Conspiracy thinker vs trust

[PC123]

At this point I do not for see a law being passed that would force a vaccine on anyone. If they do, I would be wrong about that. I don't know what you are asking. I simply try to reserve judgment without evidence and I am not persuaded by illogical conspiracy theories. Emotional hype and the outrage of people does not move me. For example at this point I see no reason to believe that Bill Gates is not sincerely interested in helping save lives worldwide by funding the development of vaccines. I am not painting him a christian or having any knowledge of what that means, he is probably a humanist theologically based on things he has said. I do not think he has any secret world domination plans or parties with those who do. I could be wrong but I think it is sinful to accuse him of the things that I have heard people say using the wacky evidence they present. If he turns out to be a satan worshipping, illuminati, half borg, from the dark side of the moon, I will admit I was wrong.

Ok... Lets say they mandate the vaccine or use blackmail tactics to coerce the public...
Would that be evidence to support the claim that there is a financial motivation to covid?

 

[PC123]

@Scribe
Or you can put it this way... After covid is said and done, how will you determine if you were right or wrong?

 

[Scribe]

@Scribe
Or you can put it this way... After covid is said and done, how will you determine if you were right or wrong?

Right about what? I am trying to think of the statements that I have made as to my opinion about COVID. Let me go on record with some statements that I may be right or wrong about when everything is known.

I think it is a virus that got into the wild from an animal probably a bat because there are at least six other types this virus that are known to be in the various bat populations. It may have come from a lab that was doing research on such viruses and a worker accidentally brought it into the population or it may have come from a wet market. Jury is still out on that and we may never know because China may have destroyed evidence because saving face to them is on the same level as truth when it comes to their moral ideology.

I know a couple of months back I posted that I expected that 250,000 deaths in the US would probably be about right before this is all over. That was a prediction that Trump announced all of his experts were saying. Remember that? I thought they knew what they were talking about then and I don't think they will be that far off. I think at one time I said we would probably reach that many deaths sometime between Aug and Oct, I have to find my old posts to see what exactly I said. The actual counts might be closer to 200K and I hope that I am wrong.

I think that the vaccine/vaccines will be the main game changer in eliminating future deaths or lowering the future death counts.

I think that it will not all be over until people get vaccinated. If the vaccine turns out to not be as successful as the 2nd phase testing looked, after this 3rd phase 30K testing is complete, or if it only works on 50% of the people, then this virus problem will linger on for years and years and even those who got it once and got over it, will probably get it again in the future and may get over it again or may not. I may be wrong about all this. We will see.

I think that those who get vaccinated may need a booster once a year, but they may not, the jury is still out on that.

I could be wrong about everything. This is my prediction based on what I think I know so far.

I am praying that the virus will just die and go away. What if that happens? Will it be proof of a conspiracy or will it be an answer to prayer. We know historically that viruses outbreaks have stopped without explanation. We guess as to the reasons why. No one knows exactly why the Spanish flu ran it's course. I do not see this virus going away suddenly after November. There will probably be more spikes world wide. The faster we get a vaccine to people the faster we will see that bell shaped graph finally draw the other half of the bell. That is my prediction.

 

[Scribe]

Ok... Lets say they mandate the vaccine or use blackmail tactics to coerce the public...
Would that be evidence to support the claim that there is a financial motivation to covid?

So your reasoning is.. if there is a vaccine that must mean the illness was manufactured so that the creators of vaccines could get rich?

If schools require your kids to be vaccinated to attend class I do not think that is proof that the illness was manufactured to sell vaccines and I find it illogical, unreasonable, thinking.

I heard about one state requiring the flu vaccine to attend classes. Does that mean the vaccine companies invented the flu?

 

[ev4989]

Again Scribe, Thank you for the truth, the facts and nothing but the FACTS!
people like you and Eleven give me hope. I know that we my disagree on certain
issues. but I can always count on you to stick with the facts and not ignorant opinions...

 

[PC123]

So your reasoning is.. if there is a vaccine that must mean the illness was manufactured so that the creators of vaccines could get rich?

