Today’s church’s misunderstandings
- Thread starter Blik
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Well said.
There's a movement about as I see it that intends to contradict what Christ made of importance. I find that suspect.
Especially when the effort undertaken intends to revoke the Hebrew calendar of days, and holy days.
It's really odd if not pathetic. First when the laws of God are a topic of discussion we encounter those who say, those no longer apply, they're of the Jews! Ignoring the fact Jesus was a Jew who followed the laws of God and who put right the meaning of Sabbath. And of course ignoring that Jesus said to his disciples, and of course us, but that's going to be contended against as well, if you love me you'll keep my commands. Jesus reiterated the ten commandments and it was to those in part to which he referred.
Also that he said, until all is accomplished not one jot nor tittle would be removed from the law of God. But we're told we can ignore all that because that's for the Jews.
Then we're told the crucifixion and resurrection are not in accordance with the Jewish calendar that is described in the scriptures themselves.
Again, because those are of the Jews? And in order to insist the Sabbath God made for man no longer applies, though it is never put assunder by Christ in his ministry. And instead Christians are to worship on a Sunday.
Why? It appears there are two reasons. It's not the Jewish Sabbath day that God appointed for man, not man for the Sabbath.
And in a convoluted twisted contradiction to Jewish ritual calendar and actual scripture,Sunday is esteemed by some as the day Jesus resurrected. Because it is not the day that would apply to the Jewish ritual calendar that is detailed in scripture about the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus.
Do you see where I'm going there?
I think what we're encountering is a handful of doctrinaires defending and representative of the replacement theology movement.
You seem to be totally confused. The Old Covenant (and everything therein) has been REPLACED by the New Covenant. Do you really know what that means? It seems like you need to spend some time in seeing the significance of the New Covenant.
"Replacement Theology" is a totally different subject.
Not confused in the least. Thank you for your evidence supporting my aforementioned observation of replacement theology doctrinaires.
The Old Testament is the foundation of the new. I'm not confused about that in the least.
You say you are not confused but you don't even know what Replacement Theology is. It is the belief of some that the Church has replaced Israel in God's eternal plans and purposes. Which is totally false.
However, when we say that the New Covenant has replaced the Old Covenant, it means that the Law of Moses (and all feasts, festivals, and holy days therein) are now null and void. Which also means that the Christian Sabbath is the first day of the week, not the seventh day. Unbelieving Jews still maintain the 7th day Sabbath.
I hope so much to wipe out the idea of God being entangled with the Jew/gentile questions. God is simply our creator, God loves His creation and wants us to all live with Him forever. He created the Hebrew race to help us do that, not to have a favorite race God pampers more than us.
On what authority are you stating that all holy days are null and void? All of God's laws have a base of love, and that law is not null and void. The feasts are an expression of love and celebration of the Lord, and you say it is null and void on YOUR authority?
We are told that we are not obligated to honor the customs of the Jews, and that fleshly circumcision is one of those customs. Do you really believe, if you are honest with yourself, that God gave the holy days only as a custom of the Jews?
The Lord tells us these things are unimportant compared the His message of salvation. So let you believe the holy days are cancelled and let me believe that God didn't cancel them, they are a way for us to show love.
Excuse me IF I said " Time" you are correct, if you can show where I said time? The Bible doesn't give the specific Times but we do know it was early in the morning as the scriptures tell us. Secondly some here have said the day as being Saturday which the Bible doesn't say that either but it does say the Sabbath had past. Which I did provide scripture to support that.
John19:31-42
Matthew 27:57-62
Mark 15:42-47
Luke 23:50-56
These verses show Clearly Jesus body was asked for prior to the Sabbath each used the " Preparation day" = getting ready for the Sabbath. Each Gospel account shows this.
Mark 16:1-2 say that The Sabbath had past and it was the first day of the week.
sabbaton can mean the sabbath day in the Greek however, it also means a day of the week or one of the seventh days of the week.
Because Mark 16:1 states "The Sabbath has past" we cannot place in the context the assumption Jesus rose on a Saturday
Unless you remove the witnesses account.
Matthews 28:1 says the same thing but even stronger. " in the end " in context to the Sabbath being over: = the sabbath having just passed, after the sabbath
Both Luke and John say " First day of the week" which is not the sabbath day but the one following it.
Actually you are wrong.
A people cannot be hated or have aspersions cast upon them by those who claim to love Christ and that love be genuine and known by Christ.
Jesus was born into a Jewish family and followed Jewish practices and God's law. Imagine what it means for those who claim the name of Christ to cast stones upon the Jews/Hebrews.
When we are all one in Christ Jesus.
"I never knew you", comes to mind. Words that may come to their attention at their judgment.
Very sad.
the fact that it's a Theology means it may or may not be from God. we should follow what the Spirit reveals to us individually not theologies of Man.
It is certainly not worth arguing about, if you want to believe scripture tells you Christ rose early in Sunday morning, and not that it was discovered that he had risen, be my guest.
