When are we saved ?

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throughfaith

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What prevented the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus in the passage above? His love of money.

Are unsaved people any different today that they were before the cross?

If a person's sin and unbelief is the ONLY reason they will not come to Christ, what changed after the cross as far as man's willingness to come to Jesus?[/QUOTE]
Were people coming to christ before He even came ?[/QUOTE]

they were coming to God, and Jesus in His preexistent state was God.

Plus, They believed the Promise of God, and the Promise was Christ, though they did not know it.[/QUOTE]
No one was sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption, before the cross .

How to appropriate salvation before and after the cross was not the same. Salvation has always been through faith though .
 
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throughfaith

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#1,742
What prevented the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus in the passage above? His love of money.

Are unsaved people any different today that they were before the cross?

If a person's sin and unbelief is the ONLY reason they will not come to Christ, what changed after the cross as far as man's willingness to come to Jesus?[/QUOTE]
Were people coming to christ before He even came ?[/QUOTE]

they were coming to God, and Jesus in His preexistent state was God.

Plus, They believed the Promise of God, and the Promise was Christ, though they did not know it.[/QUOTE]
In the OT they did not have redemption. Just remission. After the resurrection believers recieve remission and redemption.
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
Was it God that was preventing the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus? No. It was HIS LOVE OF MONEY that was preventing him from coming to Jesus, right? SO are you saying that unsaved people by nature now are LESS SINFUL and LOVE THEIR SIN LESS after the cross then they were before the cross? Because the only thing that was preventing the man from coming to Jesus was his love of money? RIGHT?
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I don't argue that . Noah would have asked folks to get on the Ark ,whilst they had time . But look how that turned out . Yes people refuse to believe the truth so as to be saved . The point is that they are refusing to believe the truth. Its the same today . People refusing to believe the truth so as to be saved . Romans 1 says they suppress the truth. This means its self evident that they have to ' suppress ' it . They are without excuse as Rom 1 says . But then Calvinism comes along and gives them an excuse by teaching Total INABILITY . Now they have a reason and an excuse for not Believing.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
I don't argue that . Noah would have asked folks to get on the Ark ,whilst they had time . But look how that turned out . Yes people refuse to believe the truth so as to be saved . The point is that they are refusing to believe the truth. Its the same today . People refusing to believe the truth so as to be saved . Romans 1 says they suppress the truth. This means its self evident that they have to ' suppress ' it . They are without excuse as Rom 1 says . But then Calvinism comes along and gives them an excuse by teaching Total INABILITY . Now they have a reason and an excuse for not Believing.
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Were those not drawn by the Father in John 6 able to come to Jesus? ( John 6:44). Why or why not?
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
In the OT they did not have redemption. Just remission. After the resurrection believers recieve remission and redemption.
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But they were saved by the hope of redemption promised before by the prophets in the Holy Scriptures. Romans 1:1-2. Luke 2:38
 
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throughfaith

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OIC1965 said:
Were those not drawn by the Father in John 6 able to come to Jesus? ( John 6:44). Why or why not?
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I don't think it is that crucial to us today to have an exact science on how the Father was drawing . I see those that did follow Jesus that came , most left him and did not believe. If The fathers drawing was a prerequisite did he actually draw them . As most left Jesus and did not believe. I don't think its critical because when we read John 12
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
From the inductive method..We can say that the Father was drawing before the cross . The son after . The Holy Spirit? wheres the verse ?
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
I don't think it is that crucial to us today to have an exact science on how the Father was drawing . I see those that did follow Jesus that came , most left him and did not believe. If The fathers drawing was a prerequisite did he actually draw them . As most left Jesus and did not believe. I don't think its critical because when we read John 12
32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.
From the inductive method..We can say that the Father was drawing before the cross . The son after . The Holy Spirit? wheres the verse ?
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You have a bad habit of dancing around questions. It’s a simple question. Were those who were not drawn by the Father able to come to Jesus? Yes or no

John 6:44 clearly answers this.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
Do you think the disciples believed the Gospel as we know it ? Before the cross?
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No. They didn’t need to. They were saved by their trust in Christ. And they trusted Him because He called them and the Father drew them.
 
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throughfaith

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And 45 ? It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
 
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OIC1965

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throughfaith said:
They were all Jews. And if they following all the requirements as a jew they sins were forgiven. Yearly , repeatedly .
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Would they have been able to come to Jesus had the Father not drawn them? John 6:44

And did they figure out that Jesus was the Messiah all by their lonesome? Did flesh and blood reveal it? Or did the Father reveal it?

The Father revealed it. So was the Father revealing to them the true identity of the Son before they believed an act of prevenient grace?
 
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