Lordship salvation vs. "easy believism"

[eternally-gratefull]

My dear Budman, following Jesus is a heart thing, not a hand thing. He produces the fruits and works in us. It is not of us. It is from Him that all good proceeds. It is definitely not "hard believism or "Lordship Salvation".

Lordship, .

Trying to add to the Atonement, .

It is a shame that a nice word like 'lordship' has been hijacked.

It’s not so much The word, it is the group that hold to it, And preach a specific set of doctrines known as lordship salvation.

to me it’s legalism with a twist,

 

[soggykitten]

I prefer Scriptural Salvation.
From Got Questions folks. Also addresses easy believerism. Less than 8 minutes.

 

[Blik]

I prefer Scriptural Salvation. ]

Me too.

 

[Budman]

Welcome back brother long time no see

Thank-you! Good to see you're still here. So many are gone, it seems.

 

[Budman]

My dear Budman, following Jesus is a heart thing, not a hand thing. He produces the fruits and works in us. It is not of us. It is from Him that all good proceeds. It is definitely not "hard believism or "Lordship Salvation".

Lordship, .

Trying to add to the Atonement, .

It is a shame that a nice word like 'lordship' has been hijacked.

One of my points has always been; one does not make Jesus their Lord, Jesus is Lord.

Those who add any requirement other than "believe" to the gospel, preach a works salvation. No matter how they try to pretty it up.

 

[oyster67]

I would feel more comfortable with this LS thingy if they would set 'lordship' in it's proper place. It belongs after salvation. It should be presented as 'loving God' rather than 'do this, that, and the other thing.' Works and fruits are produced through us and in us, but not by us.

Our part is to love God and He will take it from there. He even helps us love our enemies. I sometimes wonder if the LR guys are letting the Lord lead, or if they are trying to do things on their own(?)

 

[Budman]

I prefer Scriptural Salvation.
From Got Questions folks. Also addresses easy believerism. Less than 8 minutes.

This is ridiculous. He purposely blurs the line between salvation and service.

Once saved, should we serve the Lord?

Of course.

The Bible calls that our "reasonable service" (Romans 12:1). But it is not required to remain saved or prove we are saved.

In Acts 16:30-31 the Philippian jailer asks Paul and Silas a direct question: "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

Here was a golden opportunity for Paul to tell the jailer "you must repent, be baptized, put your hand to the plow, surrender all, never look back, be zealous for good works", etc., etc.

But no. Paul said to simply "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

Now, did Paul tell the truth? If so, then that's all that must be done. If it's not true, Paul purposely deceived the jailer, and he was not saved.

So, if believing is all that is required to be saved, why in the world do people then say, "now you have to do works to stay/prove you're saved"? How many good works are required? Does God grade on a curve. When does one know they've done enough?

You can't know. Which is why so many Christians live in fear and uncertainty. Wondering if they are truly saved.

Why can't people accept that salvation is a gift from beginning to end? Why do they insist works must be involved? If good works prove one is saved, then Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, even many atheists are saved because they leave most born again Christians in the dust when it comes to good works and charity.

Jesus answered the question of works quite clearly:

"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28-29)

That's it, and that's all.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thank-you! Good to see you're still here. So many are gone, it seems.

It got bad in here bro sadly many either left or were forced to leave.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One of my points has always been; one does not make Jesus their Lord, Jesus is Lord.

Those who add any requirement other than "believe" to the gospel, preach a works salvation. No matter how they try to pretty it up.

Amen. The part that gets me is we come to Christ When we are bankrupt. Unable to really know him. How can we possibly make him Lord until he teaches us who he is?

 

[EleventhHour]

But it is not required to remain saved or prove we are saved.

Amen and Amen

And neither is there such a thing as spurious faith.

Someone here who gets it!!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is ridiculous. He purposely blurs the line between salvation and service.

Once saved, should we serve the Lord?

Of course.

The Bible calls that our "reasonable service" (Romans 12:1). But it is not required to remain saved or prove we are saved.

In Acts 16:30-31 the Philippian jailer asks Paul and Silas a direct question: "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

Here was a golden opportunity for Paul to tell the jailer "you must repent, be baptized, put your hand to the plow, surrender all, never look back, be zealous for good works", etc., etc.

But no. Paul said to simply "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

Now, did Paul tell the truth? If so, then that's all that must be done. If it's not true, Paul purposely deceived the jailer, and he was not saved.

So, if believing is all that is required to be saved, why in the world do people then say, "now you have to do works to stay/prove you're saved"? How many good works are required? Does God grade on a curve. When does one know they've done enough?

You can't know. Which is why so many Christians live in fear and uncertainty. Wondering if they are truly saved.

Why can't people accept that salvation is a gift from beginning to end? Why do they insist works must be involved? If good works prove one is saved, then Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, even many atheists are saved because they leave most born again Christians in the dust when it comes to good works and charity.

