yeah but that would be going beyond what the verses say ..In another verse it says we are in Christ and He will never leave us .
"Forsake not the assembling of yourselves together" - Heb. 10:25
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L
lenna
Guest
maybe if you had an actual grip on the gospels and how they portray both God and Jesus? you know, instead of sayaing they are not for us because Jesus had not died yet?
your view is more than a little skewed because of your interpretations rather than just sticking to the actual text
how is what I stated adding to the text? it is actually you who is adding by putting limitations so specific that it creates another Jesus who only sticks around to give someone 'what for'. that, is adding to the text. what is actually being said is that one person alone cannot represent Jesus and more than one are called for so as not to add personal remarks...like you do
scripture also calls for witnesses besides the invisible God and Jesus who is no longer on earth and the Holy Spirit who is also invisible
this is why we have elders and so on. this is why a pastor is not god on earth and so on. this is why you cannot state categorically that what you personally believe is how the rest of us should pattern our faith. we would be off course if we did at any rate, and only listening to you and not Jesus apparently
provide scripture that indicates there is no gathering of believers and God indicates we never ere or interpret according to our own whims or whatever suits us because of our lifestyle
it is my observation that those who wish to leave out what Jesus states in the gospels and what James states concerning Christians sinning and the need to repent (not a 4 letter word) find Jesus too strict and James a legalist
L
lenna
Guest
since we are not sure who actually authored Hebrews, maybe we should also discount that book
it does speak of loosing salvation which many do not believe anyway
ps...don't get stuck on 'loosing salvation'. that is covered in many other threads and not a rabbit trail gateway I have offered to you
You don't leave out what Jesus states . You understand what he says . And who he is saying it to , why he's saying it .
The context is
As it is written the authority or name of God. The authority of faith the power of His labor of love
The father and Son working together in perfect harmony as one authority .Mankind, husband and wife and a Child . A strand of three is not easily broken
Ecclesiastes 4:12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken
An example using Peter in Mathew 16. The it that the gates of hell could never prevail against, the gospel as it is written
The passage about the seven seals is in Revelation 5, while the passage about not adding or subtracting is in Revelation 22. There is no direct connection, and they are definitely not talking about the same book.
The same author of all the chapters we call books .One book of the law. No theories of men .
Can't lose eternal things if a person never had one. They have no eternal experience . Our first love, hearing God and believing Him not seen .
Some crucify him over, over, and over with their dead faithless religious works they had a taste and said "no way Jose". Exposing Jesus to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough . And a thousand is not to many them that have no eternal faith. Hebrews informs us its the better things that accompany salvation . the promise he will not forget the good works we offer working with him toward the authority of His name
Hebrews 6: 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
If he began the good work of salvation in us he will finish the gospel work
The two or three that gather together by the power of God not seen . A explanation of the verse. The context as it is written. The power of Christ's faith that works in us making the load lighter.. The word it denotes the unseen power . it is not of these earthen bodies of death .
2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
Same seals same one book the Bible. Not adding or subtracting from the book of prophecy .The declared word of God preached to mankind. Chapter 22 still the last chapter.
Need more that he revealed ? Just wonder.
Revelation 22;19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
L
lenna
Guest
interesting since you state the gospels don't apply to us
I understand what He says; I don't tell others to turn away as you do
25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?” John 11: 25-26
Jesus said this too, so does it only apply to Martha? or do you also believe it? if you do, then what you say holds no water. seems Jesus in the gospels is relevant unlike your belief we do not learn from them. you seem to present two different Christs
again, Jesus said where 2 or 3 are gathered but you explain that by saying it only applies to who He said it to. forget about any gathering of believers then, cause Jesus only shows up when there is a problem
you present 'another Jesus'. believing Christ, by the Holy Spirit, is present when believers gather together is neither overly spiritual and certainly not legalistic
if legalistic is showing up anywhere, it would be in your interpretation of Jesus not available as per what MOST believers understand
you don't seem able to understand this but of course your entire view of the gospels is challenged by the rest of the NT and OT
I do not believe that was the point of the poster.
