What works will be accepted at the "Judgement Seat Of Christ?" Why was the unprofitable servant cast into the outer darkness (Matthew 25: 14-30)?
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S
Since it is taking time for my post to get approved, I will reply to you now and continue in the new thread when it is approved.
I don't think these verses settles the debate simply because they include both words. For example consider the following:
Luke 10:27
And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind,.”
Does this mean we are quadpartite or four parts? These are four words. Are they expressing four parts to man? If you allow them to be parallelism expression such as heart and soul and mind and strength referencing the inner man, why not soul and spirit and thoughts and intent also an expression of the inner man and not meant to declare a man 3 parts?
I don't think these verses settles the debate simply because they include both words. For example consider the following:
Luke 10:27
And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind,.”
Does this mean we are quadpartite or four parts? These are four words. Are they expressing four parts to man? If you allow them to be parallelism expression such as heart and soul and mind and strength referencing the inner man, why not soul and spirit and thoughts and intent also an expression of the inner man and not meant to declare a man 3 parts?
Based on the point I was making, when you read a scripture like the one you provided above which mentions only the word 'souls,' it does not do away with the other scriptures which identify spirit and soul as being independent of each other. Some scriptures use spirit and others use soul. But when you have scriptures that identify them as being independent of each other, then you have to make your conclusion based on this. You can't undo what scripture is teaching. Below is another scripture which uses only the word 'souls,' however, that does not mean that their spirits are not included as well. As I said, though the soul and spirit are intertwined, they are separate. This is what Hebrews 4:12 and I Thess.5:23 are in fact teaching.
"And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”
Just because only the world 'souls' appears in the scripture, it does not do away with their spirits. Therefore, when we read a scripture which uses one or the other, from the other scriptures we must remember that the spirit is also part of their make up.
When you have spirit and soul independently used in the scripture, then they cannot be referring to the same thing. The word 'and' as in soul 'and' spirit, demonstrated that they are independent of each other. That they are independent of each other is what Paul was demonstrating when he said "the dividing of soul and spirit."
"And when the Lamb opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the testimony they had upheld. And they cried out in a loud voice, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You avenge our blood and judge those who dwell upon the earth?”
Just because only the world 'souls' appears in the scripture, it does not do away with their spirits. Therefore, when we read a scripture which uses one or the other, from the other scriptures we must remember that the spirit is also part of their make up.
When you have spirit and soul independently used in the scripture, then they cannot be referring to the same thing. The word 'and' as in soul 'and' spirit, demonstrated that they are independent of each other. That they are independent of each other is what Paul was demonstrating when he said "the dividing of soul and spirit."
S
I lean toward a bipartite (dichotomy) anthropological view of man myself. I think that it is obvious that scripture often uses the word spirit and soul interchangeably and when they are both mentioned it is nothing more than parallelism and repetition simply a way of saying the whole of man.
I see no significant separation intended in saying spirit and soul. It is just an parallelism expression of that inner spiritual man whether you call it soul or spirit.
For example when he says you should love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength does he intend to teach that we are a 4 part human anthropology? What would that be called anyway? quadrapartite? Quadchotomy?
Obviously it is expressive of all that make up our being from our perspectives and includes our whole person.
I have often suspected that way too much is being taught on the difference between Spirit and Soul that cannot be proven from scripture as to where one stops and the other begins. It just seems like speculative conjecture and not what the text intended. When two teachers present different views as to the definition of soul and spirit neither can authoritatively prove which one is correct as both are guesses. Would someone attempt to define the difference between heart, soul, and mind he would contradict himself as he had already taught that the mind was the soul. Is the heart the spirit? Who determines who is correct. Which category does strength fit into? Is it body? Is is determination? Is the emotions, the heart or the mind, or the soul? I think the author would say "that was not the point, it was a way of expressing all that we are should be devoted to serving and Loving God."
