Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?

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Aug 14, 2019
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Same queen of heaven with a new new name Mary
Why wouldn't the King of heaven's mother not be the queen of heaven? A woman the Holy Spirit says is blessed and magnifies the Lord? Is she in hell?
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
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I used the word stead to mean substitute.

I used the word 'stead' to mean 'substitute'. Its quite appropriate.
Let see what antichrist from greek literal mean

Antichrist is translated from the combination of two ancient Greek words αντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). In Greek, Χριστός means "anointed one" and the word Christ derives from it.[6] "Αντί" means not only anti in the sense of "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of".[7][8]

I don't know why you change into stead. It similar but originally mean in place of.

So antichrist mean in place of, or you can say substitute of Christ.
To me God oN earth or some pope is antichrist.

Christ is God
Pope or God oN earth subtitute Christ oN earth

So pope is antichrist.
.
 

Jackson123

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Feb 6, 2014
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Why wouldn't the King of heaven's mother not be the queen of heaven? A woman the Holy Spirit says is blessed and magnifies the Lord? Is she in hell?
Not in the gospel, It is in another gospel
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Why do people stray from it
Why did the RCC stray from God's Word?
if it were the original Christian doctrine?
I believe the Abrahamic faith is much older and truer.
How does one know one's Christian walk is true with thousands of Christian sects each purporting to be the truth and damning other sects to hell?
Is Jesus the Way, the Truth and the Life?
Why do we put so much faith in our own opinions and call it God's opinion?
Don't know . Are you putting faith in your opinion or in God's Word?
Doesn't Christianity claim value to humility?
That is the fruit of the Spirit produced by His born again children.
How does thinking our opinion is God's opinion classify as such?
God's Word is not opinion and neither is ours as it accords with His Word.
 
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This is what happens when you home brew your own religion. You wind up rolling and smoking your own theology. Rome has an insufficient understanding of the atonement. You have an insufficient savior. In fact, your Jesus is unable to save.

1. John 10:30 The Father and I are one.

2. Philippians 2:5-6 You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.

3. John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

4. John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

5. Colossians 2:9-10 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority.

6. John 10:33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

7. John 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

8. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

9. John 1:14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

10. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

11. To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

12. Romans 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

13. John 8:57-58 The people said, “You aren’t even fifty years old. How can you say you have seen Abraham?” Jesus answered, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was even born, I Am!”

14. John 8:22-24 This made the Jews ask, “Will he kill himself? Is that why he says, ‘Where I go, you cannot come’?” But he continued, “You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.”

15. John 13:18-19 “I am not referring to all of you; I know those I have chosen. But this is to fulfill this passage of Scripture: ‘He who shared my bread has turned against me.’ “I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am.

16. Isaiah 44:6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: “I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.

17. 1 Corinthians 8:6 Yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

18. Revelation 2:8 “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.

19. Revelation 1:17-18 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

20. Matthew 2:1-2 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

21 Matthew 28:8-9 So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples. Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

22. Acts 7:59-60 And as they were stoning Stephen, he called out, “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.” And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them.” And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

23. Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

24. 2 Corinthians 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

John 20:27-28 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

25. 2 Peter 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

26. Acts 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
You can call it want you want but it is what he reveals in the Bible (sola scriptura) . it was not revealed by flesh and blood as if God was a man. That's what Peter thought in Mathew 16 when God inspired him to say. "thou are the Christ" it did not come from Peters fleshly mind . Peter thought he was it that in which the gates of hell could never prevail against and not the word our unseen father put in his lips . . . the gospel of our salvation.

Because God is not a man does that mean you refuse to serve him ?

Three things the Bible informs us that makes the essence of God . The Holy trinity .Not attributes of God like Father and Son but again the very essence . Remember eternal God is not a man. Eternal God remains without mother and father beginning of Spirt life or end thereof.

(1)God is Spirit. John 4:24

(2)God is light.1 John 1:5

(3) God is Love. 1 John 4:8

God is eternal Spirit not a man and neither is there any Pope or daysman that stands between God and man as a infallible umpire . Yes or no?

Yes overseers of the unseen Holy father . Not those who lord it over the faith of others.(kings, princes, queens or fathers) The abomination of desolation .The corrupted things of this world in the place and source of Christian faith .

