Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

[oldethennew]

are ya'll getting dizzy yet???

 

[John146]

are ya'll getting dizzy yet???

LOL, I love talking about Scripture. No enemies here, just some brethren discussing what saith the scriptures.

 

[OIC1965]

I know Eph 1. 4 doesn't say ' Chosen in Him 'to be saved 'before the Foundation of the world . I'm trying to enquire what you think it is saying ? Literally every usage of the terms Chosen , Election, elect always , always, always and like I said from the beginning ( not the beginning of time lol ) from the beginning of our conversation..It always refers to service and purpose . Every time . in the context . in the greek and in English ..Thats what it means . Its NEVER about salvation. Now you can all vauge on me about" all the bible is about salvation brother " . I got it . But their is no salvation in any sense about us before we existed . This is gnosctism. Gnostics taught the flesh is evil and totally depraved . This is where it all comes back to . Augustine creates the idea about God 'electing 'those before they existed . In order to refute pelagius in the forth century . Augustines ' total inability from birth starts with him and has influenced theology ever since . including the one you are trying to defend. The Arminain flavour of it .

Ephesians 1:4 says chose US before the foundation of the world. God said it, that settles it.

 

[OIC1965]

Because your thinking in terms of Doctrines rather than biblical usage of the words .

I’m thinking in terms of what the word means. Knowing is not foreknowing. God foreknew us before He called us and He called us before He justified us.

 

[OIC1965]

You are using step by step usage of doctrines that are ' Arminianism ' . I cant unsee it . You keep claiming that its just your own findings but each time your arguments are word for word Arminain . Whilst Arminsim isn't monolithic like Calvinism your still defending the majority of the Arminian position ..Which by my reckoning is just soft Calvinism.[/QUOTE

So by quoting scripture word for word, I’m defending Arminianism? Thanks for that insight.

 

[OIC1965]

philosophy again . We stop were the bible stops .

Then you should have stopped before you said God didnt foreknow is until we got saved.

 

[OIC1965]

YES! The spiritual blessings are in accordance to what God has chosen before the foundation of the world. Are those blessing are chosen us in Christ. We are not chosen, but what is found in Christ.

God chose US before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4

 

[EleventhHour]

'
You said a person has to be convinced to believe, right? Who does the convincing? You?

I do not ascribe to total inability.

I read convict not convince

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

 

[OIC1965]

///Scripture does not say chosen and predestinated after you believe. Nowhere///
.

Glad you realize that.

 

[John146]

I’m thinking in terms of what the word means. Knowing is not foreknowing. God foreknew us before He called us and He called us before He justified us.

God foreknew us before he predestinated us. God had prior knowledge of us as sons, before he determined out destination. The question is, when did God know us as a son?

 

[OIC1965]

I do not ascribe to total inability.

I read convict not convince

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

But you have to be convinced to believe, remember? Who does the convincing?

 

[OIC1965]

God foreknew us before he predestinated us. God had prior knowledge of us as sons, before he determined out destination. The question is, when did God know us as a son?

No, the question is when did God FOREKNOW us. Answer is in Ephesians 1:4-5.

Also in Romans 8. Foreknew before predestined. Predestined before called. Called before justified. Justified before glorified.

 

[John146]

God foreknew us before he predestinated us. God had prior knowledge of us as sons, before he determined out destination. The question is, when did God know us as a son?

See Galatians 4. It is a moment in time, not before the foundation of the world, not before we heard the gospel and believed. Galatians 4 plainly states, After that ye are known of God....AFTER

 

[OIC1965]

I do not ascribe to total inability.

I read convict not convince

8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

Define convict.

 

[OIC1965]

See Galatians 4. It is a moment in time, not before the foundation of the world, not before we heard the gospel and believed. Galatians 4 plainly states, After that ye are known of God....AFTER

So Paul contradicted himself.

Knowing is not the same as foreknowing.

 

[John146]

So Paul contradicted himself.

Knowing is not the same as foreknowing.

God knows me as son before the adoption of sons takes place. That's foreknowledge...knowing ahead of time.

 

[OIC1965]

Would you say 2 Tim 1.9 is a parallel ?

Sure. The first part of that verse is talking about calling, which follows foreknowledge and predestination in Romans 8:28-30 and the second part talks about what was granted in eternity,

Great verse

 

[OIC1965]

God knows me as son before the adoption of sons takes place. That's foreknowledge...knowing ahead of time.

Where do you see adoption in Romans 8:28-30?

 

[OIC1965]

Yes, same for 2 Corinthians 5

Is foreknowledge and predestination mentioned there?

 

[OIC1965]

Where do you see adoption in Romans 8:28-30?

Ephesians 1:4-5. Chosen and predestined BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.

God said it. It’s settled.