Chosen by God - A study in Election

[dcontroversal]

No one said that. It is a wicked twisting of what was posted clearly...can you not help yourself from doing this???
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

I twisted nothing pal.....I read clearly what you said to John's post....that is one thing with you Calvin followers....you skew, then deny it, and then try to pass the buck....Zero honesty and or integrity!

 

[John146]

No one said that. It is a wicked twisting of what was posted clearly...can you not help yourself from doing this???
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

Your copy and paste jobs are really hard to understand. Just saying.

 

[dcontroversal]

Another stupid post...I know God in love has Decreed whatsoever comes to pass.Scripture has been offered and you go you your usual personal attack, without dealing with the scripture.

Yawn........nothing to say like normal.....just blather!

 

[Iconoclast]

Says your Calvin institute where you get your info from.

No...if I quote Calvin I will let you know...
I go to scripture which no of you men can handle evidently as many verses are offered and then we hear crickets chirping
You once again ignore what was offered. I understand, not one of you can address the verses without looking foolish.

 

[dcontroversal]

But elect is not referring to salvation but service. One has to be saved to be elected for service.

No disagree.....elect is descriptive!

 

[Iconoclast]

Your copy and paste jobs are really hard to understand. Just saying.

Break it down line by line, slowly...they took months to compose these statements with the verses. It is not a readers digest version. I and others will help you if any portion does not seem clear...
like this;
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity,

by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will,

freely and unchangeably,

all things,

whatsoever comes to pass;

yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;

nor is violence offered to the will of the creature,

nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away,

but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5

 

[Iconoclast]

Yawn........nothing to say like normal.....just blather!

Dream on little boy...did your parents give you permission to use their computer. You cannot deal with any of it.

 

[John146]

Break it down line by line, slowly...they took months to compose these statements with the verses. It is not a readers digest version. I and others will help you if any portion does not seem clear...
like this;
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity,

by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will,

freely and unchangeably,

all things,

whatsoever comes to pass;

yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;

nor is violence offered to the will of the creature,

nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away,

but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5

So you agree God is the author of sin? When you sin, God decreed it?

 

[Iconoclast]

The so called "sovereign choice" was for the promise seed line of Christ. That's why He chose Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That's why He chose the nation of Israel. He chose them to bring forth the promise seed of Genesis 3:15. Good grief. He didn't choose them for salvation.

But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Another post devoid of any knowledge of God's covenant of redemption.

 

[Iconoclast]

So you agree God is the author of sin? When you sin, God decreed it?

Can you read the link with understanding???
Which part of this do you not understand???
Iconoclast said:
Break it down line by line, slowly...they took months to compose these statements with the verses. It is not a readers digest version. I and others will help you if any portion does not seem clear...
like this;
Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity,

by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will,

freely and unchangeably,

all things,

whatsoever comes to pass;

yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;

nor is violence offered to the will of the creature,

nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away,

but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 2

 

[Iconoclast]

I twisted nothing pal.....I read clearly what you said to John's post....that is one thing with you Calvin followers....you skew, then deny it, and then try to pass the buck....Zero honesty and or integrity!

Put your big boy pants on and answer the link line by line and show what you have to offer. I am not holding my breath as you cannot do it.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Bbrdrd,


[Except if the only difference between the saved and the damned is God's sovereign decree they have no power to not dismiss it.]
[God has already chosen them for damnation through choosing not to save them.]

Wrong once again...

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree
1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory,
some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace;

others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.
( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

[So what benefit is the gospel to them since if they believe it to be true it does nothing but torture them early since they have no ability to change their fate according to Calvinists.]

Everyone believing the gospel will be saved. The gospel is offered to all who get to hear it preached or taught.
Do not blame God as if you know better what he should have done, or His purpose was in any way defective.

[It is not the true God I malign with my accusations but the idol present within the theological system known as Calvinism.]

Calvinists know the biblical God revealed in scripture. When you malign and profane His truth, you do the very thing you deny...I would reconsider what you are posting as you clearly do not represent any Calvinist i Know.

