Calvinism and Context?

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jackrosie said:
This is a personal vision......fitting together like a jigsaw puzzle...you know he works in our life right?
You do have that faith?..that he has a plan for our lives?
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No one is saved apart from the Gospel.
 
jackrosie said:
No one is saved unless God chooses and draws them to Jesus...that will never change..my belief.Gods truth.and scriptural.this Time I am going to bed,have a nice day evening.
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I have to the assume then that you are asserting that you were saved and did not know the Gospel by what you keep repeating incessantly.

Scripture is clear faith comes by hearing....
 
posthuman said:
i think you need to stop assuming he's evil and looking for fault, particularly since nothing whatsoever in the text indicates that he is at fault, and look objectively at what's actually written.



a what?






if it was evil for him to speak then everyone in the narrative is evil for not rebuking him: including God.

so far you've made a half dozen accusations against him, none of which hold water, and they were all shot down by the scripture.
the only thing you're clinging to now is 'well he spoke out of turn therefore nothing he says can be right' -- that's not only a non-sequitur but it's not holding water as a premise either, because he tells all 4 of them, answer me if you can - you must choose, tell me, speak up, i'm only speaking because you supposedly wise men have failed and i am full of righteous wrath because i perceive disrespect against my God ((his name means "He is my God")). and not one of them does reprimand him, and neither does God.

if a man speaks out of place in court the judge reprimands him, or the judge is unjust, having no control over his court.
God does not reprimand Elihu. God puts 5 chapters of Elihu's words into God's Word. God doesn't let Satan speak in Genesis 3.

you need to deal with that.
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There are numerous clues that require a historic understanding of the book that Elihu is a foil, and that God's silence on the matter is in accord with Elihu's own words pointing to pride as God's reason for silence. There is a new thread in viewing Elihu as a positive character because a lot of the historic cues have lost their sting. Elihu entering in anger is an immediate clue that he is not to be taken seriously, along with his claims of being perfect in knowledge and other ways that he enlarges his own stance while "defending God."

ANE trial is an ancient near East trial, particularly coming from Babylon. In them there was an ability for someone who is being charged with sin, as Job was, to make a sworn statement of innocence that stands unless the aggrieved themselves directly challenges it, and in the case of Job the aggrieved would be God. Elihu speaks wrong when he says that sin only affects those around Job and Job himself, as sin is ultimately against God. There are other things Elihu speaks wrongly about, but its swept aside because of his heightened view of God.

All of these things serve as primers to view the silence as a rebuke in itself, in that Elihu's brashness is such that it is beneath contempt especially in that he treated God as impersonal. God answering is itself a rebuke for Elihu, because Elihu's argument is that Job's pleas go unheeded because Job is full of evil pride so God giving word to Job at all stands as a denial of Elihu's speech. Again, this is something that is visible if the cultural considerations of audience expectations are held.

You're looking at it from a modern trial standpoint, which have very different procedures and protocols, and the plea of innocence is not part of such a protocol.
 
posthuman said:
i'm sorry, 6 chapters. 32-37

and then God speaks, and has the same message to Job: who are you, that the LORD needs to give an account to you?
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That's precisely it, God's answer is not "who are you that the LORD needs to give an account to you?" The central point is not Job's insignificance, otherwise Elihu's speech on its own would be sufficient. God's examples center on His providential care, that He looks after Behemoth and Leviathon and doesn't miss their needs, yet Job thinks that injustice goes without God's notice. Job realizes that God is answering him in such claims and shuts his mouth because he realizes how ignorant his statements about God not caring were and there being no difference between if he sins or doesn't.
 
EleventhHour said:
I have to the assume then that you are asserting that you were saved and did not know the Gospel by what you keep repeating incessantly.

Scripture is clear faith comes by hearing....
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You can assume what you like..I am saved,Born again....no more defending my belief.

Are you saved?..quickened,..Born again are you alive in Christ?..your post are quite telling.
 
EleventhHour said:
I have to the assume then that you are asserting that you were saved and did not know the Gospel by what you keep repeating incessantly.

Scripture is clear faith comes by hearing....
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What's rather sad is that because she's on "their side" those who hold to doctrines of election allow such deception to stand instead of addressing the major red flags in her statements.
 
Bbrdrd said:
What's rather sad is that because she's on "their side" those who hold to doctrines of election allow such deception to stand instead of addressing the major red flags in her statements.
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So true ... it is deception plain and simple and further a field than Calvinism....at least
Calvinists pay lip service to the need to hear the Gospel.
 
