Israel

[ForestGreenCook]

Everyone from Jacob is not of Israel...see Esau.

Jacob/Israel is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and person, and nation, Rev 5:9

 

[Keras]

Isn't Israel the 'wife 'of God ? Not the bride of Christ

That idea is false teaching, made to suit another agenda.
There is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, +

 

[pottersclay]

What is your opinion as to why God changed Jacob's name to be henceforth called Israel? Gen 33:28.

Jacob was known as a trickster a con artist if you will.
God changed it to show what he can do no matter what manner of man or woman you are.
Look at the calling of Gideon a valiant worrior .......was he at first?
We are all going to have a name change.

 

[pottersclay]

That is Genesis 32:28: And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

So the meaning is given within the verse. Israel would be a prince before God and men. As applied to the nation, Israel would be the dominant nation on earth after the Second Coming of Christ, and after Israel has been redeemed and restored.

But Jacob prevailed only because the pre-incarnate Christ allowed him to prevail, but then He put his hip out of joint (to show that Jacob actually wrestled with God, not just a man or an angel).

The literal meaning Israel (Hebrew Yis.ra.el) has been variously interpreted, and actually is rather confused and confusing.

1. Strong's says it means "God strives", which is not really true.

2. Brown-Driver-Briggs says "El persisteth" or "El persevereth" or "Let El persist" (El meaning God). Which again does not fit.

3. Another interpretation is "God prevails" but that contradicts the verse itself, just as "God strives" contradicts that incident.

4. Then we have another interpretation "He will rule as God" which again is not biblical since no man can rule as God.

5. Then we have Gesenius saying it means "Contender" or "Solider of God" (which again does not fit the verse).

Therefore we should stick with what the verse actually says.

But Jacob prevailed only because the pre-incarnate Christ allowed him to prevail, but then He put his hip out of joint (to show that Jacob actually wrestled with God, not just a man or an angel).

not quite......the hurting of the hip was to show that Israel would prevail through much affliction
Which is the truth throughout the history of Israel.☺☺

 

[pottersclay]

Change of name represents a change of identity in the Bible, and a spiritual transformation into people of God.
Per example:

Sarai + letter He (breath, Spirit) ---------->Sarah (heir of promise)
Abram + letter He (breath, Spirit)---------->Abraham (heir of promise)
Saul ("asked for", root related to "sheol", Saul was a grievous king)---------->Paul ("small" alluding to humility; not an evil person in power anymore seeking to kill, but an heir of promise)


Zechariah 13:9 ...and will try them as gold is tried:...

I think this is represented by the picture of Jacob's wrestling, this event pictures trial intended by God to try and prove the believers, and they overcome.

Revelation 2:17 ...To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

New identity aka new spirit is given to the overcomers, that only that man can know who receives it. Like so:

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?...

You go saint☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️☺️😂😂😂😂😂😂

 

[throughfaith]

That idea is false teaching, made to suit another agenda.
There is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, +[/QUOTE




10.3. Israel Married to Jehovah


The nation Israel is unlikely to be the Lamb’s bride because she has already been wed. God the Father is Israel’s husband:
“Return, O backsliding children,” says the Lord; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion.” (Jer. Jer. 3:14) [emphasis added]
“They say, ‘If a man divorces his wife, and she goes from him and becomes another man’s, may he return to her again?’ Would not that land be greatly polluted? But you have played the harlot with many lovers; yet return to Me,” says the Lord. (Jer. Jer. 3:1) [emphasis added]
Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also. (Jer. Jer. 3:8)
Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. (Jer. Jer. 31:31-33)
Even though Israel proved to be an unfaithful wife which God put away by divorce, He promises to remain faithful to her in His relationship as husband. Moreover, in order to divorce her, she had to first be married.
Bring charges against your mother, bring charges; For she is not My wife, nor am I her Husband! Let her put away her harlotries from her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts . . . (Hos. Hos. 2:2)
She will chase her lovers, but not overtake them; yes, she will seek them, but not find them. Then she will say, ‘I will go and return to my first husband, for then it was better for me than now.’ (Hos. Hos. 2:7)
As unfaithful as Israel has been, God promises to stand by her. Their husband-wife relationship will be reestablished:
“And it shall be, in that day,” says the Lord, “That you will call Me ‘My Husband,’ And no longer call Me ‘My Master.’ ” (Hos. Hos. 2:16)
I will betroth you to Me forever; yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and justice, in lovingkindness and mercy; I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness, and you shall know the Lord. (Hos. Hos. 2:19-20)

 

[throughfaith]

That idea is false teaching, made to suit another agenda.
There is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, +

What's the agenda?

 

[throughfaith]

That idea is false teaching, made to suit another agenda.
There is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, +

1cor 10.32
Give no offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God,
1) Jews
2) Gentiles
3)Church of God

 

[Keras]

What's the agenda?