Your post flatly contradicts itself, first declaring God decrees nothing and simply knows what comes to pass then states God decrees some men predestined. If the only thing separating the saved from the damned is God's decree, God decreed damnation for those He didn't save.

The fact that you can contradict yourself so quickly and fail to see it is exactly why I rarely discuss Scripture with Calvinists. The cognitive dissonance requires that all contradictory Scripture simply be ignored and the few proof texts to be read only in the way necessary for maintaining Calvinist belief.

The god Calvinists present completely lacks the personal character of Christ. It is an impersonal narcissistic monster rather than the compassionate God and the "glory" presented is totally devoid of God's actual glory.

 

[Iconoclast]

Your post flatly contradicts itself, first declaring God decrees nothing and simply knows what comes to pass then states God decrees some men predestined. If the only thing separating the saved from the damned is God's decree, God decreed damnation for those He didn't save.

The fact that you can contradict yourself so quickly and fail to see it is exactly why I rarely discuss Scripture with Calvinists. The cognitive dissonance requires that all contradictory Scripture simply be ignored and the few proof texts to be read only in the way necessary for maintaining Calvinist belief.

The god Calvinists present completely lacks the personal character of Christ. It is an impersonal narcissistic monster rather than the compassionate God and the "glory" presented is totally devoid of God's actual glory.

Could you post this supposed contradiction? I have no idea where you think this was posted...quote exactly where you think I posted what you say, in my words. Perhaps the real reason is you get answers that you cannot respond to.

 

[EleventhHour]

Your post flatly contradicts itself, first declaring God decrees nothing and simply knows what comes to pass then states God decrees some men predestined. If the only thing separating the saved from the damned is God's decree, God decreed damnation for those He didn't save.

The fact that you can contradict yourself so quickly and fail to see it is exactly why I rarely discuss Scripture with Calvinists. The cognitive dissonance requires that all contradictory Scripture simply be ignored and the few proof texts to be read only in the way necessary for maintaining Calvinist belief.

The god Calvinists present completely lacks the personal character of Christ. It is an impersonal narcissistic monster rather than the compassionate God and the "glory" presented is totally devoid of God's actual glory.

They never reply to what contradicts their dogma... and always the same old proof texts out of context.

Paul was the elect and had no choice they argue and yet not one has dealt with this statement by Paul.

“So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven.

 

[Bbrdrd]

Could you post this supposed contradiction? I have no idea where you think this was posted...quote exactly where you think I posted what you say, in my words. Perhaps the real reason is you get answers that you cannot respond to.

Point 2 and 3 in the post I quoted are mutually exclusive. You state them both as true. In that, you contradict yourself.

 

[Iconoclast]

Point 2 and 3 in the post I quoted are mutually exclusive. You state them both as true. In that, you contradict yourself.

There is no contradiction whatsoever.
The clearest example is the cross;
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

 

[Bbrdrd]

There is no contradiction whatsoever.

Point 1 is God decreed everything, point 2 is God decreed nothing but foreknew everything, and point 3 is God decreed specific things. One of these 3 is not like the other, and all 3 cannot be true at the same time.

Pure cognitive dissonance that you can make such a statement and not recognize that it is internally contradictory.

 

[Iconoclast]

Point 1 is God decreed everything, point 2 is God decreed nothing but foreknew everything, and point 3 is God decreed specific things. One of these 3 is not like the other, and all 3 cannot be true at the same time.

Pure cognitive dissonance that you can make such a statement and not recognize that it is internally contradictory.

The cross, determined by God, men with wicked hands have crucified and slain.
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

also, stick to the correct language....

yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein;

nor is violence offered to the will of the creature,

nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away,

 

[Bbrdrd]

The cross, determined by God, men with wicked hands have crucified and slain.
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

That doesn't address my criticism in any way, nor does it remove the contradiction internal to your statements.

 

[Iconoclast]

That doesn't address my criticism in any way, nor does it remove the contradiction internal to your statements.

sure it does, but you want your error instead. it flat out says God is not the author of sin, which you profanely suggest. No Calvinists say such a thing. Show any Calvinist who says God is the author of sin, you cannot because no Calvinist would do that.
I think you do not understand the phrase about secondary causes.