Not By Works

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Skovand said:
Faith is different from belief. Faith is belief and works. Believing the truth but not living it won’t save you any more than rejecting the truth but living righteously.

You can believe the Bible, snd believe in the story, and yet still stand before Christ and he say go away I never knew you evil doers.
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That has nothing to do with what I said.......faith plus works for = false gospel with no powet to save!
 
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Skovand said:
No they believed in Christ.
so workless faith, even if you believe, is meaningless then.... so we agree... lol
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They addressed Him as Lord (as a title), however they trusted in their works and therefore Jesus who did not know them, HE clearly states "departs from me I never knew you."

It was actually their works that were the hindrance to them being known by Jesus.

There is only one faith/one belief that saves and brings redemption, we come to Him on His terms. It is actually easy to believe wrong that is why the road is narrow and few find it.
 
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Skovand said:
James 2:19
New American Standard Bible

19 You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.


Matthew 7:21-23
New American Standard Bible


21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

Those in the second set of verses not only believed in Jesus but they performed miracles in his name and were condemned.

This is why systemic theology is required. At first glance the verses seem to contradict one another. But in reality they don’t, they simply shed more light. So it seems, belief alone is not enough.
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In Matthew 7:22 they are stating " Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?"

These words they are saying are all pointing to works they were doing but they said nothing of the work Jesus did for them on the cross. They did not say to Jesus, didn't you come for us? Didn't you paid the penalty for our sins on the cross? Instead they spoke of their own good deeds done in his name.
 
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EleventhHour said:
They addressed Him as Lord (as a title), however they trusted in their works and therefore Jesus who did not know them, HE clearly states "departs from me I never knew you."

It was actually their works that were the hindrance to them being known by Jesus.

There is only one faith/one belief that saves and brings redemption, we come to Him on His terms. It is actually easy to believe wrong that is why the road is narrow and few find it.
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You’re right. It was their works , fruit of the flesh , that showed they were not disciples even though they believed in him.
CherieR said:
In Matthew 7:22 they are stating " Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?"

These words they are saying are all pointing to works they were doing but they said nothing of the work Jesus did for them on the cross. They did not say to Jesus, didn't you come for us? Didn't you paid the penalty for our sins on the cross? Instead they spoke of their own good deeds done in his name.
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it did not have too. They were doing miracles in the name of Jesus because they believed in Jesus. Otherwise they would not have done it in his name.
 
Skovand said:
Yes actually it does mean they believed. They heard the gospel and was convicted of its truth. That exactly means they believed.

Repent means to turn around in its truest sense. The nuance of it in scripturally mostly means to rejected wickedness and lies and pursue the opposite.
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What they were convicted of in context of what Peter stated is guilt in their how they were complicit in the death of Jesus.

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

And I still do not see any works in Peter's words,

repent>>> not a work,

baptism>> not a work for salvation.
 
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Skovand said:
You’re right. It was their works , fruit of the flesh , that showed they were not disciples even though they believed in him.

it did not have too. They were doing miracles in the name of Jesus because they believed in Jesus. Otherwise they would not have done it in his name.
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They did not believe IN Him, they believed in themselves, their works, that is the point .... if they had believed IN HIM, He would have KNOWN them.
 
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Skovand said:
You’re right. It was their works , fruit of the flesh , that showed they were not disciples even though they believed in him.

it did not have too. They were doing miracles in the name of Jesus because they believed in Jesus. Otherwise they would not have done it in his name.
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Dude, you just contradicted yourself.....in that one set of verses Jesus covers all religions that blend faith PLUS works to gain, maintain, keep or embellish salvation and entrance into the kingdom.

He does not say they were not doing works IN HIS NAME just as MOST so called Christian religions do to this very day......

Oh, foolish Galatians, who had BEWITCHED THEE.....?

Having BEGUN IN THE SPIRIT (Faith) are you NOW MADE COMPLETE (perfect) by WORKS.

Nowhere does the bible teach a faith plus anything for salvation.....regardless of any and ALL that try to take it there or make it say such a thing!!
 
Skovand said:
That’s not what it says though. That’s something only forced into a text because of Calvinism.
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This is hilarious...go read the Calvinite thread, now closed for further replies....and then say her belief is skewed by Calvinism.....wow man, you have a lot to learn!
 
CherieR said:
In Matthew 7:22 they are stating " Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?"

These words they are saying are all pointing to works they were doing but they said nothing of the work Jesus did for them on the cross. They did not say to Jesus, didn't you come for us? Didn't you paid the penalty for our sins on the cross? Instead they spoke of their own good deeds done in his name.
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Has Jesus even told anyone he will die on the cross for sins yet in Matthew 7?

When did people Understand that truth?
 
EleventhHour said:
What they were convicted of in context of what Peter stated is guilt in their how they were complicit in the death of Jesus.

“Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

And I still do not see any works in Peter's words,

repent>>> not a work,

baptism>> not a work for salvation.
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Then what is water baptism to you, if it’s not a work done by man?
 
dcontroversal said:
Dude, you just contradicted yourself.....in that one set of verses Jesus covers all religions that blend faith PLUS works to gain, maintain, keep or embellish salvation and entrance into the kingdom.

He does not say they were not doing works IN HIS NAME just as MOST so called Christian religions do to this very day......

Oh, foolish Galatians, who had BEWITCHED THEE.....?

Having BEGUN IN THE SPIRIT (Faith) are you NOW MADE COMPLETE (perfect) by WORKS.

Nowhere does the bible teach a faith plus anything for salvation.....regardless of any and ALL that try to take it there or make it say such a thing!!
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Funny .. ... I missed completely that contradiction completely.

He does not say they were not doing works IN HIS NAME
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Nope He definitely did not.
 
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Guojing said:
Has Jesus even told anyone he will die on the cross for sins yet in Matthew 7?

When did people Understand that truth?
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My point being that the people in Matthew 7 that Jesus spoke of were depending on themselves, their works and not looking to Jesus for entry into heaven.
 
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CherieR said:
My point being that the people in Matthew 7 that Jesus spoke of were depending on themselves, their works and not looking to Jesus for entry into heaven.
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So to be precise, works were necessary during Jesus time on Earth for the Jews to be saved. (Luke 10:28)

Its just that its not sufficient by itself, Israel needed to also believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah and Son of God too (John 20:31)
 
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