There Will Be No Millennial Kingdom On This Earth, Jesus Dissolves It By Fire!

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B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#81
I don't understand the millennial reign, I know that it is referred to in The Revelation of John. I also don't understand the great tribulation.
Does judgement come directly after the great tribulation, or are we in it now?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#82
I don't understand the millennial reign, I know that it is referred to in The Revelation of John. I also don't understand the great tribulation.
Does judgement come directly after the great tribulation, or are we in it now?
Many take Revelation 20:1-6 and the words (Reign Thousand Years) and falsely try to turn the verses into a physical kingdom on this earth, where mortal humans will be present, as Jesus Christ sits on a Literal Throne

The teaching is false, no physical kingdom on earth or Mortal Humans are seen in the verses, it's 100% spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ, 100% Spiritual, No Kingdom Or Humans Seen.

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#83
I don't understand the millennial reign, I know that it is referred to in The Revelation of John. I also don't understand the great tribulation.
Does judgement come directly after the great tribulation, or are we in it now?
The Great Tribulation Is Identified in Matthew 24:21, its a future event, that will take place when the Future antichrist is revealed in Jerusalem, and causes the Abomination Of Desolation seen in Matthew 24:15

Preterist falsely claim these events were fulfilled in the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem, Titus/Caesar was the Antichrist, the great tribulation was the death and destruction in Jerusalem.

Preterist aren't looking for a future Antichrist or great tribulation, the teaching is deception.

Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
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#84
We Agree, There Will Be No Future 1,000 Year Kingdom On This Existing Earth.

Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, The Existing Heavens And Earth Are Dissolved By The Lord's Fire, Judgement Complete, Eternity Begins In The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem.
And that is where all this started out......with agreement on those statements. No others.
I would say Christ returns to catch up His beloved at the last trump... and THEN the earth is destroyed with intense heat
..... but that may just be semantics unless it is further explored.
I guess we parted ways on the millennium issue, I say we are IN the Millinneum(s) now (Amillennist view), the age of when Revelation was written, and bible symbolism. That did not leave much to agree on after that.

Just to be clear: Premillenists advocate for a totally completely fulfilled prophecy including that Christ had already returned.
My eschatology is Amillenist, the prophesies are all fulfilled EXCEPT the return of Christ at the last trump.

There is always brotherly love for those who love the Lord. Even when you are wrong. ;)
 

Keras

Active member
Aug 9, 2020
160
36
28
#85
I don't understand the millennial reign, I know that it is referred to in The Revelation of John. I also don't understand the great tribulation.
Does judgement come directly after the great tribulation, or are we in it now?
The Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, is against the ungodly peoples. It will happen during the final 3 1/2 years of this age.
There will be a Millennium reign of King Jesus. He will return as King over the earth, as many prophesies say He will. Psalms 2:8, Isaiah 2:1-4, Revelation 19:11-16
The final Judgment of everyone who has ever lived, will take place after the 1000 year reign of Jesus. Revelation 20:11-15
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#86
And that is where all this started out......with agreement on those statements. No others.
I would say Christ returns to catch up His beloved at the last trump... and THEN the earth is destroyed with intense heat
..... but that may just be semantics unless it is further explored.
I guess we parted ways on the millennium issue, I say we are IN the Millinneum(s) now (Amillennist view), the age of when Revelation was written, and bible symbolism. That did not leave much to agree on after that.

Just to be clear: Premillenists advocate for a totally completely fulfilled prophecy including that Christ had already returned.
My eschatology is Amillenist, the prophesies are all fulfilled EXCEPT the return of Christ at the last trump.

There is always brotherly love for those who love the Lord. Even when you are wrong. ;)
I believe the 1,000 year reign is now also, it's symbolic speech of those that are in the spiritual realm, where there is no measurement of earthly time, One Day Is A Thousand Years.

We parted ways on your partial preterist belief that the AOD in Matthew 24:15 & the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21 were fulfilled in 70AD in the destruction of Jerusalem

I believe scripture clearly teaches the Man of Sin/Antichrist will be a (Future) human man, that will be revealed in Jerusalem claiming to be the returned Messiah to the Jews, who will cause the AOD and Great tribulation mentioned.

Preterism isn't looking for a future Man of Sin/Antichrist or a Great Tribulation, I believe this is deceptive.

Are the differences a matter of salvation (No) but I believe many will be deceived.

Just as Dispensationalism falsely teaches Jesus is going to return, and take a physical throne on this earth, and hang out with humans?

This will be the future Man of Sin/Antichrist, major deception.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
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#87
I believe the 1,000 year reign is now also, it's symbolic speech of those that are in the spiritual realm, where there is no measurement of earthly time, One Day Is A Thousand Years.

We parted ways on your partial preterist belief that the AOD in Matthew 24:15 & the Great Tribulation in Matthew 24:21 were fulfilled in 70AD in the destruction of Jerusalem

I believe scripture clearly teaches the Man of Sin/Antichrist will be a (Future) human man, that will be revealed in Jerusalem claiming to be the returned Messiah to the Jews, who will cause the AOD and Great tribulation mentioned.