His point is what is the particular context of that particular passage (and to whom was Jesus speaking)? Not that other passages don't speak of His being with us and in us.
L
lenna
Guest
I do not believe that was the point of the poster.
His point is what is the particular context of that particular passage (and to whom was Jesus speaking)? Not that other passages don't speak of His being with us and in us.
are you his lawyer?
ps...I don't need an interpreter.
lets keep that in context please
L
lenna
Guest
maybe it's time to get back to the thought behind the original op
throughfaith seemed to think the verse in question, Hebrews 10:25, is also used to guilt trip people into tithing. that opens up a whole other conversation
1. does that verse mention tithing? no it does not so why worry about it and why introduce it? for the sake of clarity, lets just stick to the facts ma'am/sir. just the facts. no tithing mentioned. for that matter, is tithing a NT teaching?
2. do we make doctrine out of one verse? well I guess you do if it suits your personal beliefs or 'agenda'
3. does Jesus ever say anywhere not to gather in His name? not that I have seen, so why use this verse as a proof text or verse to say pastors lay guilt trips on people by using it?
for the sake of time, what is the intent of the NT? does Hebrews 10:25 sum it up?
and again, to be told if you quote it with the intent of 'forcing people' into church you are legalistic but if you actually think that Jesus' spirit or the Holy Spirit is with you while you gather, you are hyper spiritual is contradictory to say the least, so perhaps tf is not sure which it is himself
it certainly is not about tithing though
throughfaith seemed to think the verse in question, Hebrews 10:25, is also used to guilt trip people into tithing. that opens up a whole other conversation
1. does that verse mention tithing? no it does not so why worry about it and why introduce it? for the sake of clarity, lets just stick to the facts ma'am/sir. just the facts. no tithing mentioned. for that matter, is tithing a NT teaching?
2. do we make doctrine out of one verse? well I guess you do if it suits your personal beliefs or 'agenda'
3. does Jesus ever say anywhere not to gather in His name? not that I have seen, so why use this verse as a proof text or verse to say pastors lay guilt trips on people by using it?
for the sake of time, what is the intent of the NT? does Hebrews 10:25 sum it up?
and again, to be told if you quote it with the intent of 'forcing people' into church you are legalistic but if you actually think that Jesus' spirit or the Holy Spirit is with you while you gather, you are hyper spiritual is contradictory to say the least, so perhaps tf is not sure which it is himself
it certainly is not about tithing though
MATT. 22:14.
For many are called, but few are chosen.
7:23.
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, you that work iniquity.
MATT. 13:16.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
we always have to be aware of the 'false witness' among us!
for it is written:
MIC. 7:6.
For the son dishonours the father, the daughter rises up against her mother, the daughter in law
against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house.
MATT. 10:36.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
For many are called, but few are chosen.
7:23.
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, you that work iniquity.
MATT. 13:16.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
we always have to be aware of the 'false witness' among us!
for it is written:
MIC. 7:6.
For the son dishonours the father, the daughter rises up against her mother, the daughter in law
against her mother in law; a man's enemies are the men of his own house.
MATT. 10:36.
And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
"... to get back to the thought behind the original op"...
Okay... not to pick on the OP
, but he does say a couple things (in the OP) that cause discernment to be stirred:--he uses the phrase "lukewarm Christian," which I do not believe to be a biblical use of the word "lukewarm" where it is used in Scripture (provided one is taking the word "Christian" as meaning a true member of "the Church which is His body"); and
--his mention of "D. Bonhoeffer," who held the following beliefs (not someone I'd want to pattern my Christian life after, just sayin'
) :Bonhoeffer's beliefs:
⦁ had no faith in the physical resurrection of Christ
⦁ believed in infant and adult "baptismal regeneration"
⦁ that Christ is not the only way to God
⦁ denied the sinlessness of Christ as a man
⦁ denied the deity of Christ
⦁ denied the virgin birth
⦁ believed that Genesis is full of myths
⦁ believed that such things as miracles and the ascension of Christ were "mythological conceptions"
⦁ denied the verbal-plenary inspiration of Scripture; believed in the value of higher criticism/historical criticism, which is a denial of the inerrancy and authenticity of the Bible
⦁ Bonhoeffer was in reality a practical atheist and a religious humanist who denied virtually every cardinal doctrine of the historic Christian faith
I see no problem with endeavoring to grasp the impact of what else the point may be, in this thread, based on even just these two issues alone. = D
are you his lawyer?
