"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".
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All scripture was written for us. Not all scripture is written to us.
Scripture Study Tips
When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^^^
So, ask: Who is writing? Who’s it written to? What are the circumstances? What’s the context before? What's the context after?
Invariably Matt 24:13 is posted, OUT OF CONTEXT. Remove the TEXT and all that's left is the CON!
Matt 24:13 Proper Context. Who is the speaker? JESUS
Context: Who is Jesus speaking to? Verse 2 still under the law Jewish disciples. This is day 3 of passion week. The Holy Spirit has yet to be given, therefore, no Body of Christ/Christian exist.
Context: What is Jesus speaking about? Verse 3 the end of the age. The end of your life? NO!
Context: Verses 4-13 The prophecy here parallels the END TIME seal judgments:
Matt 24: Vