Chosen by God - A study in Election
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Impossible if they are not elect. The gospel becomes a lie.
That is Gods problem. It is definitely not our problem....we are commanded to preach the gospel to every living creature. The problem with Christian philosophers is that they simply do not know their place in the scheme of things.
Go ahead and read Romans 9 over over and over again. That's all I really have to say on the matter.
Not good enough. A lie is a lie. In your theology, preaching the gospel can become a lie. And you say that’s God’s problem? Wow!
We are to preach to all men.
Those who are elect are God's business .
We are not lying when we tell them God saves sinners who believe .
Sounds as if you men do not understand what the gospel is.
On the road to Damascus Paul wasn't repenting he was not asking Jesus to forgive him. He was carrying a letter he obtained to arrest Christians and was in full denial that Jesus was the Christ. That's the frame of mind Saul of Tarsus was in when the Lord appeared to him that day on the road which is different in regard that he(Jesus) loved him while he was in full denial of Jesus and bent on the arrest of Christians. I thought I would point that out because it's so different from what most of us would think would be the case.
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EleventhHour
Guest
You actually are... to be honest you would need to state.. "God saves His chosen sinners."
I explain to sinners God has elected a multitude of sinners .
The Father has given them to the Son.All of them are going to come to Jesus.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Amen. I see nowhere in the text Abraham was forced to believe.
The same for every other person who was saved throughout history, is presently saved and will be saved in the future.... they believed
God.
Let me clarify your position here. Are you saying that fulfilling the Great Commission and preaching the gospel is a lie? Are you saying that election is a lie? What exactly are you saying?
Because you have a problem. Election is boilerplate doctrine. Ironclad bombproof. It is literally everywhere in the Bible stated over and over and over again. And preaching the gospel and the Great Commission is what we do, there is no choice in the matter. Maybe you can't connect the two in your mind..........but that hardly matters.
Oh I don't know about that. I'm not going to say that anyone is forced to believe. But there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that when Gods will is exerted on the earth and he wants to have something accomplished it's going to be accomplished and that includes choosing men out of the world for his beloved Son.
Furthermore Scripture is quite clear that Isaiah Jeremiah John the Baptist and Paul ordained for service (and salvation) long before they were ever born.
Romans 9:11 sink in....
for they not yet having been born nor having done anything good or evil, so that the purpose of God according to election might stand,
Yes you read that correctly "not yet having been born". A theme resounding over and over and over again in the New Testament. I mean it is everywhere.
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EleventhHour
Guest
Amen again...
Repeat... CONSCIENCE decision to accept and believe it must come to pass for one to be saved!
And no where in scripture do we read regeneration preceding belief.
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit…”
Ephesians 1:13
They never want to deal with all the scripture which refutes Calvinism.
Not only not dealing with the Scripture that refutes Calvinism, they refuse to engage in honest discussion of what most of their proof texts mean in context.
It's a pernicious system because it's easy to rip a handful of verses out of context and camp on them, and then add in a bunch of other texts that ambiguously could be read that way if the doctrine are accepted first to make it look super Biblical and then not engage with critics unless they can philosophize about "harmonizing" by which they mean twisting to suit the doctrine.
Actually taking the time to properly speak of the context and nuance of the Bible is far more difficult than adopting a soundbyte theology like Calvinism.
On the Cross,,in the first century AD,,the same place Paul,and Peter or me or anyone else was saved,even you. That's when and where we/you were saved. No one is saved because they said something or did something during their lives,they were trying to do or say something because they don't realize/believe that they were saved by Christ on the Cross (denying it without realizing they are).
So since they don't realize that he saved them(on the Cross) they say things like "I was saved when I was 18" and attribute it to an act that happened during their lifetime. Think through what I'm saying because I'm not asking you "have you been saved yet?" I'm instead trying to explain to you that you are and that you were saved on the Cross by Jesus blood and hoping it dawns on your mind .
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