Is Catholicism the Oldest Christian Faith?
- Thread starter Searcher92
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
There have been many comments, and I have not read them all, so, if I am repeating someone, forgive me.
This comment does not appear to match with the Title to me.
The catholic religion may be the oldest Christian religion in existence. The New Testament Church existed long before the people who invented the catholic religion came along. What it is not is the Christian Faith which is what Christianity is. The Church established by Jesus is a Faith not a religion in my opinion.
This comment does not appear to match with the Title to me.
The catholic religion may be the oldest Christian religion in existence. The New Testament Church existed long before the people who invented the catholic religion came along. What it is not is the Christian Faith which is what Christianity is. The Church established by Jesus is a Faith not a religion in my opinion.
That's not quite fair considering Catholics do worship Jesus and teach on the incarnation. There certainly is a lot of error in the Catholic tradition but their primary errors are issues of interpretation.
For example, they believe the Bible gives warrant to having a pope via Jesus' decree to Peter.
Their soteriology is more a matter of stubbornness as it comes from a lexical shift since the early Latin Bibles used a word for repentance that came to mean penance over time so they built their catechisms around that understanding when Luther challenged it.
The biggest issue with Catholic dogma is their treatment of Mary, but most of the official documentation doesn't venture as far into problematic territory as polemecists claim. For some there is certainly Mary worship, but for some there is simply honor for Mary.
Considering they operate out of the same Bible for the most part, worship Jesus Christ and teach His death, burial, and resurrection it seems completely unfair to me to deny them a place in the Christian fold.
For example, they believe the Bible gives warrant to having a pope via Jesus' decree to Peter.
Their soteriology is more a matter of stubbornness as it comes from a lexical shift since the early Latin Bibles used a word for repentance that came to mean penance over time so they built their catechisms around that understanding when Luther challenged it.
The biggest issue with Catholic dogma is their treatment of Mary, but most of the official documentation doesn't venture as far into problematic territory as polemecists claim. For some there is certainly Mary worship, but for some there is simply honor for Mary.
Considering they operate out of the same Bible for the most part, worship Jesus Christ and teach His death, burial, and resurrection it seems completely unfair to me to deny them a place in the Christian fold.
-
1
- Show all
If by Catholic you mean the church universal then yes, it is the oldest church. If you mean Rome, then no. Rome doesn't become distinct until much later. To say something is Roman Catholic is a contradiction. It can't be both Roman and Universal. It's either one or the other. The errors that Rome teaches develop over centuries with multiple streams of theology converging before something could truly be said to be Roman. Probably in the eleventh century at the latest in my opinion. Although error clearly shows up earlier its not as comprehensive as it is in the 11th century.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
I essentially agree with those who stayed that Catholicism as we know it today is not the oldest. It’s not the same as the “universal” (Catholic Church). But neither is any other denomination. All denominations that exist today did not exist in the first century. The Bible, and the church has changed several times. But that does not mean we can’t learn the truth and be a Christian. We can see elements that are core understandings from almost all denominations that can be traced back to the first century and the scriptures and likewise, we find things that dont. So I never worry about it to much. I just focus on what’s true and what’s righteous.
yes the oldest faith is the faith of Christ the faith of God by it Our Faithful Creator created the world . it has no beginning.
1 Peter 4:19Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
Catholicism has a different written book of law. the law of fathers (legion). Unlike the Christian book the law (sola scriptura) of one Father not seen . No man can serve two teaching masters . Sola scriptura makes the faith that comes from hearing the so called venerable fathers as a law of the legion of fathers .. . . to no effect...
They lord it over the faith of the non venerable pew sitters. As a law of their fathers they must seek the approval of men .or they will never get out of purgatory.
To me catholic is more danger than Hindu, we know hindu is not Christian. But some people think catholic is Christian.
Christian not believe in purgatory, Christian don't believe salvation by doing religious ritual etc.
Catholic is pretend to be Christian but is not.
Read jesuit oath and you know how satanic catholic is
http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/jesuitoath.html
Christian not believe in purgatory, Christian don't believe salvation by doing religious ritual etc.
Catholic is pretend to be Christian but is not.
Read jesuit oath and you know how satanic catholic is
http://www.alamoministries.com/content/english/Antichrist/jesuitoath.html
-
1
- Show all
That oath comes from a forger and is dubious at best.
Catholics certainly have mistaken doctrine, and you're right their soteriology is dodgy. But the anti-Catholic polemics such as claiming they're not Christian is more likely to cause division than to open eyes.
Their understanding of the sacraments isn't as simple as you seem to believe. The official catechisms teach that it is Jesus Christ and Christ alone that saves, but that His presence in the sacraments causes them to be efficacious. The acts themselves are hollow without His presence in them. Perhaps this is in error, but it is a far cry from being saved by religious ritual.
There's threads in protestantism that go to the opposite extreme and deny the value of Lord's supper and baptism, even some viewing water baptism as unbelief.
