Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

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1ofthem

1ofthem

Senior Member
#401
Mar 30, 2016
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#401
OIC1965 said:
Chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him in love. Having predestinated us etc. . ..Ephesians 1:4-5

Clear as can be.

Let’s just agree to disagree, because Were just going in circles
Click to expand...
This one does give me pause for thought. Chose us in him before the foundation of the world. Then in another scripture it says Jesus or the lamb was slain from the begging of the world. So is this God's foresight and foreknowledge?

Also, another thought, can he chose us in him mean...Chose us in Jesus' through his atonement....because that is is the only way we can be holy and blameless is through his sacrifice. If you continue on in that chapter it talks about the adoption of children by Jesus Christ himself.

So could this just be saying that anyone who accepts the gift of salvation then becomes elected or adopted in him? Since we know other scriptures clearly state that whosoever calls upon him and believes in him shall be saved. To me this states, the prerequisite for salvation.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#402
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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#402
OIC1965 said:
Chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him in love. Having predestinated us etc. . ..Ephesians 1:4-5

Clear as can be.

Let’s just agree to disagree, because Were just going in circles
Click to expand...
1¶Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2¶Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3¶Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ⁷who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in christ :
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,( for what ? ) that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5having predestinated us unto the adoption( yet future ) of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

9Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in christ.
13¶in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, ( the spirit OF adoption )
14Which is the earnest of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption ( ROM 8.23 ) of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 2
1¶And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4¶But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places ...(where? ) in christ jesus :
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#403
Sep 19, 2020
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#403
throughfaith said:
to the adoption .
Again why is Paul writing? what's the central theme ? who's his audience? it might help to zoom out of the proof text .
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the central theme of Ephesians is the church composed of believing Jews and Gentiles, which Paul calls a “mysterion”
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#404
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
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#404
1ofthem said:
This one does give me pause for thought. Chose us in him before the foundation of the world. Then in another scripture it says Jesus or the lamb was slain from the begging of the world. So is this God's foresight and foreknowledge?

Also, another thought, can he chose us in him mean...Chose us in Jesus' through his atonement....because that is is the only way we can be holy and blameless is through his sacrifice. If you continue on in that chapter it talks about the adoption of children by Jesus Christ himself.

So could this just be saying that anyone who accepts the gift of salvation then becomes elected or adopted in him? Since we know other scriptures clearly state that whosoever calls upon him and believes in him shall be saved. To me this states, the prerequisite for salvation.
Click to expand...
Yes, I agree with what you say here. It’s called corporate election. But I also believe in personal foreknowledge, and therefore personal election.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#405
#405
throughfaith said:
Of course its a false dichotomy. No one is elected to be saved . So the conditional v unconditional is ridiculous .
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If this is your view that’s fine
when you added the words Arminian and Calvin and said something about arminians converting. It made the post useless. Just another inflamitiry post that really does not help your case
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#406
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
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#406
Blain said:
Psalms 51:5
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,

and before you were born jI consecrated you;

I appointed you a prophet kto the nations
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????

Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#407
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
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#407
1ofthem said:
Yeah, that is a good point.

Just my opinion but here is some of my thoughts on it:

I think God appoints or elects certain people for certain work for him.

However, I think that he still gives them a choice in whether they will follow and obey and do it, though.

In one place, in scripture he said that if the people didn't praise him the rocks would cry out....Luke 19: 37-40

And then again in another scripture he told them not to use the fact that they were the children of Abraham as an excuse because he could raise the stones up as children to Abraham. Matthew 3:9

But of course, it could also just be his foreknowledge and foresight. He does know the end from the begging and everything in between, so he knows what is going to happen, but I believe he gives us all a choice for salvation.
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Yes. Divine predestination and election is not compatible with a limited creaturely will in man.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#409
Jan 13, 2016
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#409
OIC1965 said:
Psalm 139:16
Jeremiah 1:5
Ephesians 1:4-5
Click to expand...

???

Psalm 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Before my body was formed, God saw me. I was yet a substance, unperfect, not formed...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#410
#410
OIC1965 said:
If you had read my post correctly, you would know that I did not present a false dichotomy. I actually said I feel it is possible that neither gives an fully adequate answer.

For the record, your position is conditional election. You are not elect until you believe. That is a condition. Not saying you’re wrong in that, just that it’s silly for you to say false dichotomy, when you adhere to one of the sides.
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When your reading everything from preconceived ideas Or looking to attack a side sadly this is what you get. Which is why I said it’s impossible to have a meaningful conversation
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#411
Sep 19, 2020
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#411
Nehemiah6 said:
Election for service is one kind of election. Election for perfection and glorification is the other kind of election. But yes, there is no such thing as election for salvation, since that would contravene the Gospel.
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Isn’t glorification a part of salvation, ie the completion of it?
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#412
Jan 13, 2016
17,097
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#412
OIC1965 said:
I think the poster means Jeremiah 1:5
Click to expand...

Not before I was in the womb, but before I was formed in the womb. It matches up with Psalm 139. God set Jeremiah apart to be a prophet. What does this have to do with us?

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#413
#413
OIC1965 said:
Ephesians 1:5. Chosen to be holy and without blame before Him in love

That’s not salvation?!!

I see justification and sanctification right there. And Paul doesn’t end there. He continues for the next ten verses or so.
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Not to mention vs 13 and 14 and chapter 2: 8-10
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#414
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
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113
#414
OIC1965 said:
Chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him in love. Having predestinated us etc. . ..Ephesians 1:4-5

Clear as can be.

Let’s just agree to disagree, because Were just going in circles
Click to expand...
1¶Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
2¶Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
3¶Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, ⁷who has blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in christ :
4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,( for what ? ) that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5having predestinated us unto the adoption( yet future ) of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
OIC1965 said:
Chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him in love. Having predestinated us etc. . ..Ephesians 1:4-5

Clear as can be.

Let’s just agree to disagree, because Were just going in circles
Click to expand...
out of interest, do you hold to eternal security?
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#415
Sep 19, 2020
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#415
John146 said:
???

Psalm 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.

Before my body was formed, God saw me. I was yet a substance, unperfect, not formed...
Click to expand...
Which word is the translation of yomiym
 
O

OIC1965

Well-known member
#419
Sep 19, 2020
2,754
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#419
John146 said:
Don't care. I have the exact English word in the KJV.
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In the Hebrew, the plural word for yom (day) is used. I don’t see anything that equates to “day” in your version.
 
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