Chosen by God - A study in Election

[ForestGreenCook]

Romans 8:9-11

You,however ,are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit,if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you.
And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ,they do not belong to Christ.
But if Christ is in you,then even though your body is subject to death because of sin,the Spirit gives life because of righteousness .
And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you,he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you.




Anyone who is truly born again,will know that the Spirit of God lives in them.

It is true, that I recognized the evidence that I was born of the Spirit, but I do not remember experiencing the new birth. I believe that I must have been very young, because of recognizing the evidence.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Except if the only difference between the saved and the damned is God's sovereign decree they have no power to not dismiss it. God has already chosen them for damnation through choosing not to save them. So what benefit is the gospel to them since if they believe it to be true it does nothing but torture them early since they have no ability to change their fate according to Calvinists.

It is not the true God I malign with my accusations but the idol present within the theological system known as Calvinism.

Your mistake is in thinking that the natural man can even think the gospel to be true, when he cannot discern any wording of the gospel, and thinks it to be foolishness. The natural man has no desire to be spiritual, until God quickens him with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Yes, but He does not determine everything that comes to pass. That would be fatalism.

But he does know about it beforehand.

 

[jackrosie]

Some of God's children get confused with the function of BEING BORN AGAIN, and being CONVERTED. When we are born again, it comes to most as unnoticed. Jesus explained it to Nicodemus in John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whether it goeth, so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

As for myself, I do not remember when I was born of the Spirit, but my conversion was like the 4th of July"s explosion of fireworks. When the Holy Spirit opened up my knowledge of the scriptures as to what Christ had actually done for me, and imputing his righteousness unto me. I was so excited, I just about drove everyone around me crazy, trying to tell them how simple it was to understand, knowing, full well. that if the Holy Spirit within them does not reveal the knowledge to them, my words would fall on deaf ears.

To my understanding of the scriptures, conversion always follows being born again. of the Spirit.

I believe that Paul was already born again when he was persecuting christians, in all good conscience, before his conversion took place, on the road to Damascus. Paul had already had his stony heart replaced with a fleshy heart that Jesus said that he was kicking against HIS PRICKS.

The stony heart cannot be PRICKED, instead the Jews with the stony heart were CUT TO THE HEART, and stoned Steven to death.

Lovely testimony FGC....I remember being born again,like it were only yesterday,it was completely unexpected and blew my mind.

My family thought I had gone mad!......they just couldn’t understand it,but the Lord led me to a community centre,where Kings Church was held every week.

I joined that body of Christ and it was wonderful that I could fellowship with my brothers and sisters in Christ........who knew exactly what I had received.....Praise God for that.

 

[cv5]

Some of God's children get confused with the function of BEING BORN AGAIN, and being CONVERTED. When we are born again, it comes to most as unnoticed. Jesus explained it to Nicodemus in John 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whether it goeth, so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

As for myself, I do not remember when I was born of the Spirit, but my conversion was like the 4th of July"s explosion of fireworks. When the Holy Spirit opened up my knowledge of the scriptures as to what Christ had actually done for me, and imputing his righteousness unto me. I was so excited, I just about drove everyone around me crazy, trying to tell them how simple it was to understand, knowing, full well. that if the Holy Spirit within them does not reveal the knowledge to them, my words would fall on deaf ears.

To my understanding of the scriptures, conversion always follows being born again. of the Spirit.

I believe that Paul was already born again when he was persecuting christians, in all good conscience, before his conversion took place, on the road to Damascus. Paul had already had his stony heart replaced with a fleshy heart that Jesus said that he was kicking against HIS PRICKS.

The stony heart cannot be PRICKED, instead the Jews with the stony heart were CUT TO THE HEART, and stoned Steven to death.

In my opinion Paul was elect from eternity past. He of course did not know this nor did anyone else. After his CALL was enunciated by Jesus Himself on the Emmaus road, he then he returned to Damascus and the Holy Spirit applied and confirmed his election by regeneration by being baptized by Ananias. That seems like the most plausible scenario.

Gal 1:15
But when God, the One having selected me from my mother's womb and having called me by His grace, was pleased

 

[ForestGreenCook]

That's a different statement than unconditional election. The issue is if man is allowed to choose, what stops those not elected from choosing to believe the gospel? Does God then become a liar not saving all those who believe and confess, or does the one who chooses to believe somehow override God's sovereign election?

You have no clue of what defines the natural man.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

In my opinion Paul was elect from eternity past. He of course did not know this nor did anyone else. After his CALL was enunciated by Jesus Himself on the Emmaus road, he then he returned to Damascus and the Holy Spirit applied and confirmed his election by regeneration by being baptized by Ananias. That seems like the most plausible scenario.

Gal 1:15
But when God, the One having selected me from my mother's womb and having called me by His grace, was pleased

The scriptures will not uphold the fact that baptism equates regeneration.

 

[John146]

But he does know about it beforehand.

Did God know Nineveh was going to repent and He in turn would not destroy them? Careful, don’t make God out to be a liar.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Were Jews saved through faith as individuals or as a nation?

God choose The nation of Israel as his favored Nation, But all Israel is not of Israel God changed Jacob's name to henceforth to be called Israel.(Gen 33:28). God choose Jacob/Israel to represent


god's elect (Rom 9:11-13.) Jacob/Israel is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation. (Rev 5:9).

 

[cv5]

The scriptures will not uphold the fact that baptism equates regeneration.

That's not what I'm saying. I am simply postulating a specific point or juncture in time, my best guess being at the point in time and place where he was baptized by Ananias. I am only saying it seems like the most plausible scenario.

 

[Scribe]

If you were chosen and someone else was not, no implication needed... it is a straight connection............. you rejoice in God's favoritism towards you over someone else.

 

[cv5]

If you were chosen and someone else was not, no implication needed... it is a straight connection............. you rejoice in God's favoritism towards you over someone else.

Not at all. Since no one knows who are the elect until their conversion, we pray for all souls that they would receive the Lord Jesus.

 

[John146]

Not at all. Since no one knows who are the elect until their conversion, we pray for all souls that they would receive the Lord Jesus.

How do you preach the gospel to someone? If they are not elect, wouldn’t you be lying to them?

 

[Bbrdrd]

Your mistake is in thinking that the natural man can even think the gospel to be true, when he cannot discern any wording of the gospel, and thinks it to be foolishness. The natural man has no desire to be spiritual, until God quickens him with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I'm well aware of Calvinist teaching on inability.

The problem with that is you make God's justice beneaths mans and make Him a liar when He speaks of desiring mercy. Human beings recognize that it is injust to hold someone culpable for not doing something they lack the capacity to do. Yet you accuse God of having a lesser sense of justice than a common man and think that somehow brings Him glory.

 

[cv5]

How do you preach the gospel to someone? If they are not elect, wouldn’t you be lying to them?

I am sorry but your question makes no sense at all, for the following reasons:

We are commanded to faithfully and fully engage in the Great Commission.
This serves two purposes: redeeming the elect in warning the world of judgment and wrath.

You completely lost me when you're saying that we are lying to them in fulfilling our obligation to the fulfilling the Great Commission. How in the world can the gospel EVER be a lie?

 

[cv5]

I'm well aware of Calvinist teaching on inability.

The problem with that is you make God's justice beneaths mans and make Him a liar when He speaks of desiring mercy. Human beings recognize that it is injust to hold someone culpable for not doing something they lack the capacity to do. Yet you accuse God of having a lesser sense of justice than a common man and think that somehow brings Him glory.

That's not what the Bible says. God Himself says man's justice is beneath His and we are liars and He is not. Contrary opinions mean nothing.

 

[Bbrdrd]

That's not what the Bible says. God Himself says man's justice is beneath His and we are liars and He is not. Contrary opinions mean nothing.

I'm well aware God's justice is much greater than man's. The problem is that the doctrine forwarded by men of total inability puts God's justice beneath man's by the standards God set out in the Bible and it makes God both a hypocrite and liar for not extending the mercy He states He desires. Which demonstrates that Calvinist soteriology is patently unBiblical and robs God of His true glory rather than emphasizing it.

 

[John146]

I am sorry but your question makes no sense at all, for the following reasons:

We are commanded to faithfully and fully engage in the Great Commission.
This serves two purposes: redeeming the elect in warning the world of judgment and wrath.

You completely lost me when you're saying that we are lying to them in fulfilling our obligation to the fulfilling the Great Commission. How in the world can the gospel EVER be a lie?

If you tell someone that Christ died for them and they can believe the gospel and be saved, and they are not “elect” then you lied to them.

 

[cv5]

I'm well aware of Calvinist teaching on inability.

The problem with that is you make God's justice beneaths mans and make Him a liar when He speaks of desiring mercy. Human beings recognize that it is injust to hold someone culpable for not doing something they lack the capacity to do. Yet you accuse God of having a lesser sense of justice than a common man and think that somehow brings Him glory.

You assume Gods justice has to make sense........to us. According to Paul it does not necessarily have to. Paul lays to rest the question of Gods justice and mercy in Rom 9 and elsewhere. Does it make perfect sense? Maybe maybe not....to us. But it definitely makes perfect sense to God. After all he was the one who wrote about it via Paul and is dispensing it according to His divine will and eternal purposes.

 

[cv5]

I'm well aware God's justice is much greater than man's. The problem is that the doctrine forwarded by men of total inability puts God's justice beneath man's by the standards God set out in the Bible and it makes God both a hypocrite and liar for not extending the mercy He states He desires. Which demonstrates that Calvinist soteriology is patently unBiblical and robs God of His true glory rather than emphasizing it.

That may be your opinion but that is not what the Bible says.