When are we saved ?
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Which verse s please ?We are known as unbelieving children, and believing sons.
I've said all a long JESUS is the only preexisting Elect before the foundation of the world. When we get IN an eternal being we ARE blessed with all SPIRITUAL blessings IN CHRIST JESUS . No ' in the mind of God ' Jehovah witness theology needed .
Why do you keep talking about things that no one said? Nobody said we pre existed. You cannot refute me, so you make things up to refute.
“Before the foundation of the world,” God decreed that He would choose no one in this age to become “holy and without blame” “in Christ.” ”
You just said the opposite of what Ephesians 1:4 says. Good job
I doubt you can say...fact.
I see nothing that says God chose us before the foundations of the earth.
Concluding for a moment ...so...
...what point does it make?
You don’t see the words “ God chose us before the foundation of the earth” in Ephesians 1:4?
Salvation , you would agree is AFTER we believe ? Eph 1.13-14 . So Paul speaking to already saved saints in Christ Jesus . The whole Point Paul is making is the blessing we now have after . In him , is the point thats ' according ' . The access to the blessings is ONLY found in him .
What is the “before the foundation of the world about?
Thank you, and this is the correct understanding.
It does not say God chose a plan or a basis. It says God chose us.
So you want to change the pronoun to something else? Do so at your own risk.
I've never said anyone believe s that they were preexisting. I've said your view needs clarification.Why do you keep talking about things that no one said? Nobody said we pre existed. You cannot refute me, so you make things up to refute.
Thank you, and this is the correct understanding.
What is the direct object of the verb “chose”in Ephesians 1:4?
Who's the ' us ' and how ? please clarify. Is it just ' in God's mind ' ?It does not say God chose a plan or a basis. It says God chose us.
So you want to change the pronoun to something else? Do so at your own risk.
I've never said anyone believe s that they were preexisting. I've said your view needs clarification.
You keep arguing that “we didn’t exist”. That’s not even relevant.
How is it not relevant ?,You keep arguing that “we didn’t exist”. That’s not even relevant.
Who's the ' us ' and how ? please clarify. Is it just ' in God's mind ' ?
Us is everyone Ephesians the text is about. Believers.
Where are choices made?in the mind, right?
How is it not relevant ?,
already been explained several times. “In Christ” is modifying the verb. Not the direct object. In other words,no one is saying we were in Christ before we were saved.
Just the Ephesians? Who else?Us is everyone Ephesians the text is about. Believers.
Where are choices made?in the mind, right?
Just the Ephesians? Who else?
What did I type? Did I type “ just the Ephesians“? No.
All believers. Is Ephesians 1:1-14 only about the Ephesians? Of course not!!!
Thanks and wirh respect, but I see it differently in this way as said that the phrase "from the foundation of the world" may differs from "before the foundation of the world." So when it comes to salvation, we are saved "from the foundation of the world" as in time (not eternity"), similarly our name is written in the Lamb's book of life (Rev. 13:8; Rev. 17:8). Ephesians talks about spiritual blessings after we are already saved in time not in eternity. The fact that we are CHOSEN IN HIM before the foundation of the world does not mean that any sinner existed or was saved before the foundation of the world. It merely means that God laid down the basis for being chosen, i.e., IN HIM, IN CHRIST. and no one is IN CHRIST BEFORE they are saved.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain FROM the foundation of the world.
Rev 17:8 . . . they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life FROM the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Ephesians 1 says we were chosen before the foundation of the world. I know of no scripture that says we were saved before we were saved by faith though. I don’t know how you reach that conclusion.
Nope . Of Course ' before ' Jesus preexisting.
Jesus pre existed. We did not pre exist. There, that’s settled.
Thanks and wirh respect, but I see it differently in this way as said that the phrase "from the foundation of the world" may differs from "before the foundation of the world." So when it comes to salvation, we are saved "from the foundation of the world" as in time (not eternity"), similarly our name is written in the Lamb's book of life (Rev. 13:8; Rev. 17:8). Ephesians talks about spiritual blessings after we are already saved in time not in eternity. The fact that we are CHOSEN IN HIM before the foundation of the world does not mean that any sinner existed or was saved before the foundation of the world. It merely means that God laid down the basis for being chosen, i.e., IN HIM, IN CHRIST. and no one is IN CHRIST BEFORE they are saved.
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain FROM the foundation of the world.
Rev 17:8 . . . they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life FROM the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
No one says we existed or were saved before the foundation of the world Ephesians says according as He chose US in Christ before the foundation of the world.” Now if you and through and eleventh want to say Paul was wrong to say thatGod CHOSE US in Christ before the foundation of the world, that’s your thing, not mine.
So he chose all believers, before they believed?What did I type? Did I type “ just the Ephesians“? No.
All believers. Is Ephesians 1:1-14 only about the Ephesians? Of course not!!!