Is Acts 2.38 the plan of salvation ?

[throughfaith]

Which

i never said it was, do you have a comprehension issue also?


it was not commanded that was to the jews either, it does not say repent and be baptized to receive remissiom of sin, why would you think it does, if one studies in the Greek, they would see that, water baptism has never gotten one person remission of sin,

what are we before we come to Christ? gods enemy right? What do we think of God, what do we think of ourselves? What do we think of our sin issue and the condemnation we earn from that sin issue?

you will NEVER come to faith with that belief,


NO ONE will come to faith in Christ, unless they first “change your mind” repent. Which takes God working in you to change your view, but changing your view MUST be done

a belief without repentance is mere belief, that never saved anyone,

which english translation would you say is the closest to the greek ? what i mean is if it is the case that Peter is saying to Israel they need to1) repent ( because of the specific message given to THEM )
2) 38¶ and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3) , and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

you could pick any English translated and you would struggle not to come away with the idea that the order is
1) repent
2) be baptised FOR the remission of sins
3) then after you recieve the Holy Spirit .
Hence why we have so much confusion out there with different groups taking the order but missing the context.
Famously David Pawson uses Acts 2.38 as the order for the normal Christian birth . Namely 1 ) repent
2) Believe
3) baptise
4) recieve.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What distinction do you make between John the baptist message to repent and be baptised and Peters message to repent and be baptised ?

Neither of them told people to be baptized in order to receive remission of sin. They both taught on account of your remission of sin. Be baptized

Ie repent (come to faith) and on account if receiving remission if sin be baptized

John spoke of the coming media prepaid the way

peter spoke of The crucified messiah who paved the way

John spoke To jews And told them to repent so they could see christ

Peter spoke to jews and told them to repent to receive jesus

Johns message was for jews only

Peters message is applicable to us all

 

[throughfaith]

Neither of them told people to be baptized in order to receive remission of sin. They both taught on account of your remission of sin. Be baptized

Ie repent (come to faith) and on account if receiving remission if sin be baptized

John spoke of the coming media prepaid the way

peter spoke of The crucified messiah who paved the way

John spoke To jews And told them to repent so they could see christ

Peter spoke to jews and told them to repent to receive jesus

Johns message was for jews only

Peters message is applicable to us all

Why has no translation put it that way?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Which
which english translation would you say is the closest to the greek ? what i mean is if it is the case that Peter is saying to Israel they need to1) repent ( because of the specific message given to THEM )
2) 38¶ and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
3) , and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

you could pick any English translated and you would struggle not to come away with the idea that the order is
1) repent
2) be baptised FOR the remission of sins
3) then after you recieve the Holy Spirit .
Hence why we have so much confusion out there with different groups taking the order but missing the context.
Famously David Pawson uses Acts 2.38 as the order for the normal Christian birth . Namely 1 ) repent
2) Believe
3) baptise
4) recieve.

I know this is long. Please bear with me there is no other way to explain it

The Greek is different. Actually the old English versions (Like the original king James) got it closest when they added the word “ye” ie repent ye (plural) and let every one of you (singular)

To break it down We have two types of language being used

2nd person plural

3rd person singular

2nd person is you. I e spoken to everyone

3rd person is he she. Ie spoken time only select individuals

so let’s study acts 2: 38

2nd person plural phrase

Repent (verb second person plural)

Ye (subject second person plural)

Shall receive gift if the spirit (direct object if the verb To repent

3rd person singular

Let every one if you (subject 3rd person singular)

Be baptized (verb second person plural)
Unto/for remission if sin (modifying phrase

To conclude

The gift if the Holy Spirit has nothing to do with being baptized It is recieved because the people repented

Be baptized. Not a command to all like repent but directed to certain individuals.


Unto/for remission if sin Is it in order to receive remission if sin or is it because you have recieved Remission if sin (ie. It answers the question of who are commanded to be baptized )

Unto/ for. In the Greek (eis) as in English can be used multiple ways

Ie.
I phoned the doctor for (to receive) medicine
I phoned the doctor for (in regards of (my child)
I phoned the doctor for (on account of ) my sickness

Using the passage as reasoning. And other aspects of scripture

1 remission if sin answers who peter is talking to (be baptized on account if your remission if sin)

2. Remission of sin is based on faith not on being immersed in water so it does
Not fit peter would contradict scripture

In a nutshell

Peter told everyone to repent and they will receive the gift of the spirit. And told those who believed (based on repentance) to be baptized on account they had recieved remission of sin

If we read on it proves my point as it says. And those who believed (Recieved the word) were baptized

we are saved by faith not by baptism And that goes for jews as well as gentiles

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why has no translation put it that way?