Preterism isn't looking for a future Man of Sin/Antichrist or a Great Tribulation, I believe this is deceptive.

Are the differences a matter of salvation (No) but I believe many will be deceived.

Just as Dispensationalism falsely teaches Jesus is going to return, and take a physical throne on this earth, and hang out with humans?

This will be the future Man of Sin/Antichrist, major deception.
You are absolutely right.........we disagree on those points 100%.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
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#88
You are absolutely right.........we disagree on those points 100%.
Food For Thought?

You believe that the AOD and Great Tribulation took place in 70 AD, and look for a future second coming of Jesus Christ, the basic Partial Preterist position.

You will closely note below, the AOD in verse 15 causes the inhabitants to flee, and causes the Great Tribulation in verse 21 below

It's impossible to have a 70AD Great Tribulation, with a 1950+ year Gap waiting for the second coming representing the words (Immediately After)

(Immediately After The Tribulation Of Those Days)

(They Shall See The Son Of Man Coming In The Clouds Of Heaven)

The Three Events Are Tied Together Inseparable, no 1950+ year gap between the Great Tribulation and Second Coming

The Three Events Are Future, And Didn't Take Place In 70AD, (Immediately After The Tribulation) destroys the Partial Preterist teaching.

Matthew 24:15-21 & 29-30KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
#89
The Great Tribulation Is Identified in Matthew 24:21, its a future event, that will take place when the Future antichrist is revealed in Jerusalem, and causes the Abomination Of Desolation seen in Matthew 24:15

Preterist falsely claim these events were fulfilled in the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem, Titus/Caesar was the Antichrist, the great tribulation was the death and destruction in Jerusalem.

Preterist aren't looking for a future Antichrist or great tribulation, the teaching is deception.

Matthew 24:15-21KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
So here is where I have trouble.
Future temple? I don't think so.
Satan released to tempt man again.
So there can never be another "holy place" because, well ... Jesus.
And if Jesus millennial reign is spiritual totally, then who is Satan going to tempt?
I guess I just need an entire... Say out line of how this is all supposed to go down.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#90
Food For Thought?




Matthew 24:15-21 & 29-30KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
I shortened your post for the sake of space.

Please stop putting labels on what I believe. I have not read a book on any doctrine since I was a babe in Christ and got led down some broad roads!. What I believe might fit into one of those labels but I assure you that I only know that Preterism is Christ come already and AMil is looking for him. Both hold to a fulfilled prophesy position.....AS FAR AS I KNOW. If there is more to it I don't think I even want to know! Any nuances between the two I do not care about.

You posted a lot of scripture that I a williing to go over with you but one part at a time If we agree on that we can move on.??
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#91
So here is where I have trouble.
Future temple? I don't think so.
Satan released to tempt man again.
So there can never be another "holy place" because, well ... Jesus.
And if Jesus millennial reign is spiritual totally, then who is Satan going to tempt?
I guess I just need an entire... Say out line of how this is all supposed to go down.
==================================================================

Rapture.

7 Year Tribulation downstairs, Marriage Supper of the Lamb and Glorification upstairs.

Second Coming with the Saints.

Battle of Armageddon.

Satan casted into pit.

1000 year Millennial Reign on Earth.

Satan released and final rebellion.

Satan casted into Hell permanently.

Great White Throne Judgement.

New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven.

Final State.

===========================================================

Most of this can be seen with a literal interpretation of the last 3 or 4 chapters of Revelation. God Bless :)
 

Blade

Well-known member
Nov 19, 2019
1,801
631
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#92
Hard to even talk about this with this being posted "I strongly disagree, you state the popular teaching of man in error."

And your teaching is from? Yeah.. I seem to remember this over the years also comes from? Man.

You keep stating something as if its fact "it's 100% spiritual realm, " I can't find that verse at all. Yes yes I know the verses you use yet.. trying to tell others "what that really means".... not sure why your personal belief has to be the real one.... but ok.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#93
So here is where I have trouble.
Future temple? I don't think so.
Satan released to tempt man again.
So there can never be another "holy place" because, well ... Jesus.
And if Jesus millennial reign is spiritual totally, then who is Satan going to tempt?
I guess I just need an entire... Say out line of how this is all supposed to go down.
I don't necessarily buy into a rebuilt temple, but it's not ruled out, not a critical point, a man proclaiming to be the Messiah returned is the critical point.

Satan is a spirit, he will be loosed as already shown to you once, as seen in Revelation 16;12-17, the 6th vial is poured and Satan is released to send the devils unto the king's of the earth, right along with the beast and false prophet, in deception to gather the nations to Jerusalem to the battle of Armageddon.

Satan and the Devils are in the spirit world, the beast, false prophet, and kings of the earth are in the literal physical world.

Revelation 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#94
I shortened your post for the sake of space.

Please stop putting labels on what I believe. I have not read a book on any doctrine since I was a babe in Christ and got led down some broad roads!. What I believe might fit into one of those labels but I assure you that I only know that Preterism is Christ come already and AMil is looking for him. Both hold to a fulfilled prophesy position.....AS FAR AS I KNOW. If there is more to it I don't think I even want to know! Any nuances between the two I do not care about.