Ultimately they are mistaken on a multitude of doctrine but that's never going to be addressed by excluding them from the fold.
The case is different for groups like JWs and Mormons who deny essentials of the faith like Jesus' deity.
Catholics certainly have mistaken doctrine, and you're right their soteriology is dodgy. But the anti-Catholic polemics such as claiming they're not Christian is more likely to cause division than to open eyes.
Their understanding of the sacraments isn't as simple as you seem to believe. The official catechisms teach that it is Jesus Christ and Christ alone that saves, but that His presence in the sacraments causes them to be efficacious. The acts themselves are hollow without His presence in them. Perhaps this is in error, but it is a far cry from being saved by religious ritual.
There's threads in protestantism that go to the opposite extreme and deny the value of Lord's supper and baptism, even some viewing water baptism as unbelief.
Ultimately they are mistaken on a multitude of doctrine but that's never going to be addressed by excluding them from the fold.
The case is different for groups like JWs and Mormons who deny essentials of the faith like Jesus' deity.
This is what catholic say about muslim
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
Catholic and muslim adore the same God.
Muslim god is Allah
Some say catholic use this paragraph to prepare for one world government start with one world religion
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/1484...arns-of-vatican-push-for-one-world-government
841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
Catholic and muslim adore the same God.
Muslim god is Allah
Some say catholic use this paragraph to prepare for one world government start with one world religion
https://www.newsbreak.com/news/1484...arns-of-vatican-push-for-one-world-government
If I may speak from experience. I am an evangelical Christian and part of the time I was teaching was in two catholic schools. They were like chalk and cheese.
The first one was a high school in a tough area of town. The principal was a catholic layman. The students were a mixture. Some were good and some were not so good. I taught the senior VCE students. From day one I put my foot down and did not stand for any nonsense. It was plain sailing because the principal backed me up when an altercation arose. I gained their respect and one boy came to me and said he was suicidal. Fortunately, I was able to steer him away from that and he finished his education.
The school closed down and I was transferred to another catholic school in the next town run by a priest. it was a disaster. He was more interested in the rules being obeyed than outcomes. I had to uphold the Catholic ethos in the school but no one told me what it was. I taught senior classes again and one class wanted to nominate me for the teacher of the year. 90% of my students got 80+ marks.
That wasn't good enough for the priest. He wanted everyone to do things his way. Hr brushed me off when I pointed out the high marks my students were getting. In one subject there were two classes, mine being one. My class took the seven highest marks in comparison. Staff meetings were held in a room with computers down the front so I used to sit at one of those to make notes because I taught I.T. so it was second nature to do everything on the computer. He told me off for playing around on the computer and not listening. He obviously believed that you didn't take notes on a computer.
At the first school, the principal decided that the education of the students was the important thing. At the second school, the principal decided that his authority and the authority of the church was the important thing. In both schools, I got on well with the students and was able to relate to them on a level they understood.
From experience, it seems to me that the church is its own worse enemy.
The first one was a high school in a tough area of town. The principal was a catholic layman. The students were a mixture. Some were good and some were not so good. I taught the senior VCE students. From day one I put my foot down and did not stand for any nonsense. It was plain sailing because the principal backed me up when an altercation arose. I gained their respect and one boy came to me and said he was suicidal. Fortunately, I was able to steer him away from that and he finished his education.
The school closed down and I was transferred to another catholic school in the next town run by a priest. it was a disaster. He was more interested in the rules being obeyed than outcomes. I had to uphold the Catholic ethos in the school but no one told me what it was. I taught senior classes again and one class wanted to nominate me for the teacher of the year. 90% of my students got 80+ marks.
That wasn't good enough for the priest. He wanted everyone to do things his way. Hr brushed me off when I pointed out the high marks my students were getting. In one subject there were two classes, mine being one. My class took the seven highest marks in comparison. Staff meetings were held in a room with computers down the front so I used to sit at one of those to make notes because I taught I.T. so it was second nature to do everything on the computer. He told me off for playing around on the computer and not listening. He obviously believed that you didn't take notes on a computer.
At the first school, the principal decided that the education of the students was the important thing. At the second school, the principal decided that his authority and the authority of the church was the important thing. In both schools, I got on well with the students and was able to relate to them on a level they understood.
From experience, it seems to me that the church is its own worse enemy.
A very perceptive thought may I say. I have written a paper for a Ph.D. on the New Testament Church and its comparisons to the church today. During the writing of it, I contacted various denominational leaders to ask some questions. Basically, I was saying what you believe is not in scripture, so why do you believe that? The reply in ever case was "Yes but..." So they knew they were out of whack but they were not prepared to do anything about it.
Recently on another forum, the church was the subject of discussion. I was asked what church I went to and I replied "His Church" The response was "What is his church." They were wanting me to say Baptist, Methodist, Anglican or some other denomination.
