Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

[throughfaith]

Depends on what the basis of election is. Foreseen faith?

What does ' forseen faith do? does God then ' arrange ' the predicted outcome in time ? and of course seeing ahead for those that don't beli

Yep I was

before time began I was predestined to be conformed to the image of God because I heard the word, and after hearing believed (eph 1)

again, if you would stop trying to defeat calvinism so much you may be able to see this

How about God being pleased because you believed the Gospel ( 1 cor 1.21 ) Then you recieved Jesus ( john 1.12 )
Then you were sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
Then Predestined to the Adoption ( rom 8.23 ) simultaneously After you believed . Of course amongst other things . Why do you need to have a secret election in eternity past before you existed where God planned all along for you to be saved ,because he saw you would believe ? ( That the bible speaks nothing about . But rather leans drastically on eiesigesis of Eph1.4 )

 

[OIC1965]

Before we believe,

Funny, okay well could be worse LOL ... of course God knows who will believe.

Through faith says God elects after we believe. We say He elects before, in eternity past based on His foreknowledge. The result is the same, except in one view you have a watering down of the Divine attribute of Omniscience.

Defining foreknowledge as foreseen faith is as far as I will go. It is somewhat of a struggle to even go that far. But it is also a bigger struggle to go to unconditional election. Basically, I don’t think any of us fully comprehend election. I think the doctrine just needs to be accepted as written, even when we can’t wrap our heads around it.

 

[OIC1965]

Are you sure.. half a dozen? Well I admitted to not following the conversation too closely.

I guess then I would ask does He give this faith to all or just some?

Because if it is just some ... as in people do not have the "ability to believe" I would have to disagree.

I think scripture states all have been given the ability to believe but some suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

I said offered to all but not accepted by all

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What does ' forseen faith do? does God then ' arrange ' the predicted outcome in time ? and of course seeing ahead for those that don't beli

until You change your thinking you will never see, I thing I am going to ignore these probing questions that are asked to get a calvin slant, if your not going to listen to people Outside of that you will never understand

the question you asked is nonsensical,and no where near what I think

How about God being pleased because you believed the Gospel ( 1 cor 1.21 ) Then you recieved Jesus ( john 1.12 )
Then you were sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
Then Predestined to the Adoption ( rom 8.23 ) simultaneously After you believed . Of course amongst other things . Why do you need to have a secret election in eternity past before you existed where God planned all along for you to be saved ,because he saw you would believe ? ( That the bible speaks nothing about . But rather leans drastically on eiesigesis of Eph1.4 )

secret election? Predestined after?

how can I be predestined after if it happened defore time began

secret election, again nonsensical question, because God knew, and it was not a secret even Jesus said, you gave them to me, them and all who would believe like them

 

[throughfaith]

Yep I was

before time began I was predestined to be conformed to the image of God because I heard the word, and after hearing believed (eph 1)

again, if you would stop trying to defeat calvinism so much you may be able to see this

I m simply stating what the bible says . I see some believe in Augustines Total depravity and as a consequence unconditional ( or ) conditional election and irresistible ( or ) previenient grace . I cant unsee these facts . I don't hold to Augustines Total depravity or ' election ' having anything to do with salvation ( rather, serving and purpose ect ) . Now if you disagree with the labels, fine . But these are the facts .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I m simply stating what the bible says . I see some believe in Augustines Total depravity and as a consequence unconditional ( or ) conditional election and irresistible ( or ) previenient grace . I cant unsee these facts . I don't hold to Augustines Total depravity or ' election ' having anything to do with salvation ( rather, serving and purpose ect ) . Now if you disagree with the labels, fine . But these are the facts .

