Do sinners (people who still sin) see their sin in others?

[Lion222]

If your sin is like a log in the eye, then everywhere you look you would see log.

Then if you warn a sinner of their logs in order to help them remove it
do then not look at you and see you as guilty of the very same thing?

Do they end up trying to remove their log from your eye?

Who has experienced this in relationship?

At that time and in that experience did you know you where the logged one or the log free one or was everybody just logged up?

Did you learn that it is necessary to focus on our own sin removal first?
Or are you still going off on others sins half logged?

Once you have dealt with yours, will your tempts to help others always end up with them looking at you as the sinner and is that just the price you have to pay in order to help someone else get fee or is it a proportional thing?

In my past experience I remember a man i was seeing as so very wrong is so many things, but at the same time i kept seeing God show up when he did.
When i asked god why this is, the answer i got was "shut up and listen"
Because what i thought was right was wrong because of my sin, so i saw him as wrong even though he had the testimony of God working through his life.
Anybody else with such experiences in their pasts?

 

[garee]

If your sin is like a log in the eye, then everywhere you look you would see log.

Then if you warn a sinner of their logs in order to help them remove it
do then not look at you and see you as guilty of the very same thing?

Do they end up trying to remove their log from your eye?

Who has experienced this in relationship?

At that time and in that experience did you know you where the logged one or the log free one or was everybody just logged up?

Did you learn that it is necessary to focus on our own sin removal first?
Or are you still going off on others sins half logged?

Once you have dealt with yours, will your tempts to help others always end up with them looking at you as the sinner and is that just the price you have to pay in order to help someone else get fee or is it a proportional thing?

In my past experience I remember a man i was seeing as so very wrong is so many things, but at the same time i kept seeing God show up when he did.
When i asked god why this is, the answer i got was "shut up and listen"
Because what i thought was right was wrong because of my sin, so i saw him as wrong even though he had the testimony of God working through his life.
Anybody else with such experiences in their pasts?

Mankind will be putting away childish things until they no longer have the breath to ....I know you are but what am I?. You're it. No peeking . No hiding the Uno card.

 

[throughfaith]

If your sin is like a log in the eye, then everywhere you look you would see log.

Then if you warn a sinner of their logs in order to help them remove it
do then not look at you and see you as guilty of the very same thing?

Do they end up trying to remove their log from your eye?

Who has experienced this in relationship?

At that time and in that experience did you know you where the logged one or the log free one or was everybody just logged up?

Did you learn that it is necessary to focus on our own sin removal first?
Or are you still going off on others sins half logged?

Once you have dealt with yours, will your tempts to help others always end up with them looking at you as the sinner and is that just the price you have to pay in order to help someone else get fee or is it a proportional thing?

In my past experience I remember a man i was seeing as so very wrong is so many things, but at the same time i kept seeing God show up when he did.
When i asked god why this is, the answer i got was "shut up and listen"
Because what i thought was right was wrong because of my sin, so i saw him as wrong even though he had the testimony of God working through his life.
Anybody else with such experiences in their pasts?

I think some people who see themselves as not sinning when they are . And they believe they can keep their salvation by what they do or don't do .

 

[seed_time_harvest]

If your sin is like a log in the eye, then everywhere you look you would see log.

Then if you warn a sinner of their logs in order to help them remove it
do then not look at you and see you as guilty of the very same thing?

Do they end up trying to remove their log from your eye?

Who has experienced this in relationship?

At that time and in that experience did you know you where the logged one or the log free one or was everybody just logged up?

Did you learn that it is necessary to focus on our own sin removal first?
Or are you still going off on others sins half logged?

Once you have dealt with yours, will your tempts to help others always end up with them looking at you as the sinner and is that just the price you have to pay in order to help someone else get fee or is it a proportional thing?

In my past experience I remember a man i was seeing as so very wrong is so many things, but at the same time i kept seeing God show up when he did.
When i asked god why this is, the answer i got was "shut up and listen"
Because what i thought was right was wrong because of my sin, so i saw him as wrong even though he had the testimony of God working through his life.
Anybody else with such experiences in their pasts?

We ARE human beings and man looks at the outer appearance But GOD looks at the heart/motivation.

Love covers a multitude of sins and this IMO Is not only about GODs love for us but love covers a multitude of sins Is also talking about man’s love for his neighbor.

If someone really truly thinks you care about them,they will not be hypersensitive to criticism coming from someone that they think cares about them.

But If they don’t feel emotionally that your feelings toward them Is sincere then IMO they will certainly feel that the person Is criticizing them when they have problems too.

