When are we saved ?

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OIC1965

Well-known member
#941
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
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#941
EleventhHour said:
I am done here too... but making saving faith a gift creates many problems.. “if God divinely imparts faith, then human responsibility is nullified”

It seems to me that in the Ordo Salutis ... saving faith is connected to the rest and does not fail and is not rejected.

Faith comes through hearing the Word of God, through the convicting and drawing work of the Holy Spirit, and through responding to the revelation that one has already received from God.
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Last paragraph has been my position which has been denied and opposed by throughfaith. Isn’t that right, throughfaith?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#942
#942
lenna said:
oh cheese whiz

that's like stating how did he come up with what he posted

do you really want to do this? o_O my mind has a mind all of its own :whistle:
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Yeah I do/

I want you to see what he is really saying and not just accuse him like the other two.

Again, On the outside, I could see it to..

All I am asking is do not assume because he uses a few key words. Ask hi what he means by those words..
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#944
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
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113
#944
eternally-gratefull said:
I have

And I hav not heard this person say one things in the weeks I have witnessed the discussion here that would make me honk he is calvinist

I do however see him continually falsly accused of such, Because they look fr key words (election, predestined, etc etc) and ASSUME thats what he believes

Which is WHY when I see him say something that appears to support calvinism, Instead of accusing him, I ask him a question.

Every time I have done this, His answer is notcalvinist. Nothing near it.
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They avoid uncomfortable Bible passages and words like the plague.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#945
#945
lenna said:
EG...once, actually more than once, under at least 2 different names, I had some impossible discussions with you

respectfully, I am going to disengage at this point

you see, I actually believe that you do not see what he is saying or what the rest of us are saying

no disrespect, but further discussion might/could, amp up the rhetoric and I have no more desire to do that than I have to pull all my teeth with wire cutters while dancing on live power lines
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You have every right

I will say this, Keep it up and I will start reporting you all

and I will do, I will have no respect for you either.

He is not saying what you all claim. It has been proven 100 times over.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#946
#946
OIC1965 said:
They avoid uncomfortable Bible passages and words like the plague.
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I am serious bro. I am about to start reporting this nonsense. You would think after what happened wiht the other threads and the response form the mods this nonsense would stop. But sadly it continues
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#947
#947
Last warning, If this crap continues. I will go directly to oncefallen. It is sad how we can falsely accuse a brotheR and think there will be no consequences
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#948
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
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#948
OIC1965 said:
They avoid uncomfortable Bible passages and words like the plague.
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How do we recieve him ? John 1.12 . If dont get this correct then we won't know how to share the good news .This is Christianity 101 .
 
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lenna

Guest
#949
#949
eternally-gratefull said:
hence he gave us the power to have faith.
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isn't that like saying but He did not give the power to have faith to some poor unfortunates and so they went to the hot place

this is the argument Calvinists present

I mean if He gave power to have faith then why account faith to Abraham as righteousness?

(in for it now I suppose)
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#950
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#950
throughfaith said:
12But as many as received him , to them... Then 1 cor 15 .1,-4
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So after we receive Him, He gives us power to become the sons of God? How do we use that power to become sons of God? Because it says He gives us authority to become sons of God

So we receive Him, and then He gives us authority to exercise to become sons of God? I don’t think so

The way we become sons of God is by receiving Him, ie faith, and IT IS HE THAT GAVE US the power to become the sons of God, even those who believe on His Name

The way we become sons of God is through faith, and it is HE that grants us that power. Poof!!!
 
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lenna

Guest
#951
#951
eternally-gratefull said:
You have every right

I will say this, Keep it up and I will start reporting you all

and I will do, I will have no respect for you either.

He is not saying what you all claim. It has been proven 100 times over.
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don't bother

I am reporting this myself

you have no business to threaten people.
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#952
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#952
eternally-gratefull said:
He gave them power to become, how do we become? By faith

hence he gave us the power to have faith.

It is the work of God we believe, those are jesus words. Its not calvinist view; It is Gos view. we just have to ntepret what that means and not same aeveryone who says it is calvinist. Like some are doing
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Yes.

We become sons of God through faith

he gave us the power to become sons of God

He gives us the power to become sons of God through faith
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#953
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#953
lenna said:
don't bother

I am reporting this myself

you have no business to threaten people.
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You have falsely accused me of being a Calvinist. John 1:12 clearly teaches that Jesus gave us the power or authority to become sons of God through faith. Eternally stated it perfectly.
 
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lenna

Guest
#954
#954
eternally-gratefull said:
Last warning, If this crap continues. I will go directly to oncefallen. It is sad how we can falsely accuse a brotheR and think there will be no consequences
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great and I will write the owner of the site and ask when you were made a moderator

no one is being falsely accused

you have done just what I thought you would do which is why I did not want to continue discussing with you
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#955
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#955
throughfaith said:
How do we recieve him ? John 1.12 . If dont get this correct then we won't know how to share the good news .This is Christianity 101 .
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We become sons of God by believing on His Name. And it is He who gave us this power. Not dunamis, ability. Exousia, power as in authority

We become sons of God through faith. Who gabe us exousia to become sons of God in John 1:12.

Jesus!!

Not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, WE WERE BORN!
 
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lenna

Guest
#956
#956
OIC1965 said:
You have falsely accused me of being a Calvinist. John 1:12 clearly teaches that Jesus gave us the power or authority to become sons of God through faith. Eternally stated it perfectly.
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yes? post please?

don't bother thinking eg has any sort of special weight here

I have reported his threats because he has 0 business making them
 
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OIC1965

Well-known member
#957
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
1,016
113
#957
lenna said:
great and I will write the owner of the site and ask when you were made a moderator

no one is being falsely accused

you have done just what I thought you would do which is why I did not want to continue discussing with you
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You have falsely accused me of being a Calvinist because I believe in election and predestination, which are in the Bible

I never said unconditional election

I never said irresistable grace

You have a false dichotomy where either we were chosen unconditionally or we were not chosen at all.

You are sorely confused.
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#958
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#958
OIC1965 said:
So after we receive Him, He gives us power to become the sons of God? How do we use that power to become sons of God? Because it says He gives us authority to become sons of God

So we receive Him, and then He gives us authority to exercise to become sons of God? I don’t think so

The way we become sons of God is by receiving Him, ie faith, and IT IS HE THAT GAVE US the power to become the sons of God, even those who believe on His Name

The way we become sons of God is through faith, and it is HE that grants us that power. Poof!!!
Click to expand...
12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
 
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throughfaith

Well-known member
#959
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#959
OIC1965 said:
You have falsely accused me of being a Calvinist because I believe in election and predestination, which are in the Bible

I never said unconditional election

I never said irresistable grace

You have a false dichotomy where either we were chosen unconditionally or we were not chosen at all.

You are sorely confused.
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Every Christian has to believe in the words election and Predestination.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#960
#960
lenna said:
isn't that like saying but He did not give the power to have faith to some poor unfortunates and so they went to the hot place

this is the argument Calvinists present

I mean if He gave power to have faith then why account faith to Abraham as righteousness?

(in for it now I suppose)
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Nope he gave them the power also. Like the person being accused of here and myself keep saying. They chose to reject it in unbelief
 
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