with one's mouth the Lord Jesus means? It means declaring what the Lord Jesus declared.

Why do think those in Matthew 7:21-23 whom will have declared the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus will declare to them, Him never have known them? It is because they never believed in what the Lord Jesus declared about the spirit, and will have continued in their worldly carnal inclinations which are works of iniquity.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
luigi said:
Romans 12:1 clearly states to offer our bodies as a living sacrifice. And yes I have read Romans as well as the rest of the Bible numerous times, and continue to do so.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Click to expand...
Yes as those that have received Jesus and have been already sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption they should offer there bodies as a living sacrifice. As its completely reasonable in light of how secure the believer is and he is already predestined to be glorified after he believed. Eph 1 .12-13 . Eph 4.30 . And whats your point ? its not a requirement to be converted . Its not a requirement to stay saved . The information is towards believers not unbelievers? Notice Paul starts off with what believers have and then in light of what they HAVE they ought to DO . Your looking at the DO and interpreting that as ' in order to have ' .
 
luigi said:
Do you know what declaring with one's mouth the Lord Jesus means? It means declaring what the Lord Jesus declared.

Why do think those in Matthew 7:21-23 whom will have declared the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus will declare to them, Him never have known them? It is because they never believed in what the Lord Jesus declared about the spirit, and will have continued in their worldly carnal inclinations which are works of iniquity.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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I do not see where it says of those Jesus does not know, that they ever declared as Scripture says we must. What it does say, is they were doing works in His name. Works do not save us.
 
Through Christ our sins are wiped out, gone, we are this righteous perfect person. Why would we then want to add sin to this perfection? It is enough that we know we will fall, it is in that we don't want to fall. The Lord puts it this way: repent.
 
luigi said:
Do you know what declaring with one's mouth the Lord Jesus means? It means declaring what the Lord Jesus declared.

Why do think those in Matthew 7:21-23 whom will have declared the Lord Jesus, the Lord Jesus will declare to them, Him never have known them? It is because they never believed in what the Lord Jesus declared about the spirit, and will have continued in their worldly carnal inclinations which are works of iniquity.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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He NEVER knew them . Thats the point .
 
throughfaith said:
He NEVER knew them . Thats the point .
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you say ///Do you know what declaring with one's mouth the Lord Jesus means? It means declaring what the Lord Jesus declared/// nonsense. Your making things up . It means exactly what it say s . Jesus is kurios. It means believe that Jesus is Lord ( God ) Thats it .Good grief man.
 
Magenta said:
I do not see where it says of those Jesus does not know, that they ever declared as Scripture says we must. What it does say, is they were doing works in His name. Works do not save us.
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A reasonable assessment of someone who prophecies in the name of Jesus, is that that individual supposed the basics of declaring Jesus as Lord and believing that God raised Jesus from the dead. If they did not believe in these basics, they would never have prophesied in Jesus' name in the first place.
 
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