You posted a lot of scripture that I a williing to go over with you but one part at a time If we agree on that we can move on.??
Feel free, looking forward to your response :)
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
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#96
So here is where I have trouble.
Future temple? I don't think so.
Satan released to tempt man again.
So there can never be another "holy place" because, well ... Jesus.
And if Jesus millennial reign is spiritual totally, then who is Satan going to tempt?
I guess I just need an entire... Say out line of how this is all supposed to go down.
1.) The Antichrist Is Revealed In Jerusalem, Proclaiming To The World He Is God Messiah, He Takes His Seat Upon Peace, The 3.5 Year Tribulation Starts.

2.) The Two Witnesses in Revelation 11 Stand Before The Antichrist For The Entire 3.5 Years, Bringing All Plagues As Often As They Will, A Remake Of Moses/Aaron Against Pharaoh Of Egypt, The Church On Earth Is Divinely Protected.

3.)The Two Witnesses Finish Their Work And Are Killed In Jerusalem, They Lay In The Street For 3.5 Days, God Calls Them To Heaven, As The Final Hours Of Earth's Existence Unfolds.

4.) Jesus Christ Returns In The Same Final Hours As The Battle Of Armageddon Takes Place, The Nations Were Gathered Against The Two Witnesses, Who Tormented The World With Plagues, As The Lord Returns To Battle, He Consumes This Earth By His Fire In Final Judgement.

5.) At This Time The Righteous Pass Through The Fire To The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, All Men Are Judged By This Fire 1 Cor 3:13, The Wicked Are Caught In The Fire For Eternity, (The Lake Of Fire)

Judgement Complete Eternity Begins, In The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem.

There Will Be No Future 1,000 Year Kingdom On This Existing Earth, It's Been Dissolved By The Lord's Fire At His Return.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
113
#97
==================================================================

Rapture.

7 Year Tribulation downstairs, Marriage Supper of the Lamb and Glorification upstairs.

Second Coming with the Saints.

Battle of Armageddon.

Satan casted into pit.

1000 year Millennial Reign on Earth.

Satan released and final rebellion.

Satan casted into Hell permanently.

Great White Throne Judgement.

New Jerusalem comes down out of Heaven.

Final State.

===========================================================

Most of this can be seen with a literal interpretation of the last 3 or 4 chapters of Revelation. God Bless :)
You teach standard eschatology as seen in (Dispensationalism)

There Is No Pre-Trib Rapture In Scripture, A Complete Invention Of Man, John N. Darby 1830's and Promoted By C.I. Scofield's Reference Bible 1909

There Will Be A Future 3.5 Year Tribulation

There Will Be No Future Millennium, Jesus Christ Dissolves This Earth By Fire In Final Judgement At His Return.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
May 19, 2020
7,685
2,495
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#98
Hard to even talk about this with this being posted "I strongly disagree, you state the popular teaching of man in error."

And your teaching is from? Yeah.. I seem to remember this over the years also comes from? Man.

You keep stating something as if its fact "it's 100% spiritual realm, " I can't find that verse at all. Yes yes I know the verses you use yet.. trying to tell others "what that really means".... not sure why your personal belief has to be the real one.... but ok.
Do you see a physical earthly kingdom in the verses below?

Do you see mortal humans on this earth in the verses below?

The answer to both the questions above is (NO)

The Teaching That Revelation 20:1-6 Below Supports A Physical Earthly Kingdom With Mortal Humans Present Is A (False Teaching) It's That Simple (y)

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#99
Spiritualizing the return, the temple, the reign of Christ all that you do here is nothing short of blasphemy.
In your very words you deny that God is not capable of a physical event. To be witnessed by all.
I've seen your kind before. I've studied your lies.
John gives us a glimpse of heavens perspective but it is here on earth that all takes place.
It is prophetic that the earth shall be restored. That the remnant of Israel shall be redeemed.
You would do better to study the feast that yet need to be fulfilled in Christ.
The book of revelation has little to do with the saints as the time of the gentiles are fulfilled.
 
Jan 12, 2019
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Spiritualizing the return, the temple, the reign of Christ all that you do here is nothing short of blasphemy.
In your very words you deny that God is not capable of a physical event. To be witnessed by all.
I've seen your kind before. I've studied your lies.
John gives us a glimpse of heavens perspective but it is here on earth that all takes place.
It is prophetic that the earth shall be restored. That the remnant of Israel shall be redeemed.
You would do better to study the feast that yet need to be fulfilled in Christ.
The book of revelation has little to do with the saints as the time of the gentiles are fulfilled.
I can imagine the Jews during the OT time period, when they try to understand the prophecies regarding the Messiah, some of them must have also tried to spiritualize many of them.

Only after the NT, we realized that being sold for 30 pieces of silver, not one bone will broken, healing all the lame the blind and the death, were all fulfilled literally by Christ Jesus.

So its understandable why there will be some people who will insist on spiritualizing all the prophecies regarding the end times. They won't change their minds until they see it actually happening.