Chosen by God - A study in Election
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You're defending the doctrine of unconditional election, so you agree with at least 1 point of Calvinism. Unconditional election requires that God's grace be irresistable to those who are elect, so there's two points. I think I'm safe to believe that you agree with the proposition that Jesus paid the entire price for sin, so if His grace is irresistable and He is unconditionally selecting the atonement must have been limited only to the elect. So there's 3 points. And of course, unconditional election rests on total inability and you have implied in the thread that man is unable to have saving grace so there's 4 points. Now if all 4 of those are true, then God cannot possibly not save those intended so there's point 5. So in defending election as you have formulated to be logically consistent the other 4 are necessary. So why do you deny being a Calvinist?
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EleventhHour
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Considering he seems reasonably intelligent I can only surmise that it's a matter of integrity rather than a matter of comprehension. Which is fitting given the moral ambiguity of the idol he presents.
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EleventhHour
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All tenets of Calvinism are outside of scripture.. seems silly to say they are not Calvinists when they peddle his dogma.
They listen to teachers of Calvinism so yes they are Calvinists.
I wouldn't quite go that far, there is a genuine dichotomy going on and some who read the Bible can genuinely take away Calvinistic leanings.
The biggest issue is that many take those interpretations and mistake them for what the Bible actually says rather than preserving the tension between God's sovereign choice of individuals and the individual's choice to heed God. Both are in the text, and God's choice in no way diminished the genuineness of man's choice.
Speaking of intelligence, please give answer to what our Lord is teaching here:
Mar 8:29 And he asked them, But who say ye that I am? Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
Mar 8:30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.
Why was our Lord hiding from others who He was?
Mar 9:9 And as they were coming down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, save when the Son of man should have risen again from the dead.
Again, why is the Lord hiding what they had seen?
Luke 8:55 And her spirit returned, and she rose up immediately: and he commanded that something be given her to eat.
Luke 8:56 And her parents were amazed: but he charged them to tell no man what had been done.
And yet again?
Finally, what was the Lord teaching here?
John_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.
John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him.
John_6:65 And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.
Mar 8:29 And he asked them, But who say ye that I am? Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.
Mar 8:30 And he charged them that they should tell no man of him.
Why was our Lord hiding from others who He was?
Mar 9:9 And as they were coming down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, save when the Son of man should have risen again from the dead.
Again, why is the Lord hiding what they had seen?
Luke 8:55 And her spirit returned, and she rose up immediately: and he commanded that something be given her to eat.
Luke 8:56 And her parents were amazed: but he charged them to tell no man what had been done.
And yet again?
Finally, what was the Lord teaching here?
John_6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.
John 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who it was that should betray him.
John_6:65 And he said, For this cause have I said unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it be given unto him of the Father.
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EleventhHour
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I do not see a dichotomy when it comes to the process of salvation...but perhaps you can explain.
His time had not yet come
And yet again: His time had not yet come
I do give you credit here sir, for recognizing the difficulty of the argument. However you seem to think Free Grace somehow diminishes God. It is man's fallen state which is to be blamed for his inability to hear the Gospel and react, not God. God does no harm in passing by others and not giving them the ability to hear and understand.
Though fallen humanity, outside of Election, cries out "That is not fair!" This does not make God any less Righteous. Even the president of the United States has the right to Pardon who he wills. He dose not have to Pardon everyone, in order to Pardon a few.
The dichotomy is in all things not just salvation. God's sovereignty is complete, meaning that in some sense everything that happens God wills to happen even if it is simply an allowance. If this were not so He could not work all things to our good. But at the same time man has sovereignty over his own decisions, they genuinely belong to him and he is responsible for them. So for all of our decisions there is a component that God chose to allow it and a component of human will.
His time had not yet come
And yet again: His time had not yet come
But my point is, the Lord hid things from those He did not want to understand. This was done so that Israel would not make him King. Therefore, the prophecies of His Death, Burial and Resurrection, His Redemptive work could take place. Those who deny Predestination, try to make out like the Lord does not hide things from humanity. They deny, that God has allowed the veil of Moses to remain over National Israel. That He darkens the mind and so forth.
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EleventhHour
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