Was it God that was preventing the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus? No. It was HIS LOVE OF MONEY that was preventing him from coming to Jesus, right? SO are you saying that unsaved people by nature now are LESS SINFUL and LOVE THEIR SIN LESS after the cross then they were before the cross? Because the only thing that was preventing the man from coming to Jesus was his love of money? RIGHT?
When are we saved ?
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Was it God that was preventing the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus? No. It was HIS LOVE OF MONEY that was preventing him from coming to Jesus, right? SO are you saying that unsaved people by nature now are LESS SINFUL and LOVE THEIR SIN LESS after the cross then they were before the cross? Because the only thing that was preventing the man from coming to Jesus was his love of money? RIGHT?
[QUOTE="throughfaith, post: 4397360, member: 300037"
[/QUOTE]If that was all what certain traditions and denominations meant by previenient grace ,but they don't. They teach that a ' partial regeneration ' or a to be made free in some sense to be able to believe with the choice also to resist. Some couch this in different terms but essentially the same idea . Because they hold to the T. Like i said before when I posted the flowers clip . Also the other guy does one on ' Jacob Arminius ' .[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
What prevented the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus in the passage above? His love of money.
Are unsaved people any different today that they were before the cross?
If a person's sin and unbelief is the ONLY reason they will not come to Christ, what changed after the cross as far as man's willingness to come to Jesus?
[/QUOTE]If that was all what certain traditions and denominations meant by previenient grace ,but they don't. They teach that a ' partial regeneration ' or a to be made free in some sense to be able to believe with the choice also to resist. Some couch this in different terms but essentially the same idea . Because they hold to the T. Like i said before when I posted the flowers clip . Also the other guy does one on ' Jacob Arminius ' .[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
What prevented the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus in the passage above? His love of money.
Are unsaved people any different today that they were before the cross?
If a person's sin and unbelief is the ONLY reason they will not come to Christ, what changed after the cross as far as man's willingness to come to Jesus?
He CAME to Jesus . Why didn't Jesus say " believe on my death , burial and resurrection, for eternal life " .?Was it God that was preventing the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus? No. It was HIS LOVE OF MONEY that was preventing him from coming to Jesus, right? SO are you saying that unsaved people by nature now are LESS SINFUL and LOVE THEIR SIN LESS after the cross then they were before the cross? Because the only thing that was preventing the man from coming to Jesus was his love of money? RIGHT?
Is this before Jesus did what he did so that all can be saved or after?
So you're saying that what Jesus said in Mark 10:23-27 was true before the cross, but no longer true after the cross? Considering the fact that the ONLY THING that was keeping the man from following Jesus was His love of money, what changed at the cross to mitigate this type of thing in unsaved people?
He CAME to Jesus . Why didn't Jesus say " believe on my death , burial and resurrection, for eternal life " .?
Are you saying that the man was saved?
He CAME to Jesus . Why didn't Jesus say " believe on my death , burial and resurrection, for eternal life " .?
The passage demonstrates human inability. (with men this is IMPOSSIBLE) What changed after the cross to mitigate this human inability?
17¶And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?Was it God that was preventing the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus? No. It was HIS LOVE OF MONEY that was preventing him from coming to Jesus, right? SO are you saying that unsaved people by nature now are LESS SINFUL and LOVE THEIR SIN LESS after the cross then they were before the cross? Because the only thing that was preventing the man from coming to Jesus was his love of money? RIGHT?
18¶And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Notice he CAME to Jesus RUNNING and KNEELING . And if we answer people today as he answered this man are we doing the right thing ? If someone asks us how to inherit eternal life ,do we just quote the commandments of moses ?
[QUOTE="throughfaith, post: 4397360, member: 300037"
If that was all what certain traditions and denominations meant by previenient grace ,but they don't. They teach that a ' partial regeneration ' or a to be made free in some sense to be able to believe with the choice also to resist. Some couch this in different terms but essentially the same idea . Because they hold to the T. Like i said before when I posted the flowers clip . Also the other guy does one on ' Jacob Arminius ' .[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
What prevented the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus in the passage above? His love of money.
Are unsaved people any different today that they were before the cross?
If a person's sin and unbelief is the ONLY reason they will not come to Christ, what changed after the cross as far as man's willingness to come to Jesus?[/QUOTE]
Were people coming to christ before He even came ?
people came to Jesus before the cross . It wasn't impossible for people to come to Jesus. He even said " come unto me all you who are heavy laden....The passage demonstrates human inability. (with men this is IMPOSSIBLE) What changed after the cross to mitigate this human inability?
Jesus asked him to FOLLOW him physically . He departed.So you're saying that what Jesus said in Mark 10:23-27 was true before the cross, but no longer true after the cross? Considering the fact that the ONLY THING that was keeping the man from following Jesus was His love of money, what changed at the cross to mitigate this type of thing in unsaved people?
He left Jesus. Did he later believe on the death , burial and resurrection ? it doesn't say ?Are you saying that the man was saved?
17¶And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18¶And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
19Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.
Notice he CAME to Jesus RUNNING and KNEELING . And if we answer people today as he answered this man are we doing the right thing ? If someone asks us how to inherit eternal life ,do we just quote the commandments of moses ?
Jesus was showing him what was preventing him from receiving eternal life. Love of money
people came to Jesus before the cross . It wasn't impossible for people to come to Jesus. He even said " come unto me all you who are heavy laden....
No one can ( is able to)come to me unless the Father draws them.
Remember? There’s that pesky inability again.
The people who came to Jesus during His earthly ministry were drawn.
Jesus asked him to FOLLOW him physically . He departed.
Did the man get saved? Could he have?
He left Jesus. Did he later believe on the death , burial and resurrection ? it doesn't say ?
Did Jesus disciples believe on the death, burial and resurrection at that time?
[/QUOTE]If that was all what certain traditions and denominations meant by previenient grace ,but they don't. They teach that a ' partial regeneration ' or a to be made free in some sense to be able to believe with the choice also to resist. Some couch this in different terms but essentially the same idea . Because they hold to the T. Like i said before when I posted the flowers clip . Also the other guy does one on ' Jacob Arminius ' .
What prevented the rich young ruler from coming to Jesus in the passage above? His love of money.
Are unsaved people any different today that they were before the cross?
If a person's sin and unbelief is the ONLY reason they will not come to Christ, what changed after the cross as far as man's willingness to come to Jesus?[/QUOTE]
Were people coming to christ before He even came ?[/QUOTE]
they were coming to God, and Jesus in His preexistent state was God.
Plus, They believed the Promise of God, and the Promise was Christ, though they did not know it.
How did they recieve eternal life in the OT ?Jesus was showing him what was preventing him from receiving eternal life. Love of money
Who was the Father drawing ?No one can ( is able to)come to me unless the Father draws them.
Remember? There’s that pesky inability again.
The people who came to Jesus during His earthly ministry were drawn.
If He had followed Jesus like the diciples then yes .Did the man get saved? Could he have?
No they didn't. The Gospel hadn't happened yet.Did Jesus disciples believe on the death, burial and resurrection at that time?