Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?
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The problems with denominational separations, whether Catholic or any other, is that they go about to establish their own "faiths" and doctrines. Ephesians 4: 4-6. states that THE CHURCH is the Body of believers baptized into the body of Christ, which is spiritual, and not an institution here on Earth, and I quote: There is ONE body and One Spirit, even as you are called in ONE hope of your calling. ONE Lord, ONE faith, One baptism, ONE God and Father of all, who is ABOVE ALL, and through all and IN you all. The Bible teaches we ALL are to be speaking the SAME THINGS and these denominational differences are not pleasing to the Lord.
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From the history of the church that Jesus set up when he was on earth, there was no Roman Catholic church at that time. The way that history records it in the book called "Trail of Blood" is that two of the elders of the church were in disagreement in incorporating new things into the worship service to entice new people into placing their membership with the church. One of the elders was holding firm to what the scriptures instructed to to be used in the worship service, and that was only, singing, making melody in your heart, and praying, and preaching. The other elder proposed, musical instruments, other aspects of entertainment, and even offering to pay them money to join the membership.
The church that the elder added new ways of increasing the membership grew to be a very large threat to the Roman government that the Roman government incorporated the church as part of the Roman government, thus, the beginning of the "Roman Catholic Church".
The Roman Catholic Church was intent on irredicating the small original church, forcing them to go into hiding to continue meeting to have a worship service to God. Saul, being a Roman, took part in persecuting the church, until his conversion on the road to Damascus.
In the reformation period, in the 1500's, Many of the membership of the Roman Catholic Church began reading the scriptures for themselves, and separated themselves from the Roman Catholic Church, with various interpretations of the scriptures, resulting in the many denominational churches that we have today.
The scriptures inform us that the small remnant of the christian population, known as the original church that Christ had set up, will always be a witness for the truth contained in the doctrine that Jesus taught.
The church that the elder added new ways of increasing the membership grew to be a very large threat to the Roman government that the Roman government incorporated the church as part of the Roman government, thus, the beginning of the "Roman Catholic Church".
The Roman Catholic Church was intent on irredicating the small original church, forcing them to go into hiding to continue meeting to have a worship service to God. Saul, being a Roman, took part in persecuting the church, until his conversion on the road to Damascus.
In the reformation period, in the 1500's, Many of the membership of the Roman Catholic Church began reading the scriptures for themselves, and separated themselves from the Roman Catholic Church, with various interpretations of the scriptures, resulting in the many denominational churches that we have today.
The scriptures inform us that the small remnant of the christian population, known as the original church that Christ had set up, will always be a witness for the truth contained in the doctrine that Jesus taught.
I would say not pleasing but essential. No such thing as no denominations. God is the father of all nations. There must be heresies or sects among us. The kingdom does not come by observation. A Cathodic teaching no denomination we are the church. Just look and believe.
It would seem to be working we sharpening iron are not trying to kill each other as did the Pharisees under a law of the fathers as well as the Catholic also under a law of their fathers. Following the faithless pagan form of government, out of sight out of mind .Kill the misperceived competition.
Sola scriptura put and end to it during the first century reformation .Just as in the fifteenth century reformation.
We are not to be zealous for the god of this world the father of lies as was Saul before his conversion.
Acts 22:3-5 I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women.As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished
We walk by faith the unseen eternal. Not by the letter of men. But the letter of God the Bible. letter giving the approval to kill men were given in both reformations. Same father of lies attempting to make all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura without effect. His signature a "law of the fathers" oral traditions of men .
I would not be so quick to condemn other christians, just because they interpret the scriptures differently than you do.
In Ezk 10, talks about "a wheel within a wheel". This, to me, is representative of the outer wheel, being the total of God's elect, and the inner wheel, being the remnant of those elect who were revealed the truths contained in the doctrine that Jesus taught, The whole, of the outer wheel are all of God's elect, which make up the invisible church that he has given the inheritance of eternal heaven. The inner wheel "the remnant" is the visible church, that will be a witness, of the doctrine that Christ taught, to the last day.
In Ezk 10, talks about "a wheel within a wheel". This, to me, is representative of the outer wheel, being the total of God's elect, and the inner wheel, being the remnant of those elect who were revealed the truths contained in the doctrine that Jesus taught, The whole, of the outer wheel are all of God's elect, which make up the invisible church that he has given the inheritance of eternal heaven. The inner wheel "the remnant" is the visible church, that will be a witness, of the doctrine that Christ taught, to the last day.
While I would agree with you they are mistaken on their view of Muslims, that isn't saying Muslims are saved. It is about the relationship with Muslims saying Catholics can have friendly relationships with Muslims and have some aspects of a common faith. It's a confused position but I don't see anything in it that negates essential doctrine.
You are distorting and bearing false witness against the Catholics. Why do you have such enmity for them?