I am stating what the Bible says also

i am not looking at it from an Augustine or calvin view, from an arminians view, from a catholic, baptist Lutheran COC, Methodist or any other view

i read the word, and interpret it for what it says, if it agrees with someone view, so be it. if Not, so be it, it does not matter. If I discuss it with someone, I will not discuss what I think they believe I will ask them kindly and try to learn

 

[throughfaith]

until You change your thinking you will never see, I thing I am going to ignore these probing questions that are asked to get a calvin slant, if your not going to listen to people Outside of that you will never understand

the question you asked is nonsensical,and no where near what I think



secret election? Predestined after?

how can I be predestined after if it happened defore time began

secret election, again nonsensical question, because God knew, and it was not a secret even Jesus said, you gave them to me, them and all who would believe like them

do you see " elect ' and predestined are just words right ? they don't do anything until we add meaning and context. The problem with Christianity we have so much theological baggage . Words have years of theological bias and presuppositions. Triggers go off in peoples minds ,just with the words. ' Elect ' ping !!!! " this means .... predestined ping !!!!! this means .....right now type in Google ' predestination 'and see what comes up ..PING !!!!!
///state of being predestinated or predestined. fate; destiny. Theology. the action of God in foreordaining from eternity whatever comes to pass. the decree of God by which certain souls are foreordained to salvation.///

But the word just simply means ' choose a destination ahead of time . For those that are in Christ, God has chosen all those to glorification. Thats it . Simple

 

[OIC1965]

do you see " elect ' and predestined are just words right ? they don't do anything until we add meaning and context. The problem with Christianity we have so much theological baggage . Words have years of theological bias and presuppositions. Triggers go off in peoples minds ,just with the words. ' Elect ' ping !!!! " this means .... predestined ping !!!!! this means .....right now type in Google ' predestination 'and see what comes up ..PING !!!!!
///state of being predestinated or predestined. fate; destiny. Theology. the action of God in foreordaining from eternity whatever comes to pass. the decree of God by which certain souls are foreordained to salvation.///

But the word just simply means ' choose a destination ahead of time . For those that are in Christ, God has chosen all those to glorification. Thats it . Simple

Ok, let’s do this.

Define foreknowledge for us

 

[John146]

Since Christ is the Great Shepherd of the Church, how can sheep to restricted to only Jews?

For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. (1 Pet 2:25)

Christ is called (1) the Good Shepherd (John 14:11), (2) the Great Shepherd (Heb 13:20), and (3) the Chief shepherd (1 Pet 5:4). And all God's children are His sheep.

Why doesn’t Paul ever state this to the body of Christ? John, Peter, Hebrews...

 

[throughfaith]

I am stating what the Bible says also

i am not looking at it from an Augustine or calvin view, from an arminians view, from a catholic, baptist Lutheran COC, Methodist or any other view

i read the word, and interpret it for what it says, if it agrees with someone view, so be it. if Not, so be it, it does not matter. If I discuss it with someone, I will not discuss what I think they believe I will ask them kindly and try to learn

Famously there are certain doctrines that stand out and are tied to their name sakes ( Their originators ) Christianity has been established long enough now that its easy to spot certain theological persuasions. We can say " hey are you a Calvinist / Arminain/ luthern / Methodist/ . Some may say " yeah " proudly . Thats fine . Others may be ok if you said " hey you know what you believe is pretty close if not the same as such and such ( ism ) " hey I've never read their works , but ok ,I don't disagree with their works now you've explained them, cool " .

 

[throughfaith]

Ok, let’s do this.

Define foreknowledge for us

is that how it shows up in the bible?

 

[OIC1965]

is that how it shows up in the bible?

Yes, but Better yet. Define the verb “foreknew”. Found in Romans 8:29-30

 

[Duskey]

Yes, but I said Romans 5:18 applies only to believers because they only are made alive in Christ. Doesn’t that verse talk about being made alive in Christ? Therefore that part only is true of believers, which is why I said “ all believers”.