 

[Lion222]

We ARE human beings and man looks at the outer appearance But GOD looks at the heart/motivation.

Love covers a multitude of sins and this IMO Is not only about GODs love for us but love covers a multitude of sins Is also talking about man’s love for his neighbor.

If someone really truly thinks you care about them,they will not be hypersensitive to criticism coming from someone that they think cares about them.

But If they don’t feel emotionally that your feelings toward them Is sincere then IMO they will certainly feel that the person Is criticizing them when they have problems too.

Is that not all a function ones ability to have faith?

Without faith how can someone receive the love of God, let alone the love of others.
You can demonstrate love to the point of a dying on a cross and people who do not put their faith in that will always operate out of a suspicious and judgmental heart rather then gratitude.

At least that is how I understand why God requires faith.
It is necessary to receive love.

 

[Duskey]

Everyone sins. Some see it, some don’t.

 

[Lion222]

I think some people who see themselves as not sinning when they are . And they believe they can keep their salvation by what they do or don't do .

Well our salvation is in our confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and not with just lip service.
But yes if you depend on the quality of your work being good enough you are still depending on yourself.
But if you depend on doing it your way you are still depending on yourself.
But if you submit and trust and obey regardless of how much you fail short in the quality of your labors you are secure in the Fact that Jesus is Lord of your life.

 

[throughfaith]

Well our salvation is in our confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and not with just lip service.
But yes if you depend on the quality of your work being good enough you are still depending on yourself.
But if you depend on doing it your way you are still depending on yourself.
But if you submit and trust and obey regardless of how much you fail short in the quality of your labors you are secure in the Fact that Jesus is Lord of your life.

With respect, I deal with this issue all the time with the jehovah witnesses and Mormons

Well our salvation is in our confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and not with just lip service.
But yes if you depend on the quality of your work being good enough you are still depending on yourself.
But if you depend on doing it your way you are still depending on yourself.
But if you submit and trust and obey regardless of how much you fail short in the quality of your labors you are secure in the Fact that Jesus is Lord of your life.

///Well our salvation is in our confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and not with just lip service./// This is not the Gospel . Neither is a promise to be committed. This is actually creates false converts who are just following the rules but never recieved Jesus . To be saved you need to Recieve Jesus . Not Follow Jesus as if by doing as he does and says is the goal to be saved .

 

[Lion222]

Everyone sins. Some see it, some don’t.

Not what the bible teaches.
Peter says you are to cease from sin and only after that do you begin to live the rest of your life for the Glory of God.

Now one might argue that he means something other then he actually says, to that I would say stop clinging to your sin.

One might assume he means ceasing from the sin you are aware of, because you could not be able to actively cease from that which you did not know about. - I could accept that as a possibility but is it not what was said exactly.

But in my experience if you cease from the sin you know about the sin you don't know about will soon take its place.
So the ceasing from the sin you know will also include the exposing of the sin you do not.

In fact the way to do it is to choose to suffer for Christs sake.
To set your mind to the very purpose that Jesus did,
suffering for the sake of removing sin and being pleasing to God in doing so.

But too few believe in the purpose of the Gospel and lay hold of the fullness of our salvation and many teach against it in the deceitfulness of their own sin.

I was once a very unbelieving believer, a smoldering wick you might say, thank God not anymore.
In truth the hard part is not ceasing from sin, it is living the rest of your life for the glory of God, since that Glory has no limits outside of our Faith in His leading, command, will and ability.

I know I am in the minority, but then it is the wide road that most everyone takes that leads to destruction.
Having faith in the agreement of others is no substitute for having faith the power of God working in your life and doing in you what you could not do yourself.

 

[Lion222]

With respect, I deal with this issue all the time with the jehovah witnesses and Mormons

///Well our salvation is in our confessing Jesus Christ as Lord and not with just lip service./// This is not the Gospel . Neither is a promise to be committed. This is actually creates false converts who are just following the rules but never recieved Jesus . To be saved you need to Recieve Jesus . Not Follow Jesus as if by doing as he does and says is the goal to be saved .

One way to discredit something falsely is to associate it with something already discredited.

Receive Jesus YES but receive Jesus as your Lord...
Do you really?
Do you understand what having a Lord means?

If not let me introduce you to the true Gospel.

But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess (Jesus's lordship) and are saved.. - Romans 10:8-10

It is not a false confession that saves, the choice that results in the acts of placing yourself under the lordship of Christ Jesus.
Which is also why faith without works is dead, without the works of faith.
Because the confession of Lordship without submission to that lordship is also as worthless as a dead faith.

