Eschatology differences & how people get treated

[Truth7t7]

When Paul wrote isn't all that relevant to the question as the teaching undermined the faith because it robbed it of a future hope. Teaching that Jesus already has come and gone with the world still full of evil is a denial of the gospel as a hope for the whole world.

The second point is true, as accepting portions of a system does not make one an adherent. Though my point with that was more to express that the tolerance for different interpretations is wide but not unlimited.

There are some eschatological positions that rise to 1st order theological issues rather than being 2nd and 3rd order. These are where one crosses the line from heterdoxy into heresy through denial of essentials.

Your wording and presentation is 100% correct., Double Thumbs Up

(Full Preterism)

1.) To deny a future second coming of Jesus Christ is a first order issue, a foundation of the Christian faith

2.) To deny a future resurrection of the believer is a first order issue, a foundation of the Christian faith.

(Full Preterism) Is Heretical, Simple

 

[Bbrdrd]

What "essentials" are being denied? The divinity of Christ? The virgin birth? Jesus' atoning death? The resurrection?

This is the essence of the issue that the OP was addressing; Christians are dismissing other Christians as heretics over differences in interpretation of end-time events. I haven't seen any post that denies the resurrection from the dead, nor of the eternal kingship of Christ. I see no reason to condemn someone if they differ, but I will vigorously resist someone who attempts to condemn me.

It's a rare heresy, but teaching that the resurrection has already occurred and there is no future resurrection is a denial of the resurrection as firstfruits. It robs the gospel of its hope which is the future reconciliation of the world.

I agree that 99.999999999% of the time eschatological differences are simply matters of interpretation and not something to be condemned over, but that's not to say they can never rise to that level. Nearly every aspect of theology has some lines that cross from simple differences of interpretation into heretical statements.

 

[garee]

What everyone is trying to tell you, and what you continually reject, is that God came in the flesh. Your explanations don't make sense in light of Scripture.

Nobody is claiming that God is a mere man; we've been over that a dozen times. However, Jesus is fully man AND He is fully God. If Jesus were a mere man, his death would have been meaningless, because he would not have been the perfect sinless sacrifice.

Not a mere man no man. God is not a man in any shape or form. God came using the flesh as a media . He a spoke through a Ass. God is not a Ass.

God is not flesh and blood as the Son of man . Jesus the apostle like any apostle did the will of God .We do not know God after the flesh.He s not a man.

 

[garee]

Hebrews 3:1 calls Jesus "the apostle and high priest of our faith". I get your point though; Jesus was not merely an apostle.

Apostle bring the word of the father. The first apostle listed was Abel. Why would the apostle Jesus be different? The first born of many brethren? .

 

[Nehemiah6]

The same reason that apostasy is on the rise in North America. Which is failure to believe the Bible in its plain literal sense. Amillennialism is pure fantasy, since it rejects what is plainly revealed in Revelation 20. Which is no ordinary revelation. It is THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST.

We have someone actually disagreeing that (1) the Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ -- a very special revelation, and (2) that Revelation 20 speaks of the Millennium SIX TIMES in seven verses. So when someone disagrees with Holy Writ, there is no hope for that person.

The book of Revelation is quite unique. God the Father gave this Revelation to the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ handed it to an angel, and an angel handed it to the apostle John (Rev 1:1).

The Revelation of Jesus Christ...
...which God [the Father] gave unto Him [Christ],
...to shew unto His [Christ's] servants
...things which must shortly come to pass;
...and He [Christ] sent and signified it by His angel
...unto His servant John:

So those who are servants of Christ will believe that it is actually God who said that there would be a future Millennium under Christ -- "a thousand years" or "the thousand years". A very specific time period after the Second Coming of Christ and the battle of Armageddon (where the Antichrist and his False Prophet are defeated and cast into the Lake of Fire).

 

[SoulWeaver]

There is a sliver of eschatological belief that undermines the gospel message. While believing in elements of preterism, or dispensationalism, or whatever other ism one adheres to certainly is speculative and debateable claiming that the 2nd coming has already occured (which is what I take him to mean when he repeatedly says full preterism) undermines the hope of a future salvation. It renders salvation moot and thereby robs the gospel of its hope, which is why Paul wrote against it specifically.

