Chosen by God - A study in Election

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Iconoclast said:
sure it does, but you want your error instead. it flat out says God is not the author of sin, which you profanely suggest. No Calvinists say such a thing. Show any Calvinist who says God is the author of sin, you cannot because no Calvinist would do that.
I think you do not understand the phrase about secondary causes.
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I am well aware no Calvinist would outright say it, but if even man's will is subject to God's sovereignty entirely with no ability to deviate then there are no secondary causes. Only God causing everything.

The contradiction is plain, unless you can restate statement 2 in such a way that it's not exclusive from statement 1 and 3 since that's your escape statement. But they cannot all be true together.
 
Bbrdrd said:
I am well aware no Calvinist would outright say it, but if even man's will is subject to God's sovereignty entirely with no ability to deviate then there are no secondary causes. Only God causing everything.

The contradiction is plain, unless you can restate statement 2 in such a way that it's not exclusive from statement 1 and 3 since that's your escape statement. But they cannot all be true together.
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Everything? Let's limit ourselves to the new birth aka Salvation. God Himself alone is the One causing that to happen. That's what the Bible says.
 
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cv5 said:
Everything? Let's limit ourselves to the new birth aka Salvation. God Himself alone is the One causing that to happen. That's what the Bible says.
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That's a different statement than unconditional election. The issue is if man is allowed to choose, what stops those not elected from choosing to believe the gospel? Does God then become a liar not saving all those who believe and confess, or does the one who chooses to believe somehow override God's sovereign election?
 
Bbrdrd said:
That's a different statement than unconditional election. The issue is if man is allowed to choose, what stops those not elected from choosing to believe the gospel? Does God then become a liar not saving all those who believe and confess, or does the one who chooses to believe somehow override God's sovereign election?
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Oh brother. Four words: It's not about us.

It's about God choosing a bride for his beloved Son. We rejoice in that we have been chosen, nothing more nothing less.
 
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cv5 said:
Oh brother. Four words: It's not about us.

It's about God choosing a bride for his beloved Son. We rejoice in that we have been chosen, nothing more nothing less.
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What has that to do with my question? What's stopping someone who is not among the elect from believing the gospel?
 
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dcontroversal said:
I twisted nothing pal.....I read clearly what you said to John's post....that is one thing with you Calvin followers....you skew, then deny it, and then try to pass the buck....Zero honesty and or integrity!
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I see the "I got saved without the word of God" Calvin follower gave me a Red X.....funny how she is still allowed to post on this site after our last exchange.....!!
 
Bbrdrd said:
Point 1 is God decreed everything, point 2 is God decreed nothing but foreknew everything, and point 3 is God decreed specific things. One of these 3 is not like the other, and all 3 cannot be true at the same time.

Pure cognitive dissonance that you can make such a statement and not recognize that it is internally contradictory.
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Calvinites contradict themselves incessantly.....I really like it when they claim being saved without the word of God being proclaimed first!
 
dcontroversal said:
I see the "I got saved without the word of God" Calvin follower gave me a Red X.....funny how she is still allowed to post on this site after our last exchange.....!!
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What has that got to do with the topic in hand?

Stop kicking your toys out of the pram,because you got a red X from me,because let’s be honest,that’s who you are referring to.

Now can you please stick to the topic and stop sowing discord...on this thread.

I got saved by God and it was irresistible,because he willed it,not me!....if you have a problem with that,take it up with God!.

Now let members discuss in peace and keep your derogatory remarks to yourself.
 
Iconoclast said:
Another post devoid of any knowledge of God's covenant of redemption.
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You’ve been indoctrinated by a false
Iconoclast said:
Can you read the link with understanding???
Which part of this do you not understand???
Iconoclast said:
Break it down line by line, slowly...they took months to compose these statements with the verses. It is not a readers digest version. I and others will help you if any portion does not seem clear...
like this;
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity,

by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will,

freely and unchangeably,

all things,

whatsoever comes to pass;

yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;

nor is violence offered to the will of the creature,

nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away,

but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 2
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I totally understand it, I just don’t agree. I see these statements as talking out both sides of the mouth.
 
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cv5 said:
Oh brother. Four words: It's not about us.

It's about God choosing a bride for his beloved Son. We rejoice in that we have been chosen, nothing more nothing less.
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You rejoice that you were chosen and others were NOT.......do you see this in Jesus when you read the Scripture?

The elitism of Calvinism is truly beyond belief... and people here agreed with your post...how lost in false dogma can a person to denigrate God to a God of favorites.
 
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EleventhHour said:
You rejoice that you were chosen and others were NOT.......do you see this in Jesus when you read the Scripture?

The elitism of Calvinism is truly beyond belief... and people here agreed with your post...how lost in false dogma can a person to denigrate God to a God of favorites.
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That's not what I said. I in no way implied that anyone is rejoicing because of any that are not chosen. On the contrary the Bible says just the opposite.
 
EleventhHour said:
You rejoice that you were chosen and others were NOT.......do you see this in Jesus when you read the Scripture?

The elitism of Calvinism is truly beyond belief... and people here agreed with your post...how lost in false dogma can a person to denigrate God to a God of favorites.
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You seem to rejoice in telling some members,that they must read their bible or they aren’t saved.


Errr No,I had heard of Jesus at school and from a few others,who tried to push it down my throat as a non believer.

So your false doctrine has no standing....because I am still waiting for that scripture.

You Must Read Your Bible.....if you want God to Save you........False!

God chose me and he willed me to be saved!
 
EleventhHour said:
You rejoice that you were chosen and others were NOT.......do you see this in Jesus when you read the Scripture?

The elitism of Calvinism is truly beyond belief... and people here agreed with your post...how lost in false dogma can a person to denigrate God to a God of favorites.
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Simple question: Did god choose Israel as His nation yes or no?
 
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