Bbrdrd said:
Where have I denied that faith is a gift from God? Do you not know that a man can have nothing unless it come from God? So, then, how can you distinguish between "human" faith and faith from God, if everything comes from God?

It seems to me you're making distinctions for the sake of doctrine that neither accord with Scripture nor with common sense when you create a category of "human faith." If it is faith, it comes from God in every measure.
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I could explain the difference between the natural mans "faith" and the "gift of faith", which is supernatural but what would be the point. You write much but little is of Scripture teachings. You think you know much but most is foolishness before God. You are likened to this person: 2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. I know this sounds harsh on my part but sooner or later it has to be said.

Even a learned person, should be able to distinguish between the things we obtain in our natural birth and the things needed to equip one as a believer.
 
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Bbrdrd said:
What's rather sad is that because she's on "their side" those who hold to doctrines of election allow such deception to stand instead of addressing the major red flags in her statements.
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What’s also sad is..those that are blinded by the truth and kick against it.
But that is between you and God.....if like me...you are saved...now there’s a question.
 
Key words and phrases do not the understanding of scripture make!

We must be rooted and grounded in the true vine. He is our source of ALL we need to bring forth good fruit.

Genesis to Revelations is the truth,not 1-10 verses applied as a person likes to justify what they THINK!

Is there NOT more?
Do you NOT know more?

FALSE HOPE,FALSE BELIEF AND ANYTHING CONTRARY TO THE WORD IS JUST THAT.............FALSE!
 
awelight said:
I could explain the difference between the natural mans "faith" and the "gift of faith", which is supernatural but what would be the point. You write much but little is of Scripture teachings. You think you know much but most is foolishness before God. You are likened to this person: 2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. I know this sounds harsh on my part but sooner or later it has to be said.

Even a learned person, should be able to distinguish between the things we obtain in our natural birth and the things needed to equip one as a believer.
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Amen!..without a shadow of Doudt...no harshness in your post.only truth.
 
Just_Jo said:
Key words and phrases do not the understanding of scripture make!

We must be rooted and grounded in the true vine. He is our source of ALL we need to bring forth good fruit.

Genesis to Revelations is the truth,not 1-10 verses applied as a person likes to justify what they THINK!

Is there NOT more?
Do you NOT know more?

FALSE HOPE,FALSE BELIEF AND ANYTHING CONTRARY TO THE WORD IS JUST THAT.............FALSE!
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And do you believe we are eternally saved?
 
Bbrdrd said:
There is a new thread in viewing Elihu as a positive character because
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the Talmud says he is Balaam, and despises him, and interestingly, levies many of the exact same charges against him as they teachers of the law accused Christ of: young, arrogant, speaking out of place, impetuous, having no authority to say the harsh things He says to His elders in years. but of His actual words? the Jews could not argue, their mouths were shut. so at His trial they paid men to lie about Him.

do we trust the Talmud?
 
Bbrdrd said:
how ignorant his statements about God not caring were and there being no difference between if he sins or doesn't.
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this is what Elihu tells him.

you accuse Elihu of wickedness for much less than what Job himself says, but God calls Job righteous

is it right? you tell me
 
EleventhHour said:
Is salvation available to everyone if they chose to believe..... or just some chosen by God?
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What a calvinist absolutly cannot grasp is that God deals a measure of faith to all men except Jesus and the MEN MUST actually act upon that faith and BELIEVE the gospel message to be saved. The bible has numerous examples where men, on the verge of belief and obviously convicted of the truth and their state, refused and walked away.....The call (singular) of GOD IS IRREVOCABLE and the fact that MANY ARE CALLED, but few chosen PROVES that grace is resistible.......

ALMOST thou persuadest me to be a Christian

The rich young ruler walked away SORROWFUL

Just to name two examples....

The grace of God that brings salvation has shined down upon ALL MANKIND the bible states.

THE INVISIBLE testifies of God's power and Godhead

Creation speaks night and day in every known language so that ALL MEN ARE WITHOUT EXCUSE.

What are they without excuse OF?

THEY CAN ALL SEE THE ABOVE and hell was NOT MADE for men, but for the devil and his angels because GOD WOULD HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND COME TO REPENTANCE.

The calvinistic blather is as contrary to the truth as Mormonism is......and to reject the above truths to peddle what they peddle proves which spirit actially is leading them!
 
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