Do we become better and faithful servants or slaves of the righteousness that is Christ Jesus over time as we walk in it.
Totally.

Does it depend on how good of job we do?
Totally NOT!

Does it depend on who is the Lord of our lives, us or Jesus?
Totally!

But this is the Gospel message and the purpose of it according to Peter is the cessation of sin in your life.
But even Peter called out those who reject that very purpose.

There is a dead gospel of lip service out there and all who put their faith in it will be among those who hear "Depart from me you who practice lawlessness" (which is sin).

 

[Duskey]

Not what the bible teaches.
Peter says you are to cease from sin and only after that do you begin to live the rest of your life for the Glory of God.

Now one might argue that he means something other then he actually says, to that I would say stop clinging to your sin.

One might assume he means ceasing from the sin you are aware of, because you could not be able to actively cease from that which you did not know about. - I could accept that as a possibility but is it not what was said exactly.

But in my experience if you cease from the sin you know about the sin you don't know about will soon take its place.
So the ceasing from the sin you know will also include the exposing of the sin you do not.

In fact the way to do it is to choose to suffer for Christs sake.
To set your mind to the very purpose that Jesus did,
suffering for the sake of removing sin and being pleasing to God in doing so.

But too few believe in the purpose of the Gospel and lay hold of the fullness of our salvation and many teach against it in the deceitfulness of their own sin.

I was once a very unbelieving believer, a smoldering wick you might say, thank God not anymore.
In truth the hard part is not ceasing from sin, it is living the rest of your life for the glory of God, since that Glory has no limits outside of our Faith in His leading, command, will and ability.

I know I am in the minority, but then it is the wide road that most everyone takes that leads to destruction.
Having faith in the agreement of others is no substitute for having faith the power of God working in your life and doing in you what you could not do yourself.

I suggest you read 1 John 1.

 

[throughfaith]

One way to discredit something falsely is to associate it with something already discredited.

Receive Jesus YES but receive Jesus as your Lord...
Do you really?
Do you understand what having a Lord means?

If not let me introduce you to the true Gospel.

But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess (Jesus's lordship) and are saved.. - Romans 10:8-10

It is not a false confession that saves, the choice that results in the acts of placing yourself under the lordship of Christ Jesus.
Which is also why faith without works is dead, without the works of faith.
Because the confession of Lordship without submission to that lordship is also as worthless as a dead faith.

Do we become better and faithful servants or slaves of the righteousness that is Christ Jesus over time as we walk in it.
Totally.

Does it depend on how good of job we do?
Totally NOT!

Does it depend on who is the Lord of our lives, us or Jesus?
Totally!

But this is the Gospel message and the purpose of it according to Peter is the cessation of sin in your life.
But even Peter called out those who reject that very purpose.

There is a dead gospel of lip service out there and all who put their faith in it will be among those who hear "Depart from me you who practice lawlessness" (which is sin).

See what your teaching is disobedience. Jesus IS Lord ,we don't MAKE Him anything, We don't MAKE him Lord . Yes People have to understand Jesus was Who HE said He was . The whole book of John is about who Jesus is . Jesus is God . But the Gospel is not " i promise to commit and obey " . No the obedience is to Believe the Gospel . Let's not close the door for people to recieve Jesus by 'legalism and ' Lordship salvation ' .

 

[soggykitten]

Would sinners even know what sin is unless they are open to receive the blessed teaching that tells them of their lost state? And the path to repentance and redemption and forward unto eternal life and salvation in Christ?

1 John 3:8 The one who practices sin is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the very start. This is why the Son of God was revealed, to destroy the works of the devil. 9Anyone born of God refuses to practice sin, because God’s seed abides in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother.

This is why we who are in Christ can never lose our salvation. We can never be, un-reborn in him. Ours is not a salvation that is worked to achieve nor retain. It is eternal. Though and sadly there are those Denominations that teach salvation is not eternal and it can be lost. Very sad.

1 Peter 1:23
For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.

1 John 2:29
If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

James 2:18
But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

 

[breno785au]

Love, forgiveness, mercy, compassion.. These are the works God is looking for and will be written on the heart of those who belong to Him.

 

[Lion222]

See what your teaching is disobedience. Jesus IS Lord ,we don't MAKE Him anything, We don't MAKE him Lord . Yes People have to understand Jesus was Who HE said He was . The whole book of John is about who Jesus is . Jesus is God . But the Gospel is not " i promise to commit and obey " . No the obedience is to Believe the Gospel . Let's not close the door for people to recieve Jesus by 'legalism and ' Lordship salvation ' .

