When are we saved ?
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If I am not mistaken, you are applying the word "WE" in verse 12 to be the natural man, when in actuality, it is referencing those that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, 1 Cor 1:1.
Those verses that have reference to the natural man, before he has been quickened, are verse 11 & 14.
Eph 2:1 indicates that the natural man that is still dead (spiritually) in trespasses and sins, and, therefore, cannot make a spiritual decision, because he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, is quickened to a new spiritual life, and then, and only then, can he began to understand spiritual things as he is taught, and grows thereby.
What you seem to be trying to do, is to make the natural, unspiritual man, be able to make a spiritual decision, in which , ha cannot do until he has been born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
The natural man only has faith in man and what he accomplishes 1 Cor 2:11.
You have been taught, falsely, that mankind has something to do to get delivered eternally, and the scriptures do not teach that.
Most all of God's , well intended, children do not divide the salvation scriptures properly. Save, salvation, saved, according to Greek, means, deliver, deliverance, delivered. We are delivered eternally, and we are delivered from the things of this world, as we sojourn here in this world, by following God's instructions as to how we are to live our lives.
There is a deliverance, eternally, not by our works, and there is a deliverance, here in time, by our good works, which confuses most into believing there is something we must do to get delivered eternally.
Scripture proves scripture, and they must all harmonize to understand the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
Those verses that have reference to the natural man, before he has been quickened, are verse 11 & 14.
Eph 2:1 indicates that the natural man that is still dead (spiritually) in trespasses and sins, and, therefore, cannot make a spiritual decision, because he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, is quickened to a new spiritual life, and then, and only then, can he began to understand spiritual things as he is taught, and grows thereby.
What you seem to be trying to do, is to make the natural, unspiritual man, be able to make a spiritual decision, in which , ha cannot do until he has been born with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
The natural man only has faith in man and what he accomplishes 1 Cor 2:11.
You have been taught, falsely, that mankind has something to do to get delivered eternally, and the scriptures do not teach that.
Most all of God's , well intended, children do not divide the salvation scriptures properly. Save, salvation, saved, according to Greek, means, deliver, deliverance, delivered. We are delivered eternally, and we are delivered from the things of this world, as we sojourn here in this world, by following God's instructions as to how we are to live our lives.
There is a deliverance, eternally, not by our works, and there is a deliverance, here in time, by our good works, which confuses most into believing there is something we must do to get delivered eternally.
Scripture proves scripture, and they must all harmonize to understand the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
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The Scripture is clear, God foreknew every single believers salvation, he created it, he is (God)
Romans 8:29:30KJV
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Romans 8:29:30KJV
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Heres the issue . The central point in Calvinism is the T in TULIP. The central point in Christianity is the death burial and resurrection..Thats the distinctive of Christianity. Bible believers Dont need Augustines T so Christianity is not impacted by the loss of it . Calvinism however hangs on the T . It does not exist without it. Thats a problem . Thats why a calvinist views the bible the way they do . Calvinism is not Christianity by the definition above. Because of its central point . All the ULIP comes from the T . The T is false . The ULIP as a consequence is also false . What are you left with ? Thats why its not christianity.
Psalm
53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, [A Psalm] of David. The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: [there is] none that doeth good.
53:2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were [any] that did understand, that did seek God.
53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.
53:4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people [as] they eat bread: they have not called upon God.
53:5 There were they in great fear, [where] no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth [against] thee: thou hast put [them] to shame, because God hath despised them.
53:6 Oh that the salvation of Israel [were come] out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, [and] Israel shall be glad.
All have sinned and come short. Few men seek God. Think of the days of Noah, Jeremiah, and so many others. Wicked men would love to try to excuse themselves by saying they cannot call upon the name of God. These verses expose them rather than excuse them.
53:1 To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, [A Psalm] of David. The fool hath said in his heart, [There is] no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity: [there is] none that doeth good.
53:2 God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were [any] that did understand, that did seek God.
53:3 Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; [there is] none that doeth good, no, not one.
53:4 Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people [as] they eat bread: they have not called upon God.
53:5 There were they in great fear, [where] no fear was: for God hath scattered the bones of him that encampeth [against] thee: thou hast put [them] to shame, because God hath despised them.
53:6 Oh that the salvation of Israel [were come] out of Zion! When God bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, [and] Israel shall be glad.
All have sinned and come short. Few men seek God. Think of the days of Noah, Jeremiah, and so many others. Wicked men would love to try to excuse themselves by saying they cannot call upon the name of God. These verses expose them rather than excuse them.