The Scripture says all people not all believers. One sin condemned all people; Jesus’ righteousness affords the OPPORTUNITY of salvation for all people.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

do you see " elect ' and predestined are just words right ? they don't do anything until we add meaning and context. The problem with Christianity we have so much theological baggage . Words have years of theological bias and presuppositions. Triggers go off in peoples minds ,just with the words. ' Elect ' ping !!!! " this means .... predestined ping !!!!! this means .....right now type in Google ' predestination 'and see what comes up ..PING !!!!!
///state of being predestinated or predestined. fate; destiny. Theology. the action of God in foreordaining from eternity whatever comes to pass. the decree of God by which certain souls are foreordained to salvation.///

But the word just simply means ' choose a destination ahead of time . For those that are in Christ, God has chosen all those to glorification. Thats it . Simple

thats your view

i can not agree, it does not make me a calvinist

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Famously there are certain doctrines that stand out and are tied to their name sakes ( Their originators ) Christianity has been established long enough now that its easy to spot certain theological persuasions. We can say " hey are you a Calvinist / Arminain/ luthern / Methodist/ . Some may say " yeah " proudly . Thats fine . Others may be ok if you said " hey you know what you believe is pretty close if not the same as such and such ( ism ) " hey I've never read their works , but ok ,I don't disagree with their works now you've explained them, cool " .

Well we listen to them

or take the word at what it says inspite of the,

 

[throughfaith]

when Calvinists or Arminians alike assume “the elect” are the new covenant believers, they are not speaking in the same categories as the biblical authors do. The OT is abundantly clear that Israel is the elect of God. Nothing in scripture says He ever abandoned Israel. Jesus confirms their election during His earthly ministry when speaking of His second coming in the last days. The apostle Paul states that Israel never lost their election (Romans 9:4-5, Romans 11:2, Romans 11:28, 2 Timothy 2:10). Saved or lost, they are still His chosen people. God swore He would never forsake His chosen people (1 Samuel 12:22).

“Therefore I endure all things for the sake of Israel, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.”

“Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the Jews, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.”

“Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the circumcision, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.”
Leighton flowers .

 

[OIC1965]

The Scripture says all people not all believers. One sin condemned all people; Jesus’ righteousness affords the OPPORTUNITY of salvation for all people.

I’m referring to the second clause of the verse.

 

[throughfaith]

Yes, but Better yet. Define the verb “foreknew”. Found in Romans 8:29-30

' Whom' defines ' foreknew ' . Gal 4 explains it
6¶And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
8¶Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now , after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God , how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

 

[throughfaith]

Yes, but I said Romans 5:18 applies only to believers because they only are made alive in Christ. Doesn’t that verse talk about being made alive in Christ? Therefore that part only is true of believers, which is why I said “ all believers”.

Go back a few verses in Rom 5 .

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

Verse 8 explains that Jesus died for sinners . So that's everyone without exception.

Verse 9 explains that ' much more ' than Jesus dying for everyone's sins ( without exception ) after we believed we were justified by his blood and we will never fall under his wrath now ( through him )

Verse 10 For if when we( Every sinner without exception) were enemies ,every one without exception was reconciled to God by the death of his Son . Much more because everyone without exception was reconciled they will be reconciled because of his life ( resurrection) . So if they believe the Gospel they will be saved by his life .

Verse 11 explains that even though everyone without exception was reconciled by his death , to be saved by his life they need to recieve the atonement.

 

[Gregoryp]

What does ' forseen faith do? does God then ' arrange ' the predicted outcome in time ? and of course seeing ahead for those that don't beli

How about God being pleased because you believed the Gospel ( 1 cor 1.21 ) Then you recieved Jesus ( john 1.12 )
Then you were sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption.
Then Predestined to the Adoption ( rom 8.23 ) simultaneously After you believed . Of course amongst other things . Why do you need to have a secret election in eternity past before you existed where God planned all along for you to be saved ,because he saw you would believe ? ( That the bible speaks nothing about . But rather leans drastically on eiesigesis of Eph1.4 )

i will just say again, I can testify that indeed some people are chosen before they are even born. My testimony is long but I will say at the age of ten years old, I was thinking about what I wanted to be when I grew up, the first word that entered my head was priest. After that it felt like an electric current ran through me. From that moment onwards life was not the same. So yes, people are ordained and chosen before they were even born. Why it has taken 38 pages so far to debate that is beyond me.