Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2

[throughfaith]

I did post the scriptue which said before.. You're being unnecessarily nit picking over my from statement which is not false anyway because that book existed at the moment of creation..



Nope.. It is saying what it says It' says

Ephesians 1: KJV
4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

He selected us before the the foundation of the world.. You may not like that for some reason but that's what it says..

' selected '? No Chosen IN HIM TO BE .... not salvation. Not to be saved . These are already saved who Paul is addressing.
Eisegesis is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text.

 

[throughfaith]

Ephesians 1:3-14
romans 8:29-30

You can not deny eternal, exhaustive foreknowledge unless you are an open theist. And open theism presents a God that is significantly lesser than the God the Bible presents.

No I'm not a Open theist. They also mess up 'predestination ', 'election ' ' Foreknowlwdge ' .
My position is that i want to start with the bible and not philosophy about the will of man or how God knows things ect . If we just stop where the bible stops we won't go into theories about God .

 

[John146]

Correct. God foreknew us and chose us in Christ and predestinated us to all the blessings that accompany salvation.

When did God know us?

 

[John146]

I am only discussing foreknowledge in my posts on this thread.. I am not talking about law doing or works salvation.. Two different topics..

Lol, yes me too. My question is, when dies God know someone as a son? According to Galatians 4 it is the point in time when one believes upon the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[John146]

Ephesians 1: KJV
4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"

He selected us before the the foundation of the world.. You may not like that for some reason but that's what it says..

That’s not what the passage says. You forgot the context of the passage which is in verse 3, the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. The word “according“ points back to verse 3. What has God chosen us in Christ? The spiritual blessings in the heavenly places. That choice God made before the foundation of the world was that the spiritual blessings in the heavenly places would be given in Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So you think the spiritual temple Peter is talking about of which Jesus is the chief cornerstone is literally in Jerusalem? And does not include any Christians outside of Zion

How is the a spiritual house which Peter’s recipients are, how is it being built in Zion when they’re scattered through Pontus, Asia, Bythinia, etc

No, the stone in Zion is Christ and the spiritual house is His church, which is all who believe, whether Jew or Gentile.

There are not two classes of Christians. The Bible is clear on this

Amen, and the jews rejected the stone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which is my point about how Calvimism has permeated into most Traditions and denomination s . Most Christians have been indoctrinated by Calvinsm even if its indirectly.

your hate against calvinism is disturbing, it has again clouded your mind.

calvinism is but on of many So called reformed theologies. There are far more dangerous theologies out there, why the war against calvinism in CC this past year just boggles my mind,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Eph 1 is about all those that are in him . Paul is talking to saved people . It doesn't say " chosen to BE in him " does it ? The ' God knew me and chose me before I existed is gnosctism ( calvinism.

Yep he is

they Became in him according to verse 13 and 14. (By hearing and believing) and all of this was predestined. because It as the will of God that whoever sees and believes will have eternal life, they heard the word, and had faith I. It, and because of that we’re adopted as sons and given the seal of the spirit, not by works, but by grace through faith,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No I'm not a Open theist. They also mess up 'predestination ', 'election ' ' Foreknowlwdge ' .
My position is that i want to start with the bible and not philosophy about the will of man or how God knows things ect . If we just stop where the bible stops we won't go into theories about God .

If I am honest,

to me you, or those you learn from, start at calvinism, then walk backwards to see how you can defeat it, because almost every post you make, every point you make is based on some calvinist perspective.

its like others here who are trying to defeat james from a catholic perspective, instead of reading James for what he really says, they write it off as James only spoke to jews not gentiles. Then claiming they just want to interpret the word not what people say.

yet they are denying thenword, and putting their own spin on it,

 

[throughfaith]

your hate against calvinism is disturbing, it has again clouded your mind.

calvinism is but on of many So called reformed theologies. There are far more dangerous theologies out there, why the war against calvinism in CC this past year just boggles my mind,

I notice folks end up attacking me personally and yet I'm passionate against false doctrine . As believers we should be able to attack what we see as false doctrines without being personal.

 

[throughfaith]

Yep he is

they Became in him according to verse 13 and 14. (By hearing and believing) and all of this was predestined. because It as the will of God that whoever sees and believes will have eternal life, they heard the word, and had faith I. It, and because of that we’re adopted as sons and given the seal of the spirit, not by works, but by grace through faith,

So are you simply saying God has always planned that anyone who believes will be saved ? Is that all your saying ? Your not saying God causes them to believe ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I notice folks end up attacking me personally and yet I'm passionate against false doctrine . As believers we should be able to attack what we see as false doctrines without being personal.