You tell me. And then show me a perfect translation that got everything right

Let me ask you do you believe jews had to be baptized in water to receive Remission of sin? If so why do that have to do works if righteousness to be saved and we are saved by grace no works

 

[throughfaith]

You tell me. And then show me a perfect translation that got everything right

Let me ask you do you believe jews had to be baptized in water to receive Remission of sin? If so why do that have to do works if righteousness to be saved and we are saved by grace no works

No they were baptised to identify with John the baptist message to show the proper basis for the remission of sin was the one who would come after. Jesus Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No they were baptised to identify with John the baptist message to show the proper basis for the remission of sin was the one who would come after. Jesus Christ.

Where do you get this from? I see that no place in the passage

Remember. John called the Pharisees our demanding proof they had received remission if sin before he would baptism them

 

[throughfaith]

Where do you get this from? I see that no place in the passage

Remember. John called the Pharisees our demanding proof they had received remission if sin before he would baptism them

The pharisees refused Johns baptism as they felt it was not necessary for them . The ones that did where showing they were serious about their repentance.
Luke 7 .
24¶And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
25But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts.
26But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.
27This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
28For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
29¶And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

 

[throughfaith]

You tell me. And then show me a perfect translation that got everything right

Let me ask you do you believe jews had to be baptized in water to receive Remission of sin? If so why do that have to do works if righteousness to be saved and we are saved by grace no works

Heres my point.
NLT
Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The pharisees refused Johns baptism as they felt it was not necessary for them . The ones that did where showing they were serious about their repentance.
Luke 7 .
24¶And when the messengers of John were departed, he began to speak unto the people concerning John, What went ye out into the wilderness for to see? A reed shaken with the wind?
25But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they which are gorgeously apparelled, and live delicately, are in kings' courts.
26But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and much more than a prophet.
27This is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
28For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.
29¶And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Matthew 3:7–8 (NKJV): But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

oh and if you think they did not come to be baptized. Luke answers this question

Luke 3:7–8 (NKJV): Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

as you can see. This is what I said.

 

[throughfaith]

Matthew 3:7–8 (NKJV): But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

oh and if you think they did not come to be baptized. Luke answers this question

Luke 3:7–8 (NKJV): Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

as you can see. This is what I said.

29¶And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Which is it ? looks like they are rejecting here .? Which is understandable for those that assumed they were right with God . But those that were baptised by John ( which was from heaven ) were showing otherwise. Which is the whole point .

 

[throughfaith]

Matthew 3:7–8 (NKJV): But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

oh and if you think they did not come to be baptized. Luke answers this question

Luke 3:7–8 (NKJV): Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

as you can see. This is what I said.

Luke 7.30 But the Pharisees and experts in religious law rejected God’s plan for them, for they had refused John’s baptism.Nlt

 

[throughfaith]

Matthew 3:7–8 (NKJV): But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

oh and if you think they did not come to be baptized. Luke answers this question

Luke 3:7–8 (NKJV): Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

as you can see. This is what I said.

The Pharisees and Sadducees weren't coming to be baptized, they were being brought along to check out what John was up to

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Heres my point.
NLT
Peter replied, “Each of you must repent of your sins and turn to God, and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. Then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit

I used the Greek
can you tell
Me where this interpretation sounds anything like what the Greek Says?

I hope your not using that translation by the way

 

[throughfaith]

Matthew 3:7–8 (NKJV): But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

oh and if you think they did not come to be baptized. Luke answers this question

Luke 3:7–8 (NKJV): Then he said to the multitudes that came out to be baptized by him, “Brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 8 Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance,

as you can see. This is what I said.

The KJV states that they came to his (John's) baptism, most likely due to curiosity. In verse 11, John does say that "I indeed baptize you with water..." but Luke 3:16 gives more detail and says "John answered saying unto them all, 'I indeed baptize you with water...'". This indicates he spoke to the entire crowd those who came to be baptized as well as on-lookers.

So, the context supports Luke 7:30; they came but were not baptized.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

29¶And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Which is it ? looks like they are rejecting here .? Which is understandable for those that assumed they were right with God . But those that were baptised by John ( which was from heaven ) were showing otherwise. Which is the whole point .

John called the to bear fruits of repentance. They never believed. That’s why John refused to baptize them and called them a brood if vipers

 

[throughfaith]

I used the Greek
can you tell
Me where this interpretation sounds anything like what the Greek Says?

I hope your not using that translation by the way

I only use the Nlt to demonstrate the issue in which I feel its better to go with the context. I do not use the NLT in any sense without realising its a paraphrase.

 

[throughfaith]

John called the to bear fruits of repentance. They never believed. That’s why John refused to baptize them and called them a brood if vipers

That's eiesigesis. Luke 7.30 actually supports what I'm saying. They rejected even though they came to inspect.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Luke 7.30 But the Pharisees and experts in religious law rejected God’s plan for them, for they had refused John’s baptism.Nlt

Yet luk 7 said they came to be baptized and John called them out
so which is it?
That they refused because God called them out (refused To repent ).
Or they just refused?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I only use the Nlt to demonstrate the issue in which I feel its better to go with the context. I do not use the NLT in any sense without realising its a paraphrase.

Context aside

Can you please show where in the Greek it says peter told anyone to be baptized to receive the spirit and remission of sin?