Hahaha that's not what i said at all... Its easy to get confused on a forum speaking to a lot of people but i never said that...
I just asked a simple question. Your post was a really good one but im starting to wonder weather you actually apply it to yourself...
Cos you seem very deeply invested in the promotion and defense of vaccine... A long term vaccine advocate...
So much so that you support the blackmail of doctors and people...
For me that is an extreme position to interfere with the doctor/patient relationship with blackmails...

But what if you are wrong? Would you then stubbornly and belligerently hold fast to your irrational and illogical error because you promised yourself that you would never relent? Standing in the truth should include a willingness to concede to being wrong so that you can realign with said truth you claim to love. Don't be too committed to your unproven conclusions. You might be wrong about it.

And so i ask again this simple question again...
When all is said and done how will you know if you were right or wrong?

 

[Scribe]

Hahaha that's not what i said at all... Its easy to get confused on a forum speaking to a lot of people but i never said that...
I just asked a simple question. Your post was a really good one but im starting to wonder weather you actually apply it to yourself...
Cos you seem very deeply invested in the promotion and defense of vaccine... A long term vaccine advocate...
So much so that you support the blackmail of doctors and people...
For me that is an extreme position to interfere with the doctor/patient relationship with blackmails...

But what if you are wrong? Would you then stubbornly and belligerently hold fast to your irrational and illogical error because you promised yourself that you would never relent? Standing in the truth should include a willingness to concede to being wrong so that you can realign with said truth you claim to love. Don't be too committed to your unproven conclusions. You might be wrong about it.

And so i ask again this simple question again...
When all is said and done how will you know if you were right or wrong?

What is this, a Platonian question? Like what is your proof that we exist? What is the definition of right, what is the definition of wrong?

 

[ev4989]

Hahaha that's not what i said at all... Its easy to get confused on a forum speaking to a lot of people but i never said that...
I just asked a simple question. Your post was a really good one but im starting to wonder weather you actually apply it to yourself...
Cos you seem very deeply invested in the promotion and defense of vaccine... A long term vaccine advocate...
So much so that you support the blackmail of doctors and people...
For me that is an extreme position to interfere with the doctor/patient relationship with blackmails...

But what if you are wrong? Would you then stubbornly and belligerently hold fast to your irrational and illogical error because you promised yourself that you would never relent? Standing in the truth should include a willingness to concede to being wrong so that you can realign with said truth you claim to love. Don't be too committed to your unproven conclusions. You might be wrong about it.

And so i ask again this simple question again...
When all is said and done how will you know if you were right or wrong?

Fact finders, Science journals maybe.

 

[Fundamental]

At this point I do not for see a law being passed that would force a vaccine on anyone. If they do, I would be wrong about that. I don't know what you are asking. I simply try to reserve judgment without evidence and I am not persuaded by illogical conspiracy theories. Emotional hype and the outrage of people does not move me. For example at this point I see no reason to believe that Bill Gates is not sincerely interested in helping save lives worldwide by funding the development of vaccines. I am not painting him a christian or having any knowledge of what that means, he is probably a humanist theologically based on things he has said. I do not think he has any secret world domination plans or parties with those who do. I could be wrong but I think it is sinful to accuse him of the things that I have heard people say using the wacky evidence they present. If he turns out to be a satan worshipping, illuminati, half borg, from the dark side of the moon, I will admit I was wrong.

We will not return to normal until there is a solution. The solution is everyday reminded to us in about every tv show “yes we will return to normal, we are working very hard on vaccins”

Those not taking the vaccin will never be able to return back to normal.
It was said to you before covid19 vaccins were sold. Give this time and see who will be right.

I can’t believe people still trust their system having brought this pandemic unto us because it was political correct to kiss China’s butt. Rather then to enfore travel restrictions and quarantines of those coming out of danger zones. That was “racist” or “xenofobe”. Oh puh lease what have we become as western society?

 

[Fundamental]

Right about what? I am trying to think of the statements that I have made as to my opinion about COVID. Let me go on record with some statements that I may be right or wrong about when everything is known.

