Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

[throughfaith]

For anyone who's interested. ( im not saying I agree with everything Flowers says ) I think this is useful .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I've not mentioned double predestination. I'm arguing for what the bible says . Categories are difficult to avoid . As Arminism and Calvinism have a specific worldview . We use that as a reference in which we can base a discussion on .

Your question about me and God causes them to believe is a calvinist double predestination jab. As many believe they think God causes them to believe
come on man, that’s my point, you do not have to mention it, it’s in the air

 

[OIC1965]

1cor 10 .32
Give no offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God,

Yes, the first two groups are referring to unsaved people and the third is referring to saved people.

 

[throughfaith]

That’s fine until you start making every post you make about calvin and all your thinking comes from a calvin or anti calvin viewpoint,

Or a lot of folks respond with reformed arguments on here .

 

[OIC1965]

So what's the issue . God s choosing after we believe is that those in Christ are guaranteed future Adoption as Rom 8.23 and every verse on predestination clearly SAYS . You are arguing that God has predestined people to BE saved . Is this the case ?

Chosen in Him before the foundation of the world. Ephesians 1:4.

 

[throughfaith]

Your question about me and God causes them to believe is a calvinist double predestination jab. As many believe they think God causes them to believe
come on man, that’s my point, you do not have to mention it, it’s in the air

Like I said.
PREDESTINATION .
either its :
1) God chooses people to be saved before they exist based on absolute predestination.
2) God chooses people on the basis of ' forseen faith .
3) All those in Christ are then predestined ( only after they believe ) to guaranteed future Glorification . ( Adoption / inheritance/ ect .

ELECTION
1) This is basically used synonymous with Predestined .
2) Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

FOREKNOW .
“Foreknow” is being known by God in the sense of Gal. 4:9 after conversion and before glorification as if already glorified. It does not refer to any time prior to conversion. (Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29-30; 1 Pet. 1:2)

Both Calvinism and Arminism make similar cases which is because they come from the same faulty pot .
If you don't agree with Calvinsm or Arminism on these points , then fair enough. But as a reference I'm using categories to highlight differences.

 

[OIC1965]

For anyone who's interested. ( im not saying I agree with everything Flowers says ) I think this is useful .

Is your objection to the Doctrine of Depravity? That man fell in Adam and is therefore sinful and slaves of sin, and therefore unable to please God apart from a Divine work on his or her behalf?

 

[OIC1965]

No I'm not a Open theist. They also mess up 'predestination ', 'election ' ' Foreknowlwdge ' .
My position is that i want to start with the bible and not philosophy about the will of man or how God knows things ect . If we just stop where the bible stops we won't go into theories about God .

So if God is Omniscient, does it not follow that He knew we would believe before we believed? So why do you think He needs to wait until we believe to make all these wonderful plans for us?

 

[John146]

Like I said.
PREDESTINATION .
either its :
1) God chooses people to be saved before they exist based on absolute predestination.
2) God chooses people on the basis of ' forseen faith .
3) All those in Christ are then predestined ( only after they believe ) to guaranteed future Glorification . ( Adoption / inheritance/ ect .

ELECTION
1) This is basically used synonymous with Predestined .
2) Election is to service, calling and purpose, not to salvation. (Isa. 42:1; Acts 9:15; Rom. 11:28)

FOREKNOW .
“Foreknow” is being known by God in the sense of Gal. 4:9 after conversion and before glorification as if already glorified. It does not refer to any time prior to conversion. (Gal. 4:8-9; Rom. 8:29-30; 1 Pet. 1:2)

Both Calvinism and Arminism make similar cases which is because they come from the same faulty pot .
If you don't agree with Calvinsm or Arminism on these points , then fair enough. But as a reference I'm using categories to highlight differences.

#3, #2, and yes

 

[cv5]

1 Peter 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Gentiles are found in every nation, so it does not make sense for Peter to described them as scattered. Jews were the only believers where God gave them a land, which is located at Jerusalem, so yes they can be scattered.

The Jews were scattered during the Acts 8:1 account.

But okay, if you want to believe he was writing to both Jews and Gentile believers, I can understand the motivation.

Would you however agree that when Peter said in 1 Peter 4

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Do you think Paul would object to Peter describing the Body of Christ as "righteous" but "scarcely be saved"?

Would he also object to Peter teaching the Body of Christ to expect judgement to begin with them in the future?

There is no doubt Peter is addressing a Jewish audience. I think the evidence is overwhelming. However in practical terms this was to be read in Churches and the Churches had a gentile component. Are you Jewish am I Jewish? No. And this letter is read in gentile Churches everywhere today, just as it was in the early Church.

Ultimately 1 Peter is for all people in all Churches.

 

[John146]

So if God is Omniscient, does it not follow that He knew we would believe before we believed? So why do you think He needs to wait until we believe to predestinate is to all the wonderful things he’s predestined us to?

Are you using human logic to define the Scripture? Just stick with what saith the scriptures...

Man should never define the attributes of God and then place God into our definitions.

 

[OIC1965]

#3, #2, and yes

If God knew from eternity that we would believe, why is it necessary for us to believe in time before we can be predestinated, in light of the fact that Romans 8:29-30 places predestination before calling and justification?

 

[OIC1965]

Are you using human logic to define the Scripture? Just stick with what saith the scriptures...

Man should never define the attributes of God and then place God into our definitions.

I have used scripture. Romans 8:29-30. Predestination is before Call AND justification. What do you do with that fact?

 

[throughfaith]

There is no doubt Peter is addressing a Jewish audience. I think the evidence is overwhelming. However in practical terms this was to be read in Churches and the Churches had a gentile component. Are you Jewish am I Jewish? No. And this letter is read in gentile Churches everywhere today, just as it was in the early Church.

Ultimately 1 Peter is for all people in all Churches.

All of the bible is For us ,but not all the bible is to us .

 

[throughfaith]

I have used scripture. Romans 8:29-30. Predestination is before Call AND justification. What do you do with that fact?

But Paul is writing to comfort those who are already saved . That the present suffering was not worthy to be compared to what they are predestined to . THE ADOPTION .

 

[OIC1965]

I have used scripture. Romans 8:29-30. Predestination is before Call AND justification. What do you do with that fact?

What is the spiritual house Peter is referring to in 1 Peter 2? If you say only Jewish Christians, then you have Christ building two houses, not one.

 

[OIC1965]

But Paul is writing to comfort those who are already saved . That the present suffering was not worthy to be compared to what they are predestined to . THE ADOPTION .

So we call God papa before we’re children?

Those who He predestined He called and those He called, He justified.

You seek to make it those He justified He called and thoseHe called He predestined. That’s upside down you’re flipping the scripture on it’s head.

 

[throughfaith]

What is the spiritual house Peter is referring to in 1 Peter 2? If you say only Jewish Christians, then you have Christ building two houses, not one.

Using the scriptures what ' call ' do you mean ? How does that work ?

 

[John146]

If God knew from eternity that we would believe, why is it necessary for us to believe in time before we can be predestinated, in light of the fact that Romans 8:29-30 places predestination before calling and justification?

Calling and justification comes after salvation. They come after one calls upon the name of the Lord to be saved. Pretty simple.

 

[John146]

I have used scripture. Romans 8:29-30. Predestination is before Call AND justification. What do you do with that fact?

In order for God to predestine a man, He must first know the man. That's predestination. Once God knows a man as His son because the man called upon Jesus for salvation, then God predestines that man for the future adoption where the man will be conformed to the image of Jesus.