My issue is you see everything through a calvinistic view, it’s like those fighting against osas, they are not fighting against eternal security per say but against calvinism, it’s the old Arminius vs calvin debate
since they do that you can not have any meaningful discussion with them, because they will not listen to you, they look for key words, and say, yep, this is what you believe (even though you do not) it leads to frustration, anger Na e calling, and all sorts of things which makes the church look bad,,

you should Take your passion and be fighting false gospels. Instead of fighting against our brothers and sisters, whether you or those others like you like it or not, they believe in salvation by grace through faith just like you and I, they just think we arrive at faith differently

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So are you simply saying God has always planned that anyone who believes will be saved ? Is that all your saying ? Your not saying God causes them to believe ?

Show me one place where I even hinted at any fact that God caused anyone to believe

this is what I mean, you are so angry and out to destroy double predestination you can not even hear what I and others are saying,

 

[throughfaith]

If I am honest,

to me you, or those you learn from, start at calvinism, then walk backwards to see how you can defeat it, because almost every post you make, every point you make is based on some calvinist perspective.

its like others here who are trying to defeat james from a catholic perspective, instead of reading James for what he really says, they write it off as James only spoke to jews not gentiles. Then claiming they just want to interpret the word not what people say.

yet they are denying thenword, and putting their own spin on it,

Or we are trying to state what the bible actually says as opposed to what Calvinism / Arminism teaches . There is no way around this issue without highlighting the difference . If I'm talking to Catholics, Jws , Mormons ect we have to mention what they believe also .

 

[OIC1965]

I guess what you are saying is that Israel is "spiritual"? That we in the Body of Christ are the spiritual Israel?

No. I’m saying that the spiritual house Peter is talking about in chapter two is both Jews and Gentiles, the church.

 

[throughfaith]

Show me one place where I even hinted at any fact that God caused anyone to believe

this is what I mean, you are so angry and out to destroy double predestination you can not even hear what I and others are saying,

I've not mentioned double predestination. I'm arguing for what the bible says . Categories are difficult to avoid . As Arminism and Calvinism have a specific worldview . We use that as a reference in which we can base a discussion on .

 

[throughfaith]

Show me one place where I even hinted at any fact that God caused anyone to believe

this is what I mean, you are so angry and out to destroy double predestination you can not even hear what I and others are saying,

So what's the issue . God s choosing after we believe is that those in Christ are guaranteed future Adoption as Rom 8.23 and every verse on predestination clearly SAYS . You are arguing that God has predestined people to BE saved . Is this the case ?

 

[throughfaith]

No. I’m saying that the spiritual house Peter is talking about in chapter two is both Jews and Gentiles, the church.

1cor 10 .32
Give no offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God,

 

[OIC1965]

In many cases the issue with what is termed double predestination is that those who take issue believe it necessarily implies God leads the non-elect, the reprobate dead in their sins, to sin. When it must be a converse association of God's foreknowledge and will as first pertains to the elect among us who are predestined for his grace and salvific response.
Some do believe that because of what is penned in the works of Isaiah 45.
However, predestination of the elect must necessarily be viewed as having a converse, or parallel, to itself if one first accepts divine election or predestination as a matter of fact in their faith.

God does not have to be seen as one who leads the reprobate, sinner, to commit sin. Rather, one is able to realize if God predestines whom he will save, it is God who has selected that one meant to enter his grace. While God does not actively work to cause the sinner to sin further, what is communicated in the belief of predestined salvation is that God, having predetermined one to be saved, has conversely predetermined whom shall not be. And thus those ones are left to their fallen human nature to suffer the consequence that awaits according to God's plan.

Thus in my lay observation, therein is the basic formulary of the so called Reformed doctrine. That I might add is substantiated by far more learned than myself in different confessions of faith within the Reformed paradox and over hundreds of years.


I am not arrogant enough to state anything that would then have to pertain to every Christian on the planet. That is why I never once said we are elected because of our own worthiness.
Why would that come then to your mind?

Yes, I understand the Reformed position. I read a lot of Puritans, have listened to Pink and others, and I listen to Sproul, Bauchum, Durbin,White, etc. I don’t agree with everything, but find some of what they say edifying.

The worthy statement was in reply to what you wrote, second paragraph, first sentence.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Or we are trying to state what the bible actually says as opposed to what Calvinism / Arminism teaches . There is no way around this issue without highlighting the difference . If I'm talking to Catholics, Jws , Mormons ect we have to mention what they believe also .

That’s fine until you start making every post you make about calvin and all your thinking comes from a calvin or anti calvin viewpoint,