The doctrine of Two people, Two Promises. Ethnic Israel and the Christian Church.
All tied into the belief of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, while the Jews pass thru the Great Trib.

All totally unscriptural and will never happen.

 

[Guojing]

The doctrine of Two people, Two Promises. Ethnic Israel and the Christian Church.
All tied into the belief of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, while the Jews pass thru the Great Trib.

All totally unscriptural and will never happen.

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[John146]

Jacob/Israel is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and person, and nation, Rev 5:9

You may have something if that passage actually contained the word Israel, but it does not. You’re making things up to fit your beliefs.

 

[Nehemiah6]

not quite......the hurting of the hip was to show that Israel would prevail through much affliction
Which is the truth throughout the history of Israel

Once again, it was only because God ALLOWED Israel to prevail. Not for their sakes but for the integrity of His covenant with Abraham. God was prepared to wipe out Israel altogether on several occasions, but because Moses (and others) interceded for Israel, the Israelites survived. But they brought destruction on themselves several times.

What should truly amaze us is that Christ allowed Jacob to even wrestle with Him, and then allowed him to prevail instead of killing him. There was nothing in Jacob to obtain such grace.

 

[garee]

What is your opinion as to why God changed Jacob's name to be henceforth called Israel? Gen 33:28.

The word Israel which means he who wrestles with flesh and blood the things seen. And over comes because he has the the born again Spirit working in. Previously identified by the word Jacob .No strength from God working in him, a deceiver. Natural unconverted mankind

Genesis 32:28
And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Not all Israel is born again Israel just as in the same way a Jew is not one outwardly according to the flesh but born again inwardly according to the working of the Holy Spirit.

He propmised the born again Israel that he would rename his bride. A name that would represent all the nations of the world

Isaiah 62 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name. Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the Lord, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God

The Holy Spirit brought that promise to pass in the book of Acts, Christian. A more befitting name for all the nations of the world . A name that literal means residents of the Holy City of Christ the heavenly jeusruaselm. Named after her Husband and founder Christ.

Re alignment theology not replacement the hope of some.

 

[throughfaith]

The doctrine of Two people, Two Promises. Ethnic Israel and the Christian Church.
All tied into the belief of a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, while the Jews pass thru the Great Trib.

All totally unscriptural and will never happen.

Not a fan of the 'doctrine this and that '. Just trying to understand the bible and what it says .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Jacob was known as a trickster a con artist if you will.
God changed it to show what he can do no matter what manner of man or woman you are.
Look at the calling of Gideon a valiant worrior .......was he at first?
We are all going to have a name change.

What is your interpretation of Rom 9? Especially verse 11? Was not God's purpose, in choosing Jacob, to show that whom God elects might stand?

Rom 11:26, And so "all Israel" shall be saved, (this references Jacob whose name is Israel, because we know that all of the nation of Israel will not be saved) as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob/Israel

There is a nation of Israel, and there is Jacob who is called Israel, that is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You may have something if that passage actually contained the word Israel, but it does not. You’re making things up to fit your beliefs.

Rom 11:26, And all Israel (Jacob) shall be saved, (the scriptures do not uphold that all of the nation of Israel will be saved) as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the deliverer, and he shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob/Israel. Rom 9:11, Jacob, whose name was changed to be called Israel, is representative of God's elect, who are the recipetance of Rev 5:9.

 

[John146]

Rom 11:26, And all Israel (Jacob) shall be saved, (the scriptures do not uphold that all of the nation of Israel will be saved) as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the deliverer, and he shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob/Israel. Rom 9:11, Jacob, whose name was changed to be called Israel, is representative of God's elect, who are the recipetance of Rev 5:9.

Romans 11:26 is a reference to the tribulation Jewish remnant. The deliverer will come out of Sion and turn Israel back to their Messiah. The body of Christ is not Israel.

 

[John146]

What is your interpretation of Rom 9? Especially verse 11? Was not God's purpose, in choosing Jacob, to show that whom God elects might stand?

Rom 11:26, And so "all Israel" shall be saved, (this references Jacob whose name is Israel, because we know that all of the nation of Israel will not be saved) as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob/Israel

There is a nation of Israel, and there is Jacob who is called Israel, that is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation, Rev 5:9.

The election was for the seed line, not personal salvation.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Romans 11:26 is a reference to the tribulation Jewish remnant. The deliverer will come out of Sion and turn Israel back to their Messiah. The body of Christ is not Israel.

There is no tribulation Jewish remnant. Christ's kingdom has already come, and has suffered tribulation from the very beginning of the church. The remnant has reference to those children of God to whom the Holy Spirit has revealed the truths contained in Jesus's doctrine.

Your theory will not harmonize with all of the scriptures.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

The election was for the seed line, not personal salvation.

God has chosen (elected) us, and predestined us, to be adopted as his children by Jesus Christ, and the final phase of the adoption will be when Jesus returns to gather his elect from one end of the earth to the other, and take them home. That is a very personal salvation.