I cannot understand the need for the crucifixion-and i think it’s holding my Christian life back

MichaelLone · Sep 10, 2020

Hello,i have been a struggling Christian for years (I read/study the bible daily and pray and do my best where I can) i do not attend church here in the uk 🇬🇧 because of the middle class snobbery that exists within in them. As regards the story of the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ-i believe it without doubt 💯 % but i still-despite discipleship and much praying and bible reading-cannot see the purpose of it. Why was gods son nailed to a cross-tortured and humiliated to get a message across. Why did god not just send his beloved son with a message and a warning-“this is your last chance-we’re wiping the slate clean but you must follow me“. Why the need for Jesus’ blood 🩸 why the need for such a barbaric death ordered by his own father-the merciful lord got. I just don’t get it. Jesus didn’t need to be murdered to get me to follow him. Please help me I’m confused 🤷‍♂️

stepbystep · Sep 10, 2020

You need to study how sin is paid for. What is the cost to redeem a person from their sin. Start there, and you will soon realize why it was necessary for God to devise his salvation plan the way he did.

Do a search of this subject, and you will find lots of good information.

Bbrdrd · Sep 10, 2020

The crucifixion wasn't to get a message across...

Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. (Hebrews 2:14-15)

SoulWeaver · Sep 10, 2020

Death was necessary to redeem us into life because the law is, life for life. The law had to be fulfilled God is a lawful being it's His nature, nobody including Himself had choice in the matter so He came down and did what He had to do.

John 14:8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

As for the kind of death and exact details of Jesus' life and death, the reasons are really cosmic and run vastly through the whole Bible so it's hard to give a one liner type of answer.
Every thing has a significance, from soldiers casting lots for His robes (like we get His robes as lot = inheritance), to being crucified (love God symbolized by the vertical line of the cross and love one another with the horizontal, and killing the flesh upon these two commandments), from the mark on Cain's forehead when God spared Cain (letter tav, aka the cross), to Moses lifting up the brazen serpent in the wilderness for their healing, so Jesus had to also be lifted up, and as it is a curse to hang on a tree, He did it to lift the curse. It's because the world gives the innocent bitterness to drink in this world (evil and affliction) that Jesus had to also drink gall and vinegar while dying. The whole Word of God had to be fulfilled and He couldn't deviate from the truth.

Dino246 · Sep 10, 2020

MichaelLone said:

Hi Michael, and welcome to CC! Thanks for being straightforward about your concerns and doubts; that took courage.

Jesus' death on the cross paid the penalty for sin (death). Sin, the sin of humans, is so heinous that it would keep us, God's beloved creation, out of His presence forever. Jesus' death made it possible for things to be right again between man and God.

PC123 · Sep 11, 2020

MichaelLone said:

I am the same... I also don't understand why Jesus had to be sent to die on a cross for our sins and i feel it is holding me back...

I try and imagine people who have sinned against me and then sending my son to court to be sentenced to death in order to pay for their sins. That makes no sense to me...

After the original sin of Adam and Eve, God cursed the rest of humanity with sin... But God hates us being sinners even though it was Him that gave us this sinful nature. That makes no sense to me...

It is said that God sacrificed His only son to die for our sins. But, it wasn't really a big sacrifice given that Jesus rose up from the dead and back up into heaven. That makes no sense to me...

According to the Trinity Jesus is God... So God sent himself to die on a cross for our sins. That makes no sense to me...

I don't understand it...

seed_time_harvest · Sep 11, 2020

MichaelLone said:

GOD loves righteousness and IS righteous and HE will only accept perfection.

HE gave man the ability to make a choice whether right or wrong man had a choice.Adam made the wrong choice and all of creation fell and mankind became spiritually dead,but GOD did not give up on man and gave man the law but man could not keep the law perfectly being weak In the flesh.So their was no way for man to be In relationship with GOD.So then GOD had mercy on us and sent HIS WORD to earth manifested In flesh(the messiah) JESUS.Remember the law says that you break It and It means death.JESUS died for all those that had broke the law(Ten Commandments)that believed In HIM.

