When are we saved ?

[eternally-gratefull]

John 1:13............

“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”

This is speaking to the nature of our new birth.. not the means.

Ephesians 1:13 makes is clear and the correct order.

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

He gave them power to become, how do we become? By faith

hence he gave us the power to have faith.

It is the work of God we believe, those are jesus words. Its not calvinist view; It is Gos view. we just have to ntepret what that means and not same aeveryone who says it is calvinist. Like some are doing

 

[lenna]

How do you get this from what He said?

oh cheese whiz

that's like stating how did he come up with what he posted

do you really want to do this? my mind has a mind all of its own

 

[throughfaith]

God commands many things that cannot be done in the strength of the fleshly will.

Try serving God in the flesh. Good luck.

Again your close to referring to Calvinsm ( compatablist) .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No. I’m saying faith is more than a mere exercise of the carnal will. Some completely deny the work of God’s Spirit in drawing us

This is his point.. He is not denying free will. He is denying we come to faith apart from any work of God!

 

[throughfaith]

They may believe IF THEY WILL.

The will can be a problem, as we discussed earlier.

Are you referring to the ' bondage of the will ' ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

can someone please explain why our will is constantly being called fleshly? because I do not find this in scripture

are we trying to address some sort of amalgam between flesh and spirit that cancels our own will?

should we leave out the word 'choice' from our vocabulary altogether?

Your not listening to him

He is saying you did not come to God merely by your power or will. With no help from God

Thats different things saying you do not have free will

 

[OIC1965]

see EG?

this is what I am referring to

confusing to say the least but with definite C leanings

what can I say

Accept what the Bible says about election and predestination. That’s a good start.

 

[lenna]

Thank you ... you would make a good moderator

I hereby hire you...LOL

you know, listening is an art but I only have 2 hears...er...ears

thanks LOL!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wrong we never stated such.

It sure appears that way based on how you accuse him.

But you cant see his.. because you are out to defeat what you accuse as a calvinist. so in your own words, You say things whuch even I know you do not mean..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ok

so do you pray over every decision you make during the day? if not, then you have your own will

Salvation is context here..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

no

you have a comprehension problem

you cannot take a statement and create a blanket doctrine out of it. this is where you have gone over the cliff

So your saying he shoudl not act like @EleventhHour and the other person here?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your view of predestination is exactly that God chose before time began... on the individual.

Yes, God chose us to be holy and without blame. Based on foreknowledge. Do you not agree?

 

[lenna]

Your not listening to him

He is saying you did not come to God merely by your power or will. With no help from God

Thats different things saying you do not have free will

EG...once, actually more than once, under at least 2 different names, I had some impossible discussions with you

respectfully, I am going to disengage at this point

you see, I actually believe that you do not see what he is saying or what the rest of us are saying

no disrespect, but further discussion might/could, amp up the rhetoric and I have no more desire to do that than I have to pull all my teeth with wire cutters while dancing on live power lines

 

[throughfaith]

Accept what the Bible says about election and predestination. That’s a good start.

I keep trying . When is the Adoption according to Rom 8.23 and what is it ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

seriously laughed out loud. even snorted a bit

I was speaking about your not wanting to falsely accuse and get al the fact first.. Which sadly, far to many people from both sides seem to be lacking this ability!

 

[EleventhHour]

see post above

no don't accuse me. I see what I see and that's about it. nothing here I am trying to make true to anyone

I think all of this comes down to whether we see saving faith as a gift in the Reformed view.

If Faith must be gifted then God again is picking and choosing, I cannot see anyway around that. .. unless we can say that faith is gifted to all... but how can such faith not lead to salvation if it is indeed faith.

Faith is IN Jesus for salvation ... it is connected to Him... not just a disconnected concept one adopts.

 

[throughfaith]

Exactly. The right to become children of God is given to us. If the right to become children of God was not given, the power to believe unto salvation would not be given either. See that?

That's not what the verse says ?

 

[throughfaith]

The natural man, according to 1 Cor 2:14 cannot believe in the things of the Spirit, until he has been regenerated. You do not have to believe anything to be saved (delivered) eternally, that is done by our sovereign God's grace, without man's help.

2 Tim 2:13, If we believe not, yet he (Jesus) abideth faithful, he (Jesus) cannot deny himself (because the elect are chosen in him before the foundation of the world).

Adding to the word of God there .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God chose the "plan of salvation" before the foundation of the world, and the result of that plan was for those who believe to be IN Him.

He did not pick out/predestine certain people for salvation.

Yes

But he did predestined certain people based on his will. That whoever sees and believes has eternal life.

To say God did not know who would chose freely to believe in him, is to take away Gods power.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

awww

that's ok. keep your chin up and use humor like I do

maybe I have a quirky sense of humor, but I find the renderings on Mary to be so out of place as to be funny

Oh I agree. The Virginia of mary, inspite o biblical truth, all I can do is laugh, And be sad that people can be duped so easily