That doesn't even make sense.
People believe in Jesus because they need salvation. If they didn't think they needed salvation and that Jesus can provide it, they wouldn't have believed in nor followed Jesus to begin with, so what you're saying is not even logical. And it's blowing things out of proportion as many subjects here are blown out of proportion. Every kind of belief is blown up into a salvation issue here on BDF. Christianity is not a belief system, it's having the Spirit of the living God in you.

 

[Truth7t7]

We have someone actually disagreeing that (1) the Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus Christ -- a very special revelation, and (2) that Revelation 20 speaks of the Millennium SIX TIMES in seven verses. So when someone disagrees with Holy Writ, there is no hope for that person.

The book of Revelation is quite unique. God the Father gave this Revelation to the Lord Jesus Christ. Christ handed it to an angel, and an angel handed it to the apostle John (Rev 1:1).

The Revelation of Jesus Christ...
...which God [the Father] gave unto Him [Christ],
...to shew unto His [Christ's] servants
...things which must shortly come to pass;
...and He [Christ] sent and signified it by His angel
...unto His servant John:

So those who are servants of Christ will believe that it is actually God who said that there would be a future Millennium under Christ -- "a thousand years" or "the thousand years". A very specific time period after the Second Coming of Christ and the battle of Armageddon (where the Antichrist and his False Prophet are defeated and cast into the Lake of Fire).

Your claim is false, my English KJV dosent mention the word (Millennium) once, you have added to the scripture.

Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lord's spiritual realm, Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

There is no earthly kingdom or mortal humans seen as you falsely teach, not a one!

Revelation 20:1-6KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Your claim is false, my English KJV dosent mention the word (Millennium) once, you have added to the scripture.

That is why I said "the thousand years" or "a thousand years".

ONE MILLENNIUM = 1,000 YEARS.

So you need to retract your FALSE ACCUSATION that my claim is false.

 

[Truth7t7]

That is why I said "the thousand years" or "a thousand years".

ONE MILLENNIUM = 1,000 YEARS.

So you need to retract your FALSE ACCUSATION that my claim is false.

Your claim below is false, the word (Millennium) isn't used in my KJV Holy Bible, you have added to scripture.

I don't care if you give your explanation of Millennium=1,000, it's not in the scripture.

Quote Below Nehemiah6:

"(2) that Revelation 20 speaks of the Millennium SIX TIMES in seven verses."

 

[Bbrdrd]

That doesn't even make sense.
People believe in Jesus because they need salvation. If they didn't think they needed salvation and that Jesus can provide it, they wouldn't have believed in nor followed Jesus to begin with, so what you're saying is not even logical. And it's blowing things out of proportion as many subjects here are blown out of proportion. Every kind of belief is blown up into a salvation issue here on BDF. Christianity is not a belief system, it's having the Spirit of the living God in you.

Teachers of heresy are not believers. While Christianity may not be a belief system there are critical beliefs to describe someone as a Christian. Jehovah's witnesses, though they teach from an biased translation of the Bible are not believers because they deny Christ's deity. Mormons as well. Yet they would call themselves believers and teach that theirs is the true faith of Christ.
I have only heard one person actually teach an eschatology that went beyond the pale of belief but the point is that making a blanket statement that eschatology is not a primary issue is untrue as there are manners in which it can cross over into heresy.

 

[Truth7t7]

Teachers of heresy are not believers. While Christianity may not be a belief system there are critical beliefs to describe someone as a Christian. Jehovah's witnesses, though they teach from an biased translation of the Bible are not believers because they deny Christ's deity. Mormons as well. Yet they would call themselves believers and teach that theirs is the true faith of Christ.
I have only heard one person actually teach an eschatology that went beyond the pale of belief but the point is that making a blanket statement that eschatology is not a primary issue is untrue as there are manners in which it can cross over into heresy.

You mean like teaching?

No future second coming?
No future resurrection?
No future eternal kingdom?

 

[Truth7t7]

Teachers of heresy are not believers. While Christianity may not be a belief system there are critical beliefs to describe someone as a Christian. Jehovah's witnesses, though they teach from an biased translation of the Bible are not believers because they deny Christ's deity. Mormons as well. Yet they would call themselves believers and teach that theirs is the true faith of Christ.
I have only heard one person actually teach an eschatology that went beyond the pale of belief but the point is that making a blanket statement that eschatology is not a primary issue is untrue as there are manners in which it can cross over into heresy.