That mutual faith that works in us is not of mankind (us) It as it is written would be the faith of Christ that worked in the Son of man the apostle, Jesus . Not of his own flesh which he said it profits for nothing and many of his disciples walked away faithless.

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

Not the Spirit of Peter or Mary

God surely does not speak out of both sides of his mouth .He was not teaching how to doubt wonder, not coming to the end of faith .That's a Catholic teaching elevating glorying in the corrupted flesh of mankind.

He was not teaching wondering doubting Thomas how to walk by sight after the course of this word as a seal of His approval. Lust of the flesh, lust of the eye, and false pride of this life, 1 John 2:16

Remember the word that the apostles spoke were of the unseen Lord and father who commands us to believe. not a suggestion. Its what happen with wondering doubting Thomas. The Father gave Jesus words like all apostles . Jesus did not do the will of the flesh .

John 20:26-28 King James Version (KJV)26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not (the commandment) faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Peters confession of faith it was caused by the work of the Holy Spirit that worked in Peter to both will and do the good pleasure of God. Just like with Peter. It was not revealed by flesh and blood. That work of Christ faith. It put away his childish doubt and wondering.

Again our Holy Father was not teaching Thomas how to walk by sight .Glorying in the flesh that's a Catholic teaching. They turn things upside down as is inspired earthly taking away the understanding of all thing written in the law and prophets (sola scriptura)
 
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A
Let see what antichrist from greek literal mean

Antichrist is translated from the combination of two ancient Greek words αντί + Χριστός (anti + Christos). In Greek, Χριστός means "anointed one" and the word Christ derives from it.[6] "Αντί" means not only anti in the sense of "against" and "opposite of", but also "in place of".[7][8]

I don't know why you change into stead. It similar but originally mean in place of.

So antichrist mean in place of, or you can say substitute of Christ.
To me God oN earth or some pope is antichrist.

Christ is God
Pope or God oN earth subtitute Christ oN earth

So pope is antichrist.
.
I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt. It means what the author intended it to mean. Isn't that a rule for you?
 
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Not in the gospel, It is in another gospel
Does it conflict with the Gospel in some way? Is there some reason you think that if Jesus' mother is in heaven with Jesus is another Gospel?
That Jesus would accept for Himself the title King but deny His mother the title proper to who she is? I don't see a reason for it to be another Gospel.
 
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You can call it want you want but it is what he reveals in the Bible (sola scriptura) . it was not revealed by flesh and blood as if God was a man
Jesus didn't need the 12 Apostles or any apostles if that were true. If that were true why would God bother to become a man?
 
Mar 28, 2016
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Why wouldn't the King of heaven's mother not be the queen of heaven? A woman the Holy Spirit says is blessed and magnifies the Lord? Is she in hell?
All born again believers are blessed as born again .And no our sister in the Lord, Mary is not in hell.

God is not a man. First and foremost Eternal Spirit as Lord of lords of heaven has no mother or father bringing of days(Spirit life) or end thereof .He is not a created being mankind, created from the dust.

Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

Its easy to see the idea of a “gebirah" earthly king could be married .No one is denying that.

But to take that and turn it into those who Lord it over the faith, the beliefs of what are called non venerable (worship-able ones) pew sitters was developed under the time period when God had given over the faithless (no faith coming from all things written in the law and the prophets sola scriptura ) .

The faithless had gathered their own selves together not be called by God . and demanded the same Pagan faithless foundation of the surrounding Pagan nations They refuse to worship a King our heavily Father not seen by sola scriptura. They would have nothing to do with our Holy Father as King of kings and Lord of lords.(atheist, fools no God in their hearts ) The abomination of desolation making the word of God without effect.

1 Samuel 8: 4-7 Then all the elders of Israel gathered themselves together, and came to Samuel unto Ramah, And said unto him, Behold, thou art old, and thy sons walk not in thy ways: now make us a king to judge us like all the nations.
But the thing displeased Samuel, when they said, Give us a king to judge us. And Samuel prayed unto the Lord. And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

Therefore introducing queens' paganism.

God gave them over to do that which they should not of until the time of reformation (the first century) Using that time period as a parable . Today the time period of Judges has ben restored. No person siting in the place of the admonition of desolation .The place the Pope sits proudly.

Hebrew 9:8-10 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of "reformation".