I think it is a virus that got into the wild from an animal probably a bat because there are at least six other types this virus that are known to be in the various bat populations. It may have come from a lab that was doing research on such viruses and a worker accidentally brought it into the population or it may have come from a wet market. Jury is still out on that and we may never know because China may have destroyed evidence because saving face to them is on the same level as truth when it comes to their moral ideology.

I know a couple of months back I posted that I expected that 250,000 deaths in the US would probably be about right before this is all over. That was a prediction that Trump announced all of his experts were saying. Remember that? I thought they knew what they were talking about then and I don't think they will be that far off. I think at one time I said we would probably reach that many deaths sometime between Aug and Oct, I have to find my old posts to see what exactly I said. The actual counts might be closer to 200K and I hope that I am wrong.

I think that the vaccine/vaccines will be the main game changer in eliminating future deaths or lowering the future death counts.

I think that it will not all be over until people get vaccinated. If the vaccine turns out to not be as successful as the 2nd phase testing looked, after this 3rd phase 30K testing is complete, or if it only works on 50% of the people, then this virus problem will linger on for years and years and even those who got it once and got over it, will probably get it again in the future and may get over it again or may not. I may be wrong about all this. We will see.

I think that those who get vaccinated may need a booster once a year, but they may not, the jury is still out on that.

I could be wrong about everything. This is my prediction based on what I think I know so far.

I am praying that the virus will just die and go away. What if that happens? Will it be proof of a conspiracy or will it be an answer to prayer. We know historically that viruses outbreaks have stopped without explanation. We guess as to the reasons why. No one knows exactly why the Spanish flu ran it's course. I do not see this virus going away suddenly after November. There will probably be more spikes world wide. The faster we get a vaccine to people the faster we will see that bell shaped graph finally draw the other half of the bell. That is my prediction.

Was there a vaccin for the Spanish flu and what would the outcome be if there was?
Try to look at this beyond the human population of today.... Natural selection is cruel and nature is a killer. What is our obsession with stalling death at cost of anything else on this earth?

 

[PC123]

What is this, a Platonian question? Like what is your proof that we exist? What is the definition of right, what is the definition of wrong?

Its a simple question that's tied u up in a knot... LoL...... Your entrenched, committed, deeply invested in the promotion and defence of vaccines... U have no way of identifying weather your right or wrong, no measure of truth like i have, no line in the sand...

U must be a long term vaccine advocate cos uv got all these fact checking websites and u treat anti-vaxxers like a scourge
But for someone like me that just started learning about vaccines with covid its confusing. A lot of this are highly suspicious.

And when the most basic of ethical questions can't be answered people become very skeptical.
When the sanctity of our patient/doctor relationship is being compromised people become very skeptical.
I won't even start with the list of suspicious stuff cos it will take up a page but people like u make things suspicious as well...

I did ask what your motivation was, why ur so concerned about other peoples choices to vaccinate. But u didn't answer.
Whats with this group of people that demand that everyone takes the vaccine...
U can take the vaccine yourselves so why then??? Very odd behavior indeed, i knew nothing about this war...
And the way u guys berate them with disgusting labels is really just foul to say the least...
Civilized discourse is all but gone but in this debate its non-existent i find, kind of like the abortion debate...

But your committed...
The world could fall into a dystopia and all the anti-vaxxers prophecies come to fruition and you would still be in denial...

But what if you are wrong? Would you then stubbornly and belligerently hold fast to your irrational and illogical error because you promised yourself that you would never relent? Standing in the truth should include a willingness to concede to being wrong so that you can realign with said truth you claim to love. Don't be too committed to your unproven conclusions. You might be wrong about it.

It was a cracker, a thought provoking one "stubbornly and belligerently hold fast to your irrational and illogical error" indeed
And "a willingness to concede to being wrong" is important too...
U seem to have pre judged your position and won't consider being wrong like i do...

But anyway, i don't think your even able to understand why someone would be skeptical of anything...
And without understanding someone your odds of convincing them of something is very slim...
How many anti-vaxxers have you turned from the dark side? Not many, if any i suspect without any understanding

 

[Scribe]

Its a simple question that's tied u up in a knot... LoL...... Your entrenched, committed, deeply invested in the promotion and defence of vaccines... U have no way of identifying weather your right or wrong, no measure of truth like i have, no line in the sand...