You are distorting and bearing false witness against the Catholics. Why do you have such enmity for them?
I think you are distorting and bear false witness against catholic not me
You say something that catholic not say
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims.
1.( read this sentence) "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims;
these profess to hold the faith of Abraham,
2 .( read this sentence )and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
I am not modifie or change ccc 841
Read part 1 and 2
You distorting and bear false withness oN that part.
1. Muslim in the plan of salvation.
2. Muslim adore the same God with us (catholic)
Why you bear false witness?
You say something that catholic not say
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims.
1.( read this sentence) "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims;
these profess to hold the faith of Abraham,
2 .( read this sentence )and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
I am not modifie or change ccc 841
Read part 1 and 2
You distorting and bear false withness oN that part.
1. Muslim in the plan of salvation.
2. Muslim adore the same God with us (catholic)
Why you bear false witness?
I'm going by how Catholics have explained that clause, what their understanding of it is. It's an unfortunately phrased clause but it is not taught in the manner you accuse. Catholic teaching is clear that in order to be saved one must believe in the Trinity, Jesus' full deity, and the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.
With that clause they simply were trying to be more ecumenical and focus on the shared aspects of faith rather than setting up division.
With that clause they simply were trying to be more ecumenical and focus on the shared aspects of faith rather than setting up division.
So you accuse catholic Lie with that Claude?
Can you trust catholic?
Read what catholic say one more time
Do I change what It say?
Chek If I change and let me know what part of this paragraph I chepange?
Catholic say
Catholic and muslim adore the same God
Are you try to say catholic Lie about that to unite catholic and muslim ?
Muslim is big religion
If catholic and muslim united there Will be easier to make one world religious isn't It?
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
Can you trust catholic?
Read what catholic say one more time
Do I change what It say?
Chek If I change and let me know what part of this paragraph I chepange?
Catholic say
Catholic and muslim adore the same God
Are you try to say catholic Lie about that to unite catholic and muslim ?
Muslim is big religion
If catholic and muslim united there Will be easier to make one world religious isn't It?
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
What Catholics teach does not depend on how you understand a clause that is taken completely out of its context. Catholics explain that clause by stating the purpose of it is to be peacemakers rather than instigating division.
They've chosen a poor phrasing and are overly generous in agreeing with the Muslim claim that Allah continues the tradition of Abrahamic faiths but they do not mean they believe the same things about God that Muslims do.
What essential doctrine of Christianity do you think they are violating with that clause?
They've chosen a poor phrasing and are overly generous in agreeing with the Muslim claim that Allah continues the tradition of Abrahamic faiths but they do not mean they believe the same things about God that Muslims do.
What essential doctrine of Christianity do you think they are violating with that clause?
Again, the Catholic understanding of that phrasing is what determines if its heresy not how you or I take it. Show me somewhere where a Catholic is teaching that what Muslims teach about God is true, or that Muslims are saved. They're simply being generous in accepting that Muslims have some elements in common by considering them an Abrahamic faith.
"In the plan of salvation" simply means that God has a salvific purpose for Islam, in the same way we can speak of Judas as being in the plan of salvation because his role in setting the crucifixion in motion.
"In the plan of salvation" simply means that God has a salvific purpose for Islam, in the same way we can speak of Judas as being in the plan of salvation because his role in setting the crucifixion in motion.
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So you say It is generous to say muslim and catholic adore the same God ?
To me It is either Lie or If catholic not Lie than catholic is not Christian because muslim God is not Christian God
Let me quote the definition of generous
showing kindness toward others.
"it was generous of them to ask her along"
(of a thing) larger or more plentiful than is usual or necessary.
If you say muslim and Christian adore the same God, than you don't need to preach the gospel to them. They allready have the same God with Christian and mean they are save
That not love, they Will go to hell with their God and you Lie to them not tell,the truth so they save.
Apostle say to jews, Jesus only way and jews kill them. Apostle don't care If there is devition among jews and Christian. Include Peter that is they believe as the first pope.
Pope is infallible isn't It, If pope peter infallible why not follow His way.
To me It is either Lie or If catholic not Lie than catholic is not Christian because muslim God is not Christian God
Let me quote the definition of generous
showing kindness toward others.
"it was generous of them to ask her along"
(of a thing) larger or more plentiful than is usual or necessary.
If you say muslim and Christian adore the same God, than you don't need to preach the gospel to them. They allready have the same God with Christian and mean they are save
That not love, they Will go to hell with their God and you Lie to them not tell,the truth so they save.
Apostle say to jews, Jesus only way and jews kill them. Apostle don't care If there is devition among jews and Christian. Include Peter that is they believe as the first pope.
Pope is infallible isn't It, If pope peter infallible why not follow His way.
Than why catholic nake this statement
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."