Hebrews 1:7-10
King James Version

7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
+++
John 3:14-17
King James Version

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Bbrdrd · Sep 11, 2020

PC123 said:

God didn't curse humanity with sin, when Adam and Eve disobeyed sin entered the world. Part of it is today we have very abstract ways of thinking and do not realize that sin is an anti-substance. It is uncreation, corrupting the creation that God called good. While God could simply forgive us when we repent, that would do nothing to address the corruption of sin.
So God gave the law, to bring consciousness of sin. Once we had the law we no longer sinned in ignorance not knowing the consequence, but our sin became deliberate and reached the ultimate sin. (Romans 7)
In submitting Himself to death caused by the highest sinfulness Jesus took the corruption in Himself but being God He could not Himself be corrupted, so the corruption was destroyed resulting in the victory of the resurrection.

Bugs · Sep 11, 2020

All the sins you have committed now and till you die deserve the exact punishment that Christ received. You deserve to be crucified and receive all the torment that came with it.

A judge would be considered corrupt if he let a guilty person go free without punishment. So God will judge your sin in life and He cannot just dismiss it, because we are all guilty. and He is not corrupt. So you are sentenced to death as painful as the cross was for Christ, but in His mercy He took the punishment for you.

What is it you do not like about other believers? Unless you ran into a church with unsaved pretenders that left you with a bad taste you got to realize that these are Christians. Do you prefer being around those outside of the church? If you do not like being around us now then what will it be like after you die and have to live with us for eternity?

EternalFire · Sep 11, 2020

PC123 said:

I am the same... I also don't understand why Jesus had to be sent to die on a cross for our sins and i feel it is holding me back...

I try and imagine people who have sinned against me and then sending my son to court to be sentenced to death in order to pay for their sins. That makes no sense to me...

After the original sin of Adam and Eve, God cursed the rest of humanity with sin... But God hates us being sinners even though it was Him that gave us this sinful nature. That makes no sense to me...

It is said that God sacrificed His only son to die for our sins. But, it wasn't really a big sacrifice given that Jesus rose up from the dead and back up into heaven. That makes no sense to me...

According to the Trinity Jesus is God... So God sent himself to die on a cross for our sins. That makes no sense to me...

I don't understand it...

This video will help shed some light on what Trinitarians believe about Jesus' death on the cross.

Lucy-Pevensie · Sep 11, 2020

MichaelLone said:

Hi MichelLone,

I'm in the UK too & I'm definitely from a working class background.
I haven't read the other responses yet. This website gets a lot of traffic and there can be fifty posts before you've even seen the thread. Subjects tend to get lost easily as well.
It's also very very American. It can be quite insular sometimes in that respect though I don't think most are aware of it.
You probably have a few good answers already.

You've said you read the Bible, that's great. Have you read it chronologically from the beginning to the end? It's a great journey.
The reason I ask is that many Christians stay predominantly in New Testament verses & treat the Old Testament as a secondary
back-story. I'm not sure all churches encourage deep, thorough study.

If you start from the beginning you really get to see what is on God's heart & by the time you get to the fulfilment of many of his plans in the crucifixion is makes sense. He was promising Jesus right from the beginning in Genesis Chapter 3. God isn't a belligerent dictator I promise.

I would also be curious to know which Bible translation/s you are reading.

GandalfTheWhite · Sep 11, 2020

Hi Michel

No Christian forum on this plant will ever clear up your confusion. Like Lucy said, this website consist of mainly Americans. That is not a bad thing but every country experience religion differently. The other problem you have is that opinions on a site like this is a all over the place. To get two people to agree on all the Biblical issues is close to impossible.

My suggestion is read the Bible and enroll yourself in a good Bible school.

The only way you will understand the Bible is to study it (all of it) and discuss the word with fellow believers.