U must be a long term vaccine advocate cos uv got all these fact checking websites and u treat anti-vaxxers like a scourge
But for someone like me that just started learning about vaccines with covid its confusing. A lot of this are highly suspicious.

And when the most basic of ethical questions can't be answered people become very skeptical.
When the sanctity of our patient/doctor relationship is being compromised people become very skeptical.
I won't even start with the list of suspicious stuff cos it will take up a page but people like u make things suspicious as well...

I did ask what your motivation was, why ur so concerned about other peoples choices to vaccinate. But u didn't answer.
Whats with this group of people that demand that everyone takes the vaccine...
U can take the vaccine yourselves so why then??? Very odd behavior indeed, i knew nothing about this war...
And the way u guys berate them with disgusting labels is really just foul to say the least...
Civilized discourse is all but gone but in this debate its non-existent i find, kind of like the abortion debate...

But your committed...
The world could fall into a dystopia and all the anti-vaxxers prophecies come to fruition and you would still be in denial...

But what if you are wrong? Would you then stubbornly and belligerently hold fast to your irrational and illogical error because you promised yourself that you would never relent? Standing in the truth should include a willingness to concede to being wrong so that you can realign with said truth you claim to love. Don't be too committed to your unproven conclusions. You might be wrong about it.

It was a cracker, a thought provoking one "stubbornly and belligerently hold fast to your irrational and illogical error" indeed
And "a willingness to concede to being wrong" is important too...
U seem to have pre judged your position and won't consider being wrong like i do...

But anyway, i don't think your even able to understand why someone would be skeptical of anything...
And without understanding someone your odds of convincing them of something is very slim...
How many anti-vaxxers have you turned from the dark side? Not many, if any i suspect without any understanding

That was a whole lot of emotional rhetoric but it is not science. Science is on the side of the safety and benefits of vaccines that is why I am for it. They work. They save lives, they are safe. I have not been persuaded by emotional inflammatory hype that there is anything wrong with vaccines. They are an example of our God given expectation and responsibility to subdue the earth.

 

[Scribe]

Was there a vaccin for the Spanish flu and what would the outcome be if there was?
Try to look at this beyond the human population of today.... Natural selection is cruel and nature is a killer. What is our obsession with stalling death at cost of anything else on this earth?

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is why the world puts a high value on human life. It has had an effect on all societies in 2000 years whether they realize it was the Gospel that changed the world or not. Saving lives and curing disease is a responsibility of a moral creature. We don't let people die if we can help it. Millions are alive and healthy today, with families of their own who will have families that were saved from death or debilitating disease because of a vaccine.

 

[J-T]

Gather around everyone!! It's time to call the Saints to bookmark, follow and SHARE this page onward: We are about to "meet" some of the folks behind the conspiracies. Yes, high ranking members of the "Secret Societies" !! (Pass the word) No one will be disappointed;

https://christianchat.com/conspirac...-covid-19-vaccine.193744/page-24#post-4361352

 

[ev4989]

Gather around everyone!! It's time to call the Saints to bookmark, follow and SHARE this page onward: We are about to "meet" some of the folks behind the conspiracies. Yes, high ranking members of the "Secret Societies" !! (Pass the word) No one will be disappointed;

https://christianchat.com/conspirac...-covid-19-vaccine.193744/page-24#post-4361352

Will Bill Maher be one of them?


jv

 

[PC123]

That was a whole lot of emotional rhetoric but it is not science. Science is on the side of the safety and benefits of vaccines that is why I am for it. They work. They save lives, they are safe. I have not been persuaded by emotional inflammatory hype that there is anything wrong with vaccines. They are an example of our God given expectation and responsibility to subdue the earth.

Well if you consider moral arguments to be emotional rhetoric than ethics mustn't be important to you which is sad.
As for medical science there is no one better than my life-long personal physician to treat me. And when they are being censored, extorted, bribed, blackmailed, sacked, doxed, threatened, etc then that is both unethical, unscientific and breaks the sanctity of the patient/doctor relationship...