They are those who saw "no evil" in developing a queen in heaven to lord it over the faith. . . again of the non venerable .
They would have nothing to do with the word that came from the mouth of the King of kings But made it a requirement as a law of the fathers to do whatsoever comes from their own mouth as oral traditions of men .(fathers, kings, princes ) The things seen in the unseen Holy place of Christ's faith. (abomination of desolation Kings in Israel ).

Same queen of heaven different name that the Catholic fathers have named "Mary". Same law of the fathers, different fathers.

Same authority as it is written in the law and prophets(sola scriptura) that our one Father in heaven used to reform and restore in both reformations. God is not a man

Jerimiah 44: 16-19 As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee.
But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine. And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
 
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Jesus didn't need the 12 Apostles or any apostles if that were true. If that were true why would God bother to become a man?
God cannot become a man. He has no beginning or end of Spirit life as eternal Spirit.

Changing the meaning of "sent one" not "venerable one". Like I sent my son to the grocery store with a written list is obvious.

There are 27 listed in the new testament . God set aside twelve for another purpose other that to be worshipped, venerated .

The first recorded apostle(sent one) and martyr ( sufferer persecution) for the faith that worked in him to both will and do the good pleasure of his God, was Abel

'God had the fulness of grace or favor on him. His blood cries out even today to be clothed with the incorruptible born again .No one has received it. Hebrew 11:38

Therefore its easy to see Catholiscim violates the warning in Deuteronomy 4:3 as well as the last verse verse Revelation 22 adding and subtracting from the perfect. .The two working as one to protect the integrity of God's word.

Not to add or take away the foundation of a word Deuteronomy 4:3. Catholicism does that with many words so that they can lord it over the non venerable pew sitters .The same with the word saint changing it into the venerable. as "patron saints" .Disembodied workers with familiar spirits (3500 and rising picking up new recruits speed

All born again Christians are saints. Out of all sinners in the world he set Christians aside by having mercy and fullness of grace on us. Promising us (Philippians 1:6) If ??? He has begun the good work of salvation in us he will work with us making our burden lighter till the last day .. . . being a saint. . . . . it is not something appointed by sinful men.

The non venerable who cannot seek the approval of our unseen Holy Father according to His loving commandment in 2 Timothy 2:15. I would think if they would obey the loving commandment to study (sola scriptura) the worries of men lording it over the faith of the non-venerable would disappear.

What do you think?
 
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What evidence do you have that Jesus was internally conflicted?
The evidence of the Son of man Jesus the apostle who spoke the words of our Holy Father by doing the will of another took away the internal conflict of thoughts of his flesh.

Many disciplines who desired we do walk after the flesh (the temporal) as that seen walked away when the gospel offended them as a hard saying .They stopped up their ears and walked away faithless.

Peter was given a answer from the Father it agreed with Jesus two walking in agreement . Jesus has words of eternal life .Not flesh of eternal life. He declared His own flesh profits for zero, nothing, zip. God is not a man.

It would seem you have a different authroity other than the word of Gods unseen authority of faith ?

John6:60-68 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? (out of sight) It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that "time" many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

No such thing as flesh of eternal life . It returns to the dust.

Will you serve a God who has no form?
 
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The evidence of the Son of man Jesus the apostle who spoke the words of our Holy Father by doing the will of another took away the internal conflict of thoughts of his flesh.
When did that happen to Jesus?
 

Athanasius377

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Aug 20, 2020
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ou can call it want you want but it is what he reveals in the Bible (sola scriptura) . it was not revealed by flesh and blood as if God was a man. That's what Peter thought in Mathew 16 when God inspired him to say. "thou are the Christ" it did not come from Peters fleshly mind . Peter thought he was it that in which the gates of hell could never prevail against and not the word our unseen father put in his lips . . . the gospel of our salvation.

Because God is not a man does that mean you refuse to serve him ?
Your theology historically is heretical. It's called arianism and has been condemned since Nicaea. But what I detect is this is coming from a dualistic worldview. Again, not a christian (historically) worldview that sees the flesh as evil and spirit as good. Remember God created the Heavens and the Earth and then Man. And it was GOOD! Flesh has become corrupted due the fall. Man was made in His image and we still posess the Imago Dei.

Because God is not a man does that mean you refuse to serve him ?
Who is this god, Allah? It certainly is not the God I serve. And I refuse to serve any god that isn't the Triune God revealed in Holy Scripture.