Good luck and God bless

Nehemiah6 · Sep 11, 2020

MichaelLone said:

Hello Michael, and Welcome to this forum. I will give you an answer in plain English.

1. The crucifixion of Christ is rooted in the character of God. God is absolutely holy, righteous, and just. All laws have penalties when they are violated. And when God's laws have been violated, the penalty is death (which includes the Second Death). Just as the death penalty applies to heinous crimes, the death penalty applies to sins against God (even if they are sins against men).

2. Ever since Adam disobeyed God, all human beings have violated the Ten Commandments. Therefore all mankind is under a death sentence. And had God done nothing, every human being would be eternally separated from Him in Hell (which is the Second Death). That is what God's holiness and righteousness demand.

3. But because God is also merciful and grace, He provided a SUBSTITUTE for mankind. And that substitute was none other than His only begotten Son. God planned from the very beginning to have Christ take all the sins and guilt of the world upon Himself, and pay the full penalty for sins through His crucifixion and the shedding of His blood. And because Christ is both God and Man, He paid that penalty in full and then declared "It is finished". And because His sacrifice for sins was perfect, Christ arose from the dead after three days and three nights. Thus He is a living Savior seated at the right hand of God.

4. God's absolute justice demanded that the penalty for sins be paid in full. Only after that could God offer grace, mercy, and pardon to all those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. But the second condition for salvation is repentance -- a total turning away from sin and evil and idols. That is what God expects from those who are saved by grace.

5. No man can pay the penalty for his own sins since that would be eternal separation from God. Neither can any man earn his way to Heaven by his own good deeds, since they would not be sufficient. That is why God designed his perfect plan of salvation, so that none would face Hell. However, those who reject Christ and refuse to obey the Gospel will face their just punishment.

GandalfTheWhite · Sep 11, 2020

MichaelLone said:

The Bible teach us that Jesus was crucified from the beginning so there was never any other way way for Him to redeem you and me from our sinful nature. Sinners in the time of the Bible were killed in the most horrible ways and the cross was kept for the worst of them because it was such agony. Jesus suffered for your sins and that is the highest price anybody could pay for you and me. Imagine taking the sins of everybody you know and say "I am guilty of it". That is against human nature. But then again Jesus was 100% God and 100% human.

The Bible also teach us that Jesus had to die to take the curse of our sins on himself. If he did not die this violent death on the cross we had to still slaughter the lambs and follow every lawful act in the Bible. It is much more complicated but this is the basics and start for every follower of Christ.

TMS · Sep 11, 2020

MichaelLone said:

hello or gday from Australia,
I'll just say be careful, there can be some different ways to explain this subject, and it is so important to understand it right.
Simply said sin needs to be paid for and Jesus paid in full with his life.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Why didn't God just change the law so that Adam's sin didn't result in death? because the law and order of the universe is perfect and if sin was allowed to continue for eternity the universe would have a huge sin problem, Sin would become normal.

Justification is a gift, It only takes one sin no matter how small, to make us sinful. So to love Jesus and follow him perfectly is not enough to save us if Jesus does not give us His righteousness to cover the sins we have done. Think of it like a court room, the judge give us a fine of 1000000000 dollars, we have to pay it and will never obtain that amount of money, but if someone has the money and wants to help us they can pay it for us. Our fine is eternal death and Jesus paid it in full. Thats why works are never able to save us, we can never work our way to heaven because the dept can not be worked off.

Adstar · Sep 11, 2020

MichaelLone said:

This is basic Christianity 101..

The penalty for sin is death..

All sinners are under the penalty of death..

Not just physical death of this flesh existence but the ""second death"" in the eternal lake of fire..

We are all sinners so we are all destined to be cast into the eternal lake of fire..

Unless Someone willingly takes the penalty for us and is executed..

Someone did willingly suffer the death sentence for us..

