Faith without works is dead - Bonhoeffer
- Thread starter MyrtleTrees
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
E
James 2:18-19 - James introducing an objection to his thesis.
So to quote James 2:18 as truth is a problem. It is quoting an objector as truth.
Suffice it to say that James is not a letter concerning ``mental assent`` nor is it about works proving sanctification.
He is writing about the profitable life and works energizing faith.
So to quote James 2:18 as truth is a problem. It is quoting an objector as truth.
Suffice it to say that James is not a letter concerning ``mental assent`` nor is it about works proving sanctification.
He is writing about the profitable life and works energizing faith.
No - I think he was clearly talking about the need of the assent of one's will in order to get saved:
Mark 8:34-37
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
KJV
To lose one's soul - means to end up in hell.
Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV
The rich young ruler wasn't willing to make a willful choice to accept salvation, if it meant giving away all of his wealth to the poor. That shows he loved his riches more than his wish to go to heaven.
Matt 19:21-24
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
KJV
Mark 8:34-37
34 And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
37 Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?
KJV
To lose one's soul - means to end up in hell.
Matt 10:28
28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
KJV
The rich young ruler wasn't willing to make a willful choice to accept salvation, if it meant giving away all of his wealth to the poor. That shows he loved his riches more than his wish to go to heaven.
Matt 19:21-24
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
KJV
Your continual twisting of what others said is really getting tiresome, Jackson. Do you even care to have a genuine conversation, or you just want to find someone to preach at and blame them for something they didn't say? I've seen you say this same thing to many members, who don't believe or claim - at all! - what you're saying here. Why do you do this?
Faith (in Messiah) without (good) works is dead, and if faith is dead that faith can't save him.
(Good) Works without faith (in Messiah) is meaningless because without faith it's impossible to please the Almighty.
Only with faith (in Messiah) and (good) works together will one inherit the kingdom.
Without both, straying to the right or to the left, one is missing the mark.
The Messiah works inside and in heaven...
The believer works outside for Yah and for the good of others...
Until glory.
(Good) Works without faith (in Messiah) is meaningless because without faith it's impossible to please the Almighty.
Only with faith (in Messiah) and (good) works together will one inherit the kingdom.
Without both, straying to the right or to the left, one is missing the mark.
The Messiah works inside and in heaven...
The believer works outside for Yah and for the good of others...
Until glory.
I put question mark. So it is my question to make sure is that what he try to say, if it is not what people try to say than just say no. Why I ask that question, because a lot of Christian believe as son as you say accepting pray, no matter what what you do you are save. Because salvation not by work.
I don't see that chapter in James as being only directed to stable Christians. To me, it was admonishing believers to remember the importance of sincerely obeying the gospel to the best of one's ability. And to not allow oneself to willingly give into sin, ever, as many professing Christians - unfortunately - do. It is a protective admonition, that helped to show it isn't safe to feel comfortable with sin.
And see this verse in the chapter, that specifically says that simple belief in the gospel - though essential - is not enough by itself - to save anyone. Failure to choose to live according to the knowledge of the gospel is hypocrisy, and isn't acceptable to God. Have you noticed the times Jesus showed His rejection of the Pharisees, because of their hypocrisy? I have. There are many professing Christians who really aren't true Christians. They need to be warned so that they're more likely to come to repentance than if Christians just regard them as "okay."
Here's this verse I was going to show you:
James 2:14
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
KJV
And see this verse in the chapter, that specifically says that simple belief in the gospel - though essential - is not enough by itself - to save anyone. Failure to choose to live according to the knowledge of the gospel is hypocrisy, and isn't acceptable to God. Have you noticed the times Jesus showed His rejection of the Pharisees, because of their hypocrisy? I have. There are many professing Christians who really aren't true Christians. They need to be warned so that they're more likely to come to repentance than if Christians just regard them as "okay."
Here's this verse I was going to show you:
James 2:14
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
KJV
-
1
- Show all
It is also important to rightly divide and understand the word, there are two covanents and in both mathew and John who were the people he was talking to and which covanent were they in? The new covanent didn't happen until the death of Jesus he was still alive and had not yet been on the cross when this was spoken and he spoke it to the Jews as they were at that time still under the old covenant
The thing with faith without works is that this was said by james but again who was he speaking to? James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, he was speaking to the jews and this was also before Jesus gave Paul the revelation of himself and how the church was to be Paul openly spoke against relying on works he always pointed to faith and the blood and testimony of Jesus Christ
We do works but not for salvation not because we have to not because that is what we are commanded to do but because it is he that lives in us our hearts just naturally do it, but the church is not the same as the jews they work for their salvation and know nothing about God the child like faith we have in him is all we need works has nothing to do with the equation
The thing with faith without works is that this was said by james but again who was he speaking to? James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, he was speaking to the jews and this was also before Jesus gave Paul the revelation of himself and how the church was to be Paul openly spoke against relying on works he always pointed to faith and the blood and testimony of Jesus Christ
We do works but not for salvation not because we have to not because that is what we are commanded to do but because it is he that lives in us our hearts just naturally do it, but the church is not the same as the jews they work for their salvation and know nothing about God the child like faith we have in him is all we need works has nothing to do with the equation