Three things the Bible informs us that makes the essence of God . The Holy trinity .Not attributes of God like Father and Son but again the very essence . Remember eternal God is not a man. Eternal God remains without mother and father beginning of Spirt life or end thereof.
You confuse Essence, or better yet Substance with Person. The Eternal God the Son was incarnated (enfleshed) at His first Advent. What's the son of a duck? A Duck, right? What's the Son of God?, God the Son, different person, same substance.

That mutual faith that works in us is not of mankind (us) It as it is written would be the faith of Christ that worked in the Son of man the apostle, Jesus . Not of his own flesh which he said it profits for nothing and many of his disciples walked away faithless.

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;
You should probably get a translation of the Bible you understand. Paul is quoting from Psalm 116:10 here:
But having the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I BELIEVED, THEREFORE I SPOKE,” we also believe, therefore we also speak,

But having the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, “I believed, therefore I spoke,” we also believe, therefore we also speak,

14 knowing that He who raised the Lord Jesus will raise us also with Jesus and will present us with you.

15 For all things are for your sakes, so that the grace which is spreading to more and more people may cause the giving of thanks to abound to the glory of God.

16 Therefore we do not lose heart, but though our outer man is decaying, yet our inner man is being renewed day by day.

17 For momentary, light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory far beyond all comparison,

18 while we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen; for the things which are seen are temporal, but the things which are not seen are eternal.



New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. (1995). (2 Co 4:13–18). La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.

It doesn't say what you thought it says, huh? He even draws attention to it by using the sacred formula, "it is written".

Remember the word that the apostles spoke were of the unseen Lord and father who commands us to believe. not a suggestion. Its what happen with wondering doubting Thomas. The Father gave Jesus words like all apostles . Jesus did not do the will of the flesh .
And what did Thomas say to Jesus. My Lord and my. . . . . . .God. Right?

After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus *came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst and said, “Peace be with you.”

27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”



New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. (1995). (Jn 20:26–29). La Habra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.


Friend, you have no basis to criticize the Roman church. Of all their problems and there are many, Rome is at least Trinitarian.
 
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Many disciplines who desired we do walk after the flesh (the temporal
God didn't intend for our earthly life to end in death.

The flesh is not a symbol of temporal existence.
We were created to be with God in heaven body and all.

Earth is a symbol of temporal reality. Sin is the reason our bodies are temporary and only temporarily...:LOL:
 
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Even if it would be good to do God couldn't do it? Does He not have the power?
I don't see any good in creating two Gods and calling them both eternal without a beginning . Impossible .

In that way only God our unseen Lord and Master is good. Good is used as the invisible seal of God's approval revealing who he is. "Let there be" and it was "good" .the daily declaration of his unseen approval of faith and that was good. Defining the word good in Genesis.

When the Son of man, Jesus the apostle was called good master .He refused to become a object of desolation, making the unseen faith that worked in Jesus the Son of man without effect.

The Holy Father gave words to His prophet and apostle Jesus .Giving glory to our unseen God. He alone is our good Master the infallible teacher.

Mark 10:16-18 King James Version (KJV) And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them.
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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God cannot become a man...

What do you think?
I think you need to read the first chapter of John :)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
 
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Your theology historically is heretical as a law of the fathers (oral traditions of men) . They are the same ones that call all of the other private interpretation as personal commentaries of men who rightly divide (sola scriptura ) a heresy making their heresy (opinion) as if it was the Devine Master. .
The non private interpretation of men Gods interpretation the bible must be put on the back burner. It has no authroity to those who seek after a law of men .

The Bible informs us there must be heresies (sects) amongst Christians who do walk by faith . . the unseen eternal.

But sola scriptura informs us those heresies that are damnable or judgable .They are those who deny Christ who gives new spiritual life as a free gift of His grace and mercy to those born again .


That is were the Queen of heaven . . . . the usurping authority of the fathers comes in. The Catholics fathers teach that this Queen entity they have named Mary alone received the "fullness of Christ grace" .All other humans a unknown remnant of grace and they must offer their own sufferings (anything) over and over and continue even after talking their last breath for another unknow remnant of time or severity of sufferings. The lying wonder mystic doctrine . . never to coming to the end of faith. No living hope. . a dead hope in their own corrupted flesh and blood hoping it could profit for something. ?????.

We must be careful who and how we hear what the Spirit says to the churches .Not what the churches sects says to the church, as doctrines of men

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.