The LORD Jesus willingly gave His life on the cross and His death pays the penalty for the sins of everyone who believes Jesus and trusts in the Atonement He secured on the cross..

Remember God is perfect and thus cannot be corrupt.. He cannot turn a blind eye to sin.. If God is to forgive sin He must do it Justly not corruptly.. God found a way to pay the penalty for our sins and save us from eternal torment in the lake of fire.. Through the LORD Jesus Christ..

So by believing Jesus and trusting in the atonement we shall be justly forgiven and justly transformed into perfect beings on the day of judgement..

All praise, All Glory and all Boasting are to the LORD Jesus..

notuptome · Sep 11, 2020

Why crucifixion? To fulfill prophecy. Isaiah 53 speaks of Christ beaten until He no longer looked like a man, His visage so marred. Jesus Himself said if He be lifted up He would draw all unto Himself.

The spectacle of Jesus crucifixion was such that it to this day produces awe in those who gaze upon it. Jesus crucifixion is God showing how severe His judgment upon sin is in terms men can comprehend.

The Romans exacted every bit of human wrath they could inflict upon Christ. The Romans humiliated Christ in the most spectacular way that they could muster. All this to reflect the severity of our sin.

While Christ was crucified it was Jesus in place of us. Jesus took our place on the cross. Jesus did not merit crucifixion but we as sinner merit that and eternal condemnation.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

garee · Sep 11, 2020

MichaelLone said:

Something I have been looking at for a while in regard to the outward three day propmised demonstration (Isaiah 53) of the unseen father working with Jesus the Son of man. God pouring out his wrath on the corrupted flesh of Jesus and strengthening him as Jesus prayed (a work) .Two working in perfect harmony and submissions to one another to bring the peace of God. Prayer is a work.

The cross the second phase of the three part demonstration of the lamb who was slain from the foundation of the world .It employed the witness of man "what the eyes see". But the witness of God not seen is the greater because it is of God. alone. The witness of faith They as that seen the temporal and that not seen, the eternal work togethter. . called the mixing of faith .

The witness of God (Isaiah 53) began in the garden . Only the father and Son are shown performing it. Jesus in his weakness attempted to involve the work of the disciples to also pray, as the witness of men . But the father would have nothing to do with it. He put the disciples to sleep three times with three used to denote the end of a matter.

When they finished that part of the three day demonstration .They moved on to the witness of men the cross . But the sufferings was not attributed to the Satan inspired mob or the strength in prayer as a work of disciples. . The lesser witness

The last part of the three part demonstration was in the tomb. The unseen work hid from the eyes .When the father continued to strengthen Jesus to do the good will of God that worked in the Son of man Jesus. .

One demonstration three parts.

From my experience the garden of Gethsemane part, the witness of God is sometimes not taken in account.

Then it would be very difficult to mix faith and hear the gospel of rest.

MichaelLone · Sep 11, 2020

PC123 said:

As Tiffany said “I think we’re alone..” certainly in Christian ✝️ circles we are. I have read much of the bible and am afraid my failure to understand the most significant part of it (Jesus death) will stop me from ever being a true Christian 😔 i agree with you-it doesn’t make sense. There are parts of the bible that seem brutal and others beautiful-but the story makes sense good bad or other. With the crucifixion it goes: “son all the people need punishment for their sins and told they can be free if they follow us-but as we both love them so much I’m going to punish you instead by arranging a crucifixion for you” WHAT? I try my best and like yourself I’m just 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

MichaelLone · Sep 11, 2020

SoulWeaver said:

Interesting. It’s amazing how i even see the cross as a symbol of love and peace ✌️ yet do not understand-and probably never will-How the S&M crucifixion of Jesus was in anyway loving or necessary. Also you mention life for life as a reason-I am passionately apposed to the death 💀 penalty no matter what the crime. Thank you for trying to help i shall carry on praying and hope that this does not keep me away from Jesus

I cannot understand the need for the crucifixion-and i think it’s holding my Christian life back

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