My reply was "Where two or three are gathered together in his name, I am in the midst." So that could be a church that meets in a home, a cafe, a park, the beach, office, hospital, prison, a seat on a sidewalk, a car, on a gentle walk, in a boat, on a plane, in fact wherever two or three meet together for whatever reason.
Now what that means is that the world is my parish so the good news can go out anywhere and at any time. Jesus said to go into all the world and make disciples. Sad to say most Christians go into their dedicated church building once a week or maybe two and never meet the world.
The idea that the world is my oyster is a foreign concept to "the" church and for that reason, we are expected to have a relationship with the church, not the risen Christ.
Recently on another forum, the church was the subject of discussion. I was asked what church I went to and I replied "His Church" The response was "What is his church." They were wanting me to say Baptist, Methodist, Anglican or some other denomination.
My reply was "Where two or three are gathered together in his name, I am in the midst." So that could be a church that meets in a home, a cafe, a park, the beach, office, hospital, prison, a seat on a sidewalk, a car, on a gentle walk, in a boat, on a plane, in fact wherever two or three meet together for whatever reason.
Now what that means is that the world is my parish so the good news can go out anywhere and at any time. Jesus said to go into all the world and make disciples. Sad to say most Christians go into their dedicated church building once a week or maybe two and never meet the world.
The idea that the world is my oyster is a foreign concept to "the" church and for that reason, we are expected to have a relationship with the church, not the risen Christ.
-
1
- Show all
Allah just means God. God is not even gods name. It’s Yahweh. Christians, muslims, and jews all believe in the same God. However, they all believe he interacted with humanity differently. They all believe in the God of Abraham. They also all believe in a different God based off of the theology associated with him. But the same argument can be made about Methodists vs Church of Christ understanding of God or Baptist vs Pentecostal and so on .
Yes, I agree, I my self church goer, 2 or 3 time a week, but some of the teaching I am not agree. The good thing is the leader allow member of the bible study to say what part of the teaching they not agree and why.
Like what you say, we have to make every body His disciple, I use that spot to tell them why I believe that part of teaching not inline with the bible, up to them If they believe or not.
Example It happen today, the pastor say, people that Jesus mention in matt 7:21-23 was people that don't believe the Dirty of Jesus, they don't believe jesus is God, but every body that believe jesus God Will save.
Let read
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
The verse say
Not ... that say to me ( Jesus) Lord
So These people call Jesus God.
Not because we call Jesus God we save
James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Just believe that Jesus God not save you, believe His teaching and do the Will of the Father save you
Like what you say, we have to make every body His disciple, I use that spot to tell them why I believe that part of teaching not inline with the bible, up to them If they believe or not.
Example It happen today, the pastor say, people that Jesus mention in matt 7:21-23 was people that don't believe the Dirty of Jesus, they don't believe jesus is God, but every body that believe jesus God Will save.
Let read
21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
The verse say
Not ... that say to me ( Jesus) Lord
So These people call Jesus God.
Not because we call Jesus God we save
James 2:19
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Just believe that Jesus God not save you, believe His teaching and do the Will of the Father save you
-
1
- Show all
Catholic believe muslim God is catholic God
Muslim God say sun set in the mud dark water
Sun look like as big as foot Ball ball, so muslim God think every evening sun set in the dark water lake. Christian God is the creator of heaven and earth He know the sun not set in the dark water.
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness." -- Qur'an 18:86
Muslim God say sun set in the mud dark water
Sun look like as big as foot Ball ball, so muslim God think every evening sun set in the dark water lake. Christian God is the creator of heaven and earth He know the sun not set in the dark water.
Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it [as if] setting in a spring of dark mud, and he found near it a people. Allah said, "O Dhul-Qarnayn, either you punish [them] or else adopt among them [a way of] goodness." -- Qur'an 18:86
As we know the day will come when we will be under one religious order controlled by the false prophet under the direction of the Beast who will be its god. Therefore I am wary when anyone wants to enfold various religions into one as it sounds like it is facilitating the one world religion.
When all is said and done the basis of the Roman Catholic church is power, so I could see them wanting to form alliances in the hope that they are the top dog in the amalgamation.
Their lust for power is evident in their claim that they were the first and only genuine church so bow your knee and do as your told.
When all is said and done the basis of the Roman Catholic church is power, so I could see them wanting to form alliances in the hope that they are the top dog in the amalgamation.
Their lust for power is evident in their claim that they were the first and only genuine church so bow your knee and do as your told.
Yes, we able to see what is RCC want, to rule the world.
I hear a person that investigate about catholic for more then 30 years
He Said,
Catholic believe pope represent Jesus
Jesus is the King of King. King that rule all the world
So pope as His representative must rule the whole world
That is why jesuit oath so scary.
I hear a person that investigate about catholic for more then 30 years
He Said,
Catholic believe pope represent Jesus
Jesus is the King of King. King that rule all the world
So pope as His representative must rule the whole world
That is why jesuit oath so scary.
-
1
- Show all