Calvinism and Context?

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posthuman said:
if the book is to be understood as Job on trial in the court of his friends there's no reason for God to be involved at all. God's words are just as inadmissible as Elihu's on the same grounds that God is speaking out of turn.

it's Job's own argument by declaring his innocence and supposed unfair treatment that it is God who is being put to trial - countersuit in your Babylonian interpretation - and it is God's and Elihu's response that such a thing is bogus.

the court-of-Hammurabi-framework view still puts Elihu in good light and delegitimizes itself by the fact it the book doesn't end with chapter 31
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Now you're just grasping at straws. The oath of innocence Job gives makes it so only God can bring a charge against him precisely because Job turns it around and says if God has something against me let Him bring the charge. Which is why Elihu is speaking out of place, because only God can bring a charge and by speaking Elihu is continuing the charge against Job putting himself in God's place.
 
EleventhHour said:
So you also agree with limited atonement?
You know I wish you could just be forthright in what you believe.
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I just summarized what I believe the last couple of posts. Probably in less than 50 words.

You can do the same but you refuse. I mean why let the cat out of the bag eh?
 
cv5 said:
I just summarized what I believe the last couple of posts. Probably in less than 50 words.

You can do the same but you refuse. I mean why let the cat out of the bag eh?
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Believe about what exactly?
 
Bbrdrd said:
Now you're just grasping at straws. The oath of innocence Job gives makes it so only God can bring a charge against him precisely because Job turns it around and says if God has something against me let Him bring the charge. Which is why Elihu is speaking out of place, because only God can bring a charge and by speaking Elihu is continuing the charge against Job putting himself in God's place.
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Perhaps a new thread? :unsure:
 
Bbrdrd said:
Yeah it is kind of off topic for this one since it's such a tangent. Though if he now understands the argument I've been making and fails to see the error in Elihu I'm not sure there's any more to say.
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I do not mind tangents... Just thought it would be advantageous to have a specific thread on the topic
 
cv5 said:
And there is your problem. Stated quite succinctly I might add. Back to iggy for you lady.
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Wow I asked a simple question, we have discussed many things, limited atonement, salvation, grace, faith, worthiness, unconditional election ..

Put me in the unworthy pile...LOL
 
EleventhHour said:
I do not mind tangents... Just thought it would be advantageous to have a specific thread on the topic
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I may write one up when I am a little more in my wits to see if there is interest, as I think it's pretty important what mistaking Elihu's position does to the character of God in the process. Job really is a deep book to learn about God but because its characteristic viewpoint of humans struggling for answers sifting through it can be a dredge.
 
God sent his only begotten Son so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. This is the whole world and all men. As one man brought death upon all men…one also brought the gift of life unto all men who will believe and accept it. Jesus destroyed the bondage of death and whosoever shall call upon him shall be saved. There is no respect of persons.


God wants all men to be saved. It is not his will that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. He opened this up to all, and whosoever will believe and accept it shall be saved. If they don't they wont be saved and they will have no excuse.

The gospel is pretty straight forward and simple, if you ask me. No need to complicate it.

Whosoever will let him come and take of the water of life freely.
 
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1ofthem said:
The gospel is pretty straight forward and simple, if you ask me. No need to complicate it.
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Correct. Therefore we need to understand that every perversion of the Gospel is ultimately from Satan, who uses men with warped theologies to produce "another gospel". See Galatians 1.

The true and full Gospel of Christ has been under attack ever since Christ came to earth. And it continues to be under attack within Christendom, let alone by other religions. TULIP is one manifestation. Then we have the Catholic Mass, which denies and undermines the finished work of Christ. Then we have those teaching baptismal regeneration or baptism as being necessary for salvation.
 
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cv5 said:
Spiritually unworthy of Gods Holy kingdom. And not simply insufficient spiritual worth, zero spiritual worth. God by His Spirit MAKES a person worthy.

A requirement that would NEVER HAPPEN in and of ourselves, by ourselves. Sanctification is an act that originates from OUTSIDE ourselves, and that ONLY by the grace of God, not by any singular or combination of works that we ourselves have done.
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Let us look at what God states.....

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


God so loved > who is Love and did the greatest act of love for

The world > all the people that inhabit His beloved Creation
That He gave> the ultimate act of love

His only begotten son> God’s greatest gift of love

That whosoever > the great invitation to all

Believes > God’s simplicity, so that all man can respond and God displays His truth by His creation to all, although not everyone will respond and will suppress the truth of God because of sin and that is by their choice

In Him> the Name above all Names, Jesus

Would not perish > complete redemption for those who believe

But Have > complete security in Him

Everlasting Life > the greatest gift

Yes all originates from the love God and no one disputes this.
 
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Nehemiah6 said:
Correct. Therefore we need to understand that every perversion of the Gospel is ultimately from Satan, who uses men with warped theologies to produce "another gospel". See Galatians 1.

The true and full Gospel of Christ has been under attack ever since Christ came to earth. And it continues to be under attack within Christendom, let alone by other religions. TULIP is one manifestation. Then we have the Catholic Mass, which denies and undermines the finished work of Christ. Then we have those teaching baptismal regeneration or baptism as being necessary for salvation.
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Can we agree on the principles of this post? It is pretty straightforward.

#983
 
cv5 said:
As I have said before, the Bible is clear that the KIND of love that God has for the unsaved is that of sheer pity and mercy. God does not FIRST love us for our MERIT, CHARACTER, or RIGHTEOUSNESS.
So what was for the nation Israel so it is for ourselves.

Jesus did not die on the cross to INCREASE our righteousness!
Jesus did not die on the cross to INCREASE our glory!
Jesus did not die on the cross to INCREASE our worthiness!

Jesus died on the cross to give us what we NEVER HAD to begin with. After the fall that is.
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May be God loves us because He created us?
God loves because He is Love.

When Adam sinned God stopped loving humanity is that in scripture?
 
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cv5 said:
As I have said before, the Bible is clear that the KIND of love that God has for the unsaved is that of sheer pity and mercy. God does not FIRST love us for our MERIT, CHARACTER, or RIGHTEOUSNESS.
So what was for the nation Israel so it is for ourselves.

Jesus did not die on the cross to INCREASE our righteousness!
Jesus did not die on the cross to INCREASE our glory!
Jesus did not die on the cross to INCREASE our worthiness!

Jesus died on the cross to give us what we NEVER HAD to begin with. After the fall that is.
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Are you kidding...they actually believe that Jesus died









To increase our righteousness?
“
To increase our Glory
“. “.

To increase our Worthiness?
 
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EleventhHour said:
May be God loves us because He created us?
God loves because He is Love.

When Adam sinned God stopped loving humanity is that in scripture?
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What happened when Adam was disobedient to what God asked of them?

What happened after he was disobedience to God?
 
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