Teachers Of Heresy Are Not Believers?

Gods Words Would Agree!

Romans 16:17-18KJV
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

 

[pottersclay]

Hebrews 3:1 calls Jesus "the apostle and high priest of our faith". I get your point though; Jesus was not merely an apostle.

Well now I stand corrected...thank you dino246😱😱

 

[SoulWeaver]

Teachers of heresy are not believers. While Christianity may not be a belief system there are critical beliefs to describe someone as a Christian. Jehovah's witnesses, though they teach from an biased translation of the Bible are not believers because they deny Christ's deity. Mormons as well. Yet they would call themselves believers and teach that theirs is the true faith of Christ.
I have only heard one person actually teach an eschatology that went beyond the pale of belief but the point is that making a blanket statement that eschatology is not a primary issue is untrue as there are manners in which it can cross over into heresy.

So now you're tossing the denying of deity of Christ into the argument in attempt to "prove" (=inflate) eschatology differences into a terrible damnable heresy, btw deity of Jesus isn't the subject of this thread. You don't have a solid argument you're arguing off your feelings and you know it, so you have to resort to blowing things up and confusing the subject.

 

[Dino246]

Well now I stand corrected...thank you dino246😱😱

I wondered about it too, and probably would have made the same comment if I hadn't come across that verse recently.

 

[Bbrdrd]

So now you're tossing the denying of deity of Christ into the argument in attempt to "prove" (=inflate) eschatology differences into a terrible damnable heresy, btw deity of Jesus isn't the subject of this thread. You don't have a solid argument you're arguing off your feelings and you know it, so you have to resort to blowing things up and confusing the subject.

Not at all, just pointing out that we can't separate some beliefs from the Christian life and preserve it as a Christian life. We're not talking any eschatological difference, but a very specific one. That being teaching that the second coming and final resurrection has already occured. That's not simply a difference of interpretation but it cuts to the heart of the gospel hope. Yet you're acting as if I'm saying everyone must conform their beliefs around a single view. Not at all, just can't deny that there is a future resurrection and return of Christ.

 

[garee]

Well now I stand corrected...thank you dino246😱😱

An apostle is simply one sent with a authority not of ones own self. (prophecy) Merely does does not come into the picture. Either one is sent or one is not sent . Changing the meaning of the word can destroy the use of a word .

 

[garee]

That is why I said "the thousand years" or "a thousand years".

ONE MILLENNIUM = 1,000 YEARS.

So you need to retract your FALSE ACCUSATION that my claim is false.

ONE MILLENNIUM = 1,000 YEARS as a unknow amount of time. Just as it is used the other three times in scripture.

The word thousand is a metaphor used in parables like the one in Revelation 20 It represents a unknow whenever it us used. There are many examples of the word thousand used that way. We walk by faith according to the signified understanding (Revelation 1:1) Hid in parables.

We walk by faith the unseen eternal . God does not number people or time periods .The Amil position works the best . No need to wonder. . . ? ? ? He will come as a thief in the night on the last day. The end of time under the Sun .

Psalm 90:4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecclesiastes 6:6Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[iamsoandso]

ONE MILLENNIUM = 1,000 YEARS as a unknow amount of time. Just as it is used the other three times in scripture.

The word thousand is a metaphor used in parables like the one in Revelation 20 It represents a unknow whenever it us used. There are many examples of the word thousand used that way. We walk by faith according to the signified understanding (Revelation 1:1) Hid in parables.

We walk by faith the unseen eternal . God does not number people or time periods .The Amil position works the best . No need to wonder. . . ? ? ? He will come as a thief in the night on the last day. The end of time under the Sun .

Psalm 90:4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecclesiastes 6:6Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

This angel thinks he does https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/9-24.htm ... What your misunderstanding is that they are numbered by Jubilees https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jubilee_(biblical) and noted in Scripture of truth https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel 10:21&version=KJV So 50 times 120 jubilees are six days and then the seventh day.

 

[iamsoandso]

Here are those Scriptures look close at verse 24-35(70 years) https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus 26&version=KJV and here https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Chronicles 36:21&version=KJV