Why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ but not do what I say?

I will show you what he is like who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them: He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid his foundation on the rock. When the flood came, the torrent crashed against that house but could not shake it, because it was well built But the one who hears My words and does not act on them is like a man who built his house on ground without a foundation (that is without Christs Lordship) . The torrent crashed against that house, and immediately it fell—and great was its destruction. - Luke 6

And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin - 1 John

Do you actually know him (Jesus as your Lord & Saviour) How can you know if you really know?

By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments. If anyone says, “I know Him,” but does not keep His commandments, he is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone keeps His word, the love of God has been truly perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him - 1 John 2:4

But people like to skip over such verses because they challenge "Easy Believism"
But if you don't want to believe me how about Billy Graham preaching on submission and lordship and obedience over Easy Believism

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Is that not all a function ones ability to have faith?

Without faith how can someone receive the love of God, let alone the love of others.
You can demonstrate love to the point of a dying on a cross and people who do not put their faith in that will always operate out of a suspicious and judgmental heart rather then gratitude.

At least that is how I understand why God requires faith.
It is necessary to receive love.

Of course a person has got to be born of the SPIRIT of GOD.
You didn't really read my whole post ,did you?

 

[Lion222]

I suggest you read 1 John 1.

Love me some 1 John 1 read it all the time.

 

[Lion222]

Of course a person has got to be born of the SPIRIT of GOD.
You didn't really read my whole post ,did you?

Yeah I did and it seems to imply it totally depended on someone doing it the "Right" way or it would be received wrong.
But doing it the right way in a right heat in my experience makes no difference without a faith to receive it as Good and from a good heart in the first place.
You know how some people assume the worst, come with the default of a heart that is against you because of their own damage/hurt/experience. How it make them unable to recognize love even if it lands in their laps.

One of the consequences of making lots of relationship bonds and tearing them apart over and over or just growing up in a sinful world, Even Believers hold on to all that past crap and use it to destroy their own futures.
It hard to get free, and wanting to help does not help without a willingness to trust someone other then your own mind to lead you into truth and freedom you do not have and do not see and do not know and suffer from the lack of.

How does it go
Wretched, blind, naked and poor
and totally unaware of the fact.

The only way to help that person is to leave it be and just live your life as an example to follow as you walk away.
Because that would require God to break through such a hardened way of seeing others in ones heart.

Loving such people only brings pain and grief and regret.

 

[Benadam]

Loving such people only brings pain and grief

As an infant becomes aware that the object that responds to them and their needs is a separate being not just an object that serves, it begins to suffer anxiety. It wants to deny that it's mother is a seperate autonomous being. If the Mother is loving and patient as the baby clings to her and rages at reality it will eventually feel safe and loved enough to accept the separation and experience security and know love that could only be felt when the baby is securely separated.. To bond and empathize and value others.

If the mothering doesn't provide the environment that provides the security to work out the pain of separation the child will deny the awareness of seperation in order to not lose it's mother but the Mother will remain an object that provides for it . the child will never know the love from Her or another never be able to bond and empathize or thank
This will be one of those who may never perceive another human being as more than an object. Or never know love and even disdain it as weakness.

Reading your posts I got that. Thought I should share.

 

[Lion222]

As an infant becomes aware that the object that responds to them and their needs is a separate being not just an object that serves, it begins to suffer anxiety. It wants to deny that it's mother is a seperate autonomous being. If the Mother is loving and patient as the baby clings to her and rages at reality it will eventually feel safe and loved enough to accept the separation and experience security and know love that could only be felt when the baby is securely separated.. To bond and empathize and value others.

If the mothering doesn't provide the environment that provides the security to work out the pain of separation the child will deny the awareness of seperation in order to not lose it's mother but the Mother will remain an object that provides for it . the child will never know the love from Her or another never be able to bond and empathize or thank
This will be one of those who may never perceive another human being as more than an object. Or never know love and even disdain it as weakness.

Reading your posts I got that. Thought I should share.

Thanks for your post, interesting insight.
I hope for the sake of the person I am thinking of that is not the case.
Perhaps in part it is because of the great separation anxiety and the blame for "Great hurt caused" by pulling away when they as an adult rage at the reality introduced by having a relationship with another life
You feel empathy for someone caught in a trap of their own mind and want to set them free.
But they lack the faith to experience a new reality and gain a new truth.
the foundations they have built on are not the foundations of Faith.