ps...I don't need an interpreter.
lets keep that in context please
If you've thought his point was to say: "if legalistic is showing up anywhere, it would be in your interpretation of Jesus not available as per what MOST believers understand" (as you've said he must've meant), then yes I believe you've grossly misunderstood what he was conveying. = ) Just tryin' to help out, is all. Carry on. = )
L
lenna
Guest
Okay... not to pick on the OP
ding ding ding aaaannnnd we have a winner!
have you read the op? kinda long so let me give the Reader's Digest or maybe the Lenna short form return
throughfaith is not the op, but he has advised us all that the gospels, book of Acts and James are not for instruction to us Gentile believers low these 2000 years in the future
which I totally disagree with
so if you believe as he doe he, I also disagree with you
read page 1 for his views on the above. I am disagreeing with his general application of the aforementioned books (actually lack thereof) which are of no use to us according to him
passing the torch and do carry on
There’s a movement now happening that has taken the gathering in a building, outside in the open and I just was made aware of it yesterday.
A group has met with church leaders in certain cities and forming these open outside meetings, and yesterday met in Miami. They believe they are part of the harvest of souls before the coming of Jesus.
I watched both the gathering in Chicago which was a replay on Facebook, and what I believe was the live meeting in Miami yesterday. I get fooled often though, thinking something is live when it’s a replay. Must be my age.
There was an announcement that the next open air meeting that’s scheduled is October 25th in Washington DC. This is exciting to me, and the Chicago event was thrilling. Taking the city of a murderous spirit and turning it around. How great is our God! Washington DC stirs me too and my wish is to be there too.
I was part of the Jesus movement and I believe this is similar.
Will try to get more details and maybe someone else knows the name of the one who has organized it.
The young man leading the worship with the long blond hair has the most beautiful smile. I think I understand now what Jesus saw in Nathaniel.
A group has met with church leaders in certain cities and forming these open outside meetings, and yesterday met in Miami. They believe they are part of the harvest of souls before the coming of Jesus.
I watched both the gathering in Chicago which was a replay on Facebook, and what I believe was the live meeting in Miami yesterday. I get fooled often though, thinking something is live when it’s a replay. Must be my age.
There was an announcement that the next open air meeting that’s scheduled is October 25th in Washington DC. This is exciting to me, and the Chicago event was thrilling. Taking the city of a murderous spirit and turning it around. How great is our God! Washington DC stirs me too and my wish is to be there too.
I was part of the Jesus movement and I believe this is similar.
Will try to get more details and maybe someone else knows the name of the one who has organized it.
The young man leading the worship with the long blond hair has the most beautiful smile. I think I understand now what Jesus saw in Nathaniel.
ding ding ding aaaannnnd we have a winner!
have you read the op? kinda long so let me give the Reader's Digest or maybe the Lenna short form return
throughfaith is not the op, but he has advised us all that the gospels, book of Acts and James are not for instruction to us Gentile believers low these 2000 years in the future
which I totally disagree with
so if you believe as he doe he, I also disagree with you
read page 1 for his views on the above. I am disagreeing with his general application of the aforementioned books (actually lack thereof) which are of no use to us according to him
passing the torch and do carry on
Perhaps this needs to be explained more?
The gospels and possibly James was written before the Cross and His resurrection. And Pentecost had not yet happened. Which you know of course.
So the 4 gospels were written to those under law, yet they did not realize that the law was right before their eyes, living, breathing, portraying the true Spirit of law as He fulfilled every demand put on mankind.
Acts is exactly that. But culminates with Paul being free to teach the kingdom of God. The books after are the explanations of what the kingdom of God is, within man, and the power (Holy Spirit) who was then revealed in that book.
We read with these things in mind. Not that we don’t read.