Jesus answered the question of works quite clearly:

"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28-29)

That's it, and that's all.

Amen good to have you back

 

[oyster67]

I will confess that I do confess and repent, and I shall not repent for confessing this, but I do this out of a sense of want-to, not have-to. I think it is a good thing to want to grow. Is this not what sanctification is about?

1 Peter
1:15 But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

I want to be more like Jesus, and I realize that it is only through Grace that this is possible.

 

[Chester]

Take note, you see the Bible says that. It does not mean it does

I can not make Jesus my lord until he first becomes my savior. Lordship salvation wants to put the cart before the horse. I can not see it

LOL! Good point and analogy. We just need to be sure to keep the horse first, but also keep the cart attached, and not throw it into the ditch and run off and steal just the horse.

 

[soggykitten]

This is ridiculous. He purposely blurs the line between salvation and service.

Once saved, should we serve the Lord?

Of course.

The Bible calls that our "reasonable service" (Romans 12:1). But it is not required to remain saved or prove we are saved.

In Acts 16:30-31 the Philippian jailer asks Paul and Silas a direct question: "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"

Here was a golden opportunity for Paul to tell the jailer "you must repent, be baptized, put your hand to the plow, surrender all, never look back, be zealous for good works", etc., etc.

But no. Paul said to simply "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved."

Now, did Paul tell the truth? If so, then that's all that must be done. If it's not true, Paul purposely deceived the jailer, and he was not saved.

So, if believing is all that is required to be saved, why in the world do people then say, "now you have to do works to stay/prove you're saved"? How many good works are required? Does God grade on a curve. When does one know they've done enough?

You can't know. Which is why so many Christians live in fear and uncertainty. Wondering if they are truly saved.

Why can't people accept that salvation is a gift from beginning to end? Why do they insist works must be involved? If good works prove one is saved, then Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholics, even many atheists are saved because they leave most born again Christians in the dust when it comes to good works and charity.

Jesus answered the question of works quite clearly:

"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28-29)

That's it, and that's all.

I think the reason anyone may live in fear is because of the fear easy believerism proponents instill in discussions like this.

Believe and that's it. That's all. End of story.
But that's not true. And we know it isn't true because of all those scriptures that pertain to other matters with regard to our salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God through his grace. An irrevocable gift. Yet, those same people will argue that isn't even true. That it is revocable.

Salvation is just the beginning. It isn't the end. If it were there would be no scripture whatever that speaks of our deeds as the saved. And there sure wouldn't be scripture in Revelation concerning our judgment before the Bema seat where we are judged. And part of that which is in review by God is our deeds in his service. 2nd Corinthians 5:10 “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

Maybe rather than easy believerism it should be labeled, lazy faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I think the reason anyone may live in fear is because of the fear easy believerism proponents instill in discussions like this.

Believe and that's it. That's all. End of story.
But that's not true. And we know it isn't true because of all those scriptures that pertain to other matters with regard to our salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God through his grace. An irrevocable gift. Yet, those same people will argue that isn't even true. That it is revocable.

Salvation is just the beginning. It isn't the end. If it were there would be no scripture whatever that speaks of our deeds as the saved. And there sure wouldn't be scripture in Revelation concerning our judgment before the Bema seat where we are judged. And part of that which is in review by God is our deeds in his service. 2nd Corinthians 5:10 “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

Maybe rather than easy believerism it should be labeled, lazy faith.

The only reason to fear is when your under law and required to live a certain standard and failing to do so will cause loss of salvation

No one fears easy believism those people as Jude said were long ago condemned.

True faith works My friend Dead faith does not. Works have no part of salvation period.

 

[throughfaith]

I have been accused of thinking "lordship salvation" What does it mean?

Its a legalistic ,works focused deception to be avoided . In Calvinsm its presented as " Saved by Faith alone , but !!! that faith is never alone " .

 

[throughfaith]

I think the reason anyone may live in fear is because of the fear easy believerism proponents instill in discussions like this.

Believe and that's it. That's all. End of story.
But that's not true. And we know it isn't true because of all those scriptures that pertain to other matters with regard to our salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God through his grace. An irrevocable gift. Yet, those same people will argue that isn't even true. That it is revocable.

Salvation is just the beginning. It isn't the end. If it were there would be no scripture whatever that speaks of our deeds as the saved. And there sure wouldn't be scripture in Revelation concerning our judgment before the Bema seat where we are judged. And part of that which is in review by God is our deeds in his service. 2nd Corinthians 5:10 “We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.”

Maybe rather than easy believerism it should be labeled, lazy faith.

Hard to believism? Virtue signalism?

 

[throughfaith]

I don't think God has made the Gospel difficult to believe .

 

[soggykitten]

Hard to believism? Virtue signalism?

Pejorative neologisms? Really?

 

[throughfaith]

Pejorative neologisms? Really?

And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, “Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened.”