No argument there from me. But don't discount MacArthur. He is no dunce.
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1 Peter 1:2
- Thread starter OIC1965
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Didn't verse 6 mention Zion? Why do you think Gentile believers are included in the term Zion?
For example Zechariah 8 also use the term Zion and spell that out.
2 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; I was jealous for Zion with great jealousy, and I was jealous for her with great fury.
3 Thus saith the Lord; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the Lord of hosts the holy mountain.
If you reach the last verse of Zechariah 8, where gentiles of all nations are mentioned as following a Jew, you won't think Zion included gentile believers.
Also compare 1 Peter 2:10 with Hosea 1:6-9.
My own opinion though is that the letter is ultimately written to both Jews and Gentiles.
The list given in verse one is a list of Churches. There is no possible way that any of these Churches had an exclusively Jewish congregation.
God has foreknowledge because he is Omniscient. He is the same God yesterday, today and forever. The elect according to 1st Peter refers to the plan of Salvation written of in the old testament (OT). God's grace came first. And then he came to this world to deliver a new covenant that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish in their sins, dying the second death as property of the antithesis of our God, but have immortal life through the gift of grace that is salvation.
Whosoever, is a word that insures not a select group of persons were deemed worthy of saving before anything was created at all. Though there are some teachings that like to impart that. Which necessarily means there are a select group predestined, pre-made, to die in their sins and suffer Hell. And all that by the determination of their creator.
No, whosoever means exactly that. To those whom the truth resonates, the words of God calling them home to the source from which their soul sprang. That can be anyone. Salvation isn't a elitist club. It is a grace filled irrevocable gift.
Whosoever, is a word that insures not a select group of persons were deemed worthy of saving before anything was created at all. Though there are some teachings that like to impart that. Which necessarily means there are a select group predestined, pre-made, to die in their sins and suffer Hell. And all that by the determination of their creator.
No, whosoever means exactly that. To those whom the truth resonates, the words of God calling them home to the source from which their soul sprang. That can be anyone. Salvation isn't a elitist club. It is a grace filled irrevocable gift.
So you think the spiritual temple Peter is talking about of which Jesus is the chief cornerstone is literally in Jerusalem? And does not include any Christians outside of Zion
How is the a spiritual house which Peter’s recipients are, how is it being built in Zion when they’re scattered through Pontus, Asia, Bythinia, etc
No, the stone in Zion is Christ and the spiritual house is His church, which is all who believe, whether Jew or Gentile.
There are not two classes of Christians. The Bible is clear on this
Not everyone who believes in election and predestination believes in double predestination, ie lost predestined to hell. The majority actually don’t hold that at all
And no Christian would teach we are elected because of our own worthiness. Only Christ is worthy. We are made acceptable in Him. He is our only righteousness
Later than before the foundation of the world? ((Ephesians 1:4)? Then I think I have something.
In many cases the issue with what is termed double predestination is that those who take issue believe it necessarily implies God leads the non-elect, the reprobate dead in their sins, to sin. When it must be a converse association of God's foreknowledge and will as first pertains to the elect among us who are predestined for his grace and salvific response.
Some do believe that because of what is penned in the works of Isaiah 45.
However, predestination of the elect must necessarily be viewed as having a converse, or parallel, to itself if one first accepts divine election or predestination as a matter of fact in their faith.
God does not have to be seen as one who leads the reprobate, sinner, to commit sin. Rather, one is able to realize if God predestines whom he will save, it is God who has selected that one meant to enter his grace. While God does not actively work to cause the sinner to sin further, what is communicated in the belief of predestined salvation is that God, having predetermined one to be saved, has conversely predetermined whom shall not be. And thus those ones are left to their fallen human nature to suffer the consequence that awaits according to God's plan.
Thus in my lay observation, therein is the basic formulary of the so called Reformed doctrine. That I might add is substantiated by far more learned than myself in different confessions of faith within the Reformed paradox and over hundreds of years.
I am not arrogant enough to state anything that would then have to pertain to every Christian on the planet. That is why I never once said we are elected because of our own worthiness.
Why would that come then to your mind?
1 Peter 1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
Gentiles are found in every nation, so it does not make sense for Peter to described them as scattered. Jews were the only believers where God gave them a land, which is located at Jerusalem, so yes they can be scattered.
The Jews were scattered during the Acts 8:1 account.
But okay, if you want to believe he was writing to both Jews and Gentile believers, I can understand the motivation.
Would you however agree that when Peter said in 1 Peter 4
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Do you think Paul would object to Peter describing the Body of Christ as "righteous" but "scarcely be saved"?
Would he also object to Peter teaching the Body of Christ to expect judgement to begin with them in the future?
I guess what you are saying is that Israel is "spiritual"? That we in the Body of Christ are the spiritual Israel?
I did post the scriptue which said before.. You're being unnecessarily nit picking over my from statement which is not false anyway because that book existed at the moment of creation..
Nope.. It is saying what it says It' says
Ephesians 1: KJV
4 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:"
He selected us before the the foundation of the world.. You may not like that for some reason but that's what it says..
I am only discussing foreknowledge in my posts on this thread.. I am not talking about law doing or works salvation.. Two different topics..
When are you in Him ? before or after you exist. ?
Especially in light of eph 2
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Notice we are not in Christ before we exist . eph 2
11¶Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
I am not talking about when i am in Him.. That's your words.. I am taking about Gods foreknowledge of people who will and will not be saved and when God foreknew that some would be saved and others not..
You are arguing about an entirely different topic.. Of course the time we become into a state of salvation is when we believe the Gospel,,, BUT i have not been talking about when a person becomes saved.. I am talking about when God foreknow who would be conformed to the image of the Son..
John146 seems to be debating the Law with me another topic not related to Gods foreknowledge of those who will be with Him in eternity..
Which is my point about how Calvimism has permeated into most Traditions and denomination s . Most Christians have been indoctrinated by Calvinsm even if its indirectly.
I think John is pointing out when God 'knows ' us as sons . My contention is that where is these ideas coming from . I don't believe anyone can arrive at these 'calvinstic 'conclusions from reading the bible . Calvinism cannot be arrived at from the bible . People learn the theology before they are grounded in the scriptures.
Eph 1 is about all those that are in him . Paul is talking to saved people . It doesn't say " chosen to BE in him " does it ? The ' God knew me and chose me before I existed is gnosctism ( calvinism.
Gods foreknowledge is when you believe . From God's perspective we are only known as sons in Christ . its not about God knowing us before we were in Christ.