As for vaccines being "safe" thats an absurd claim given the fact that billions have been paid out to victims of vaccine injuries

 

[Scribe]

Well if you consider moral arguments to be emotional rhetoric than ethics mustn't be important to you which is sad.
As for medical science there is no one better than my life-long personal physician to treat me. And when they are being censored, extorted, bribed, blackmailed, sacked, doxed, threatened, etc then that is both unethical, unscientific and breaks the sanctity of the patient/doctor relationship...

As for vaccines being "safe" thats an absurd claim given the fact that billions have been paid out to victims of vaccine injuries

Litigation is not really a proper measurement for the validity of vaccines. People can sue for any reason and often companies pay settlements when there is the probability of a long legal battle. This has been the history of the American legal system and the reason everyone wants their kids to be lawyers so they can get rich trying to get big companies and insurance companies to pay them instead of fighting in court. The payout does not prove that vaccines are bad. That is a weak case that would be destroyed in a debate. You'll have to do better than that.

 

[surfer14]

How can a conspiracy thinker regain trust in the system and participate again?
I’m a little too hard on myself and the system with this. I simply don’t trust them (politics, science, healthcare, educational system) and can’t allow myself to bend a knee here.
So it ends up taking my social life and I might end up on the short end depressed and broke...

Coming from the pit once I know how easily it’s all lost. They way down is always faster then the way up....
But I just can’t seem to get up this time... This conspiracy is just too obvious and they lied too much and taken us for fools too many times.

“You can’t fool all the people all the time.”

Hey Fundamental,

Everything I thought I ever knew has turned out to be a lie. The only thing that's lasted has been Jesus.

I don't buy into anything they say anymore. In fact my general policy, is that whatever the official line about any given subject is - that is just the thing that we can be sure did NOT happen. They lie continually as a matter of course. Anyone with a brain can see this. Who controls the "kingdoms of the Earth"? It is Satan. Satan is the father of lies.

So don't get discouraged. Instead be uplifted because you at least know of the one truth out there that is rock solid. Jesus. "I am the way, the truth and the life..." Pilot was flummoxed by the same question that anyone who recognizes the lies will be bound to start asking themselves - "What is truth?" The answer was standing right there in front of him!! But you know that answer. Jesus!!

Jesus said it would be crazy in the days ahead. The fact that it is indeed crazy, should give us all more faith and more peace because we can see how correct that Jesus was when he said that. I just latch onto that like set of vice grips. And that's what I suggest you do also.

Take heart my brother. Don't listen to the bleating of the sheep when they ignore what you can plainly see. Don't let them gaslight you. Don't bend the knee - even in your mind. Cause that's what they want - your mind, and your soul.

 

[surfer14]

Hey @Fundamental

Here's one more thing I do, that you might consider.

I keep a solid silver coin in my wallet at all times. Why? Because it's something solid and tangible that I can put my fingers on. It's not some disk shaped, pot metal, counterfeit currency that they mandate we use. It's real. It's not a lie. It's silvery colored because it's actually real silver.

I keep it as a reminder that truth does indeed exist. There are some things out there that are still real.

 

[PC123]

Litigation is not really a proper measurement for the validity of vaccines. People can sue for any reason and often companies pay settlements when there is the probability of a long legal battle. This has been the history of the American legal system and the reason everyone wants their kids to be lawyers so they can get rich trying to get big companies and insurance companies to pay them instead of fighting in court. The payout does not prove that vaccines are bad. That is a weak case that would be destroyed in a debate. You'll have to do better than that.

So despite billions of dollars being paid out to victims of vaccine injuries, you still claim their safe...
Despite vaccines having a long list of potential side effects listed by the manufacturer, you still claim they are safe...
And despite many doctors including Fauci saying that vaccines can never be safe, you still claim they are safe...

This kind of denial or blatant lies only serves to increase people skepticism...
It seems to me you are stubbornly and belligerently holding fast to your irrational and illogical error...
All drugs have potential side effects including vaccines...