For this reason I have rejected most books and teachings I have heard on these differences that make up soul and spirit. If there is an intended difference in select texts it would be similar to the one I mentioned about Loving God with all your heart, and all your soul, and all your mind, and etc... these individual parts are expressions of whatever we call them, love God with everything that makes up your conscious being.
I see no significant separation intended in saying spirit and soul. It is just an parallelism expression of that inner spiritual man whether you call it soul or spirit.
For example when he says you should love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength does he intend to teach that we are a 4 part human anthropology? What would that be called anyway? quadrapartite? Quadchotomy?
Obviously it is expressive of all that make up our being from our perspectives and includes our whole person.I have often suspected that way too much is being taught on the difference between Spirit and Soul that cannot be proven from scripture as to where one stops and the other begins. It just seems like speculative conjecture and not what the text intended. When two teachers present different views as to the definition of soul and spirit neither can authoritatively prove which one is correct as both are guesses. Would someone attempt to define the difference between heart, soul, and mind he would contradict himself as he had already taught that the mind was the soul. Is the heart the spirit? Who determines who is correct. Which category does strength fit into? Is it body? Is is determination? Is the emotions, the heart or the mind, or the soul? I think the author would say "that was not the point, it was a way of expressing all that we are should be devoted to serving and Loving God."
For this reason I have rejected most books and teachings I have heard on these differences that make up soul and spirit. If there is an intended difference in select texts it would be similar to the one I mentioned about Loving God with all your heart, and all your soul, and all your mind, and etc... these individual parts are expressions of whatever we call them, love God with everything that makes up your conscious being.
Good day, Pilgrimshope!
Soul
Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.
HELPS Word-studies
5590 psyxḗ (from psyxō, "to breathe, blow" which is the root of the English words "psyche," "psychology") – soul (psyche); a person's distinct identity (unique personhood), i.e. individual personality.
5590 (psyxē) corresponds exactly to the OT 5315 /phágō ("soul"). The soul is the direct aftermath of God breathing (blowing) His gift of life into a person, making them an ensouled being.
Spirit
Strong's Concordance
pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Definition: wind, spirit
Usage: wind, breath, spirit.
HELPS Word-studies
4151 pneúma – properly, spirit (Spirit), wind, or breath. The most frequent meaning (translation) of 4151 (pneúma) in the NT is "spirit" ("Spirit"). Only the context however determines which sense(s) is meant.
[Any of the above renderings (spirit-Spirit, wind, breath) of 4151 (pneúma) is always theoretically possible (spirit, Spirit, wind, breath). But when the attributive adjective ("holy") is used, it always refers to the Holy Spirit. "Spirit" ("spirit") is by far the most common translation (application) of 4151 (pneúma).
The Hebrew counterpart (rûach) has the same range of meaning as 4151 (pneúma), i.e. it likewise can refer to spirit/Spirit, wind, or breath.]
The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the immaterial part of humanity that connects with God. And the spirit and the soul are contained within the body.
Soul
Strong's Concordance
psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.
HELPS Word-studies
5590 psyxḗ (from psyxō, "to breathe, blow" which is the root of the English words "psyche," "psychology") – soul (psyche); a person's distinct identity (unique personhood), i.e. individual personality.
5590 (psyxē) corresponds exactly to the OT 5315 /phágō ("soul"). The soul is the direct aftermath of God breathing (blowing) His gift of life into a person, making them an ensouled being.
Spirit
Strong's Concordance
pneuma: wind, spirit
Original Word: πνεῦμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: pneuma
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo'-mah)
Definition: wind, spirit
Usage: wind, breath, spirit.
HELPS Word-studies
4151 pneúma – properly, spirit (Spirit), wind, or breath. The most frequent meaning (translation) of 4151 (pneúma) in the NT is "spirit" ("Spirit"). Only the context however determines which sense(s) is meant.
[Any of the above renderings (spirit-Spirit, wind, breath) of 4151 (pneúma) is always theoretically possible (spirit, Spirit, wind, breath). But when the attributive adjective ("holy") is used, it always refers to the Holy Spirit. "Spirit" ("spirit") is by far the most common translation (application) of 4151 (pneúma).
The Hebrew counterpart (rûach) has the same range of meaning as 4151 (pneúma), i.e. it likewise can refer to spirit/Spirit, wind, or breath.]
The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the immaterial part of humanity that connects with God. And the spirit and the soul are contained within the body.
Below is an example of separation of soul and spirit.
"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
If the soul and spirit were the same, i.e. two different words referring to the same thing, then they couldn't be divided.
"For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
If the soul and spirit were the same, i.e. two different words referring to the same thing, then they couldn't be divided.
S
I would also suggest a lecture by Wayne Grudem. He was the chief editor for the ESV translation and author of well known Systematic Theology books used in seminaries. He does a great job of presenting scriptures on soul and spirit and presents the many verses with their context and, original languages and I think you will enjoy this lecture.
http://archive.scottsdalebible.com/assets/audio/christian-essentials/20070415WGrudem.mp3
http://archive.scottsdalebible.com/assets/audio/christian-essentials/20070415WGrudem.mp3
With all due respect, I don't need to read anything by anyone else, as I have been doing my own personal studies in the word of God for over 45 years. I can read and discern for myself. Those two scriptures that I provided say all that has to be said about the makeup of mankind as being body, soul and spirit.
I will not continue to comment on this issue any further because I have already scripturally proven this point. (Hebs.4:12, I Thess.5:23)
Any scripture that uses just the word soul, is describing man's entire makeup, which includes the spirit, yet each being independent essences of mankind.
I will not continue to comment on this issue any further because I have already scripturally proven this point. (Hebs.4:12, I Thess.5:23)
Any scripture that uses just the word soul, is describing man's entire makeup, which includes the spirit, yet each being independent essences of mankind.
S
Well that is unfortunate because if you were open to read from other theologians such as those that know the original languages in their contexts, they are saying that no one in the Scholarly academic world has made an argument for the tripartate (trichotomy) in the last hundred years! There is a reason for that. I will post in the thread I started for all those others who are interested in discussing it as I expect it to be an edifying thread for the future.
There is a reason for that. I will post in the thread I started for all those others who are interested in discussing it as I expect it to be an edifying thread for the future.
“ you can’t undo what scripture is teaching is my point . when I learn that God created man he. made a mans body and then breathed a living spirit into the body and says “ man became a living soul “
I don’t then later think I figured out a secret why that’s not correct because it’s so plainly there . So then my point is of one doesn’t our think that , the New Testament being politely about flesh and spirit and having the soul saved , were given a new one of both or sort of isn’t so complex .
But that’s just me again a simple idiot you seem Very intelligent to be honest maybe I’m not there yet. I’m just personally not seeing it . But I possibly will come to your conclusion at some time In the future
I’m a high school drop out who ended up in community college bro haha lucky I can read but truly I’m not saying your wrong just presenting my own thought after a quick study .
that being said bro I’m actually saying to you maybe you’ve studied and figured out something I haven’t I haven’t really dedicated my life to this subject and claim no authority on it . I just started a study because of what you said and I do not see what you are saying is all I’m trying to communicate
I don’t then later think I figured out a secret why that’s not correct because it’s so plainly there . So then my point is of one doesn’t our think that , the New Testament being politely about flesh and spirit and having the soul saved , were given a new one of both or sort of isn’t so complex .
But that’s just me again a simple idiot you seem Very intelligent to be honest maybe I’m not there yet. I’m just personally not seeing it . But I possibly will come to your conclusion at some time In the future
I’m a high school drop out who ended up in community college bro haha lucky I can read but truly I’m not saying your wrong just presenting my own thought after a quick study .
that being said bro I’m actually saying to you maybe you’ve studied and figured out something I haven’t I haven’t really dedicated my life to this subject and claim no authority on it . I just started a study because of what you said and I do not see what you are saying is all I’m trying to communicate