If your reasoning is correct, then archeology would be no more, for everything would be dated by the day it was discovered.
It is amazing that the world operates in a different way because of the way you decide scripture is telling it. If we all turned to Genesis as scripture telling of the Sabbath, all the world would change the day designated as a rest day.
Well said.
There's a pattern with regard to Jesus teachings in parts of the world where Satan roams as a hungry lion seeking souls to devour. And minds to influence of course.
A patter that appears dedicated to impart Jesus teachings aren't meant to be understood a certain way, as regards Baptism as one example, or the argument, in this case as pertains to his laws, that doesn't apply today.
And it appears to be a pattern that skews all of Jesus teaching of the Gospel. Even belief in Jesus and Salvation. As if what is being pushed is the anti-gospel. Maybe that is why some proponents of what appears to be that use the lower case g to denote God. Making his status unimportant or less than sovereign.
I would be wary of the human ego that presumes to overrule Jesus and his own words with regard to his laws. Jesus was God therefore God's laws are his own as he spoke of them during his earthly ministry.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them” Matthew 5:17
Jesus was the prophesied Messiah.
The Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus didn't say, my laws are abolished with my coming. He reiterated them by expounding on their meaning and showing the reason for God's law. (linked for those who oppose the individual Christian understanding of scripture)
You have heard that it was said to an older generation,[x] ‘Do not murder,’[y] and ‘whoever murders will be subjected to judgment.’[z] 22 But I say to you that anyone who is angry with a brother[aa] will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults[ab] a brother will be brought before[ac] the council,[ad] and whoever says ‘Fool’[ae] will be sent[af] to fiery hell.[ag]
Footnote
[x] Grk “to the ancient ones.” sn The expression an older generation can be understood to refer to the Israelites at the time of the Exodus, the original audience for the ten commandments.
[y]sn A quotation from Exod 20:13; Deut 5:17.
And we know in John 14 Jesus was speaking to his Disciples as to what was to occur after he left them. He didn't say, after I return to the father my commandments cease to apply.
John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey[ah] my commandments.[ai]
FOOTNOTE
[ah] Or “will keep.”
[ai]Jesus’ statement If you love me, you will obey my commandments provides the transition between the promises of answered prayer which Jesus makes to his disciples in vv. 13-14 and the promise of the Holy Spirit which is introduced in v. 16. Obedience is the proof of genuine love.
And very importantly I think is that which is in Luke 24:27 Then[bs] beginning with Moses and all the prophets,[bt] he interpreted to them the things written about[bu] himself in all the scriptures.
FOOTNOTE
[bs] Here καί (kai) has been translated as “then” to indicate the implied sequence of events within the narrative.
[bt]The reference to Moses and all the prophets is a way to say the promise of Messiah runs throughout OT scripture from first to last.
[bu]Or “regarding,” “concerning.” “Written” is implied by the mention of the scriptures in context; “said” could also be used here, referring to the original utterances, but by now these things had been committed to writing.
And we know too that there are Denominations within the church that ascribe importance to the laws of God today.The Lutheran tradition is but one example that comes to mind. The Lutheran tradition teaches God's laws contemporary purpose is to Curb, Mirror, and Guide.
A search engine would assist in understanding the meaning of Theology, Apologetics, Eschatology, Soteriology, Bibliology,which itself is represented in these forums as are the other studies named, as examples.
I don't know that you used the wrong word. I can't speak for your thoughts. I merely responded to what you shared regarding them as that which pertains to your understanding of Theology.
You claim that "all of God's laws have a base of love". Tell me: how is the LAW requiring a woman suspected of infidelity to drink poison based on love? How is the LAW requiring the slaughter of animals based on love? How is the LAW requiring physical mutilation of males based on love?
Blik, your understanding of the whole of Scripture is flawed because you don't understand the nature of the old and new covenants. They are DISTINCT. You cannot be under both. God's law as given through Moses is a time-limited component of His plan to bring forth the Messiah. Only by treating the old covenant law as a smorgasbord can you maintain your position. In truth, you are either under the whole thing, as both Paul and James state, or you are under none of it.
Jesus was mistaken then when he said, love is the fulfillment of the law?
Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and
teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17–19)
were you in the TOMB? I see you say you have an opinion but no scripture to support your presupposition. Yet you stated I did not have Biblical Proof, and now what to assert "If I believe scripture tell you Christ rose early in Sunday morning and not that it was discovered that he had risen", Please provide the Scripture to support your claim. The part of archeology I am concerned with today is the tomb is empty. The complete abandonment of reality that is some way that archeology would be no more is very laughable.
For your position to be correct I would have to rip out the Bible that states:
- the Stone was rolled away
- the two angels
- The "preparation day" which is the day before the Sabbath which is Friday
- risen on the Third Day
Please don't blame me, for not accepting your Hypothesis, The Word of God doesn't support it.
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IF we believe in God/Yeshua, 'and AGREE with HIS WILL and HIS WORD, then we are in UNITY with HIM:
as it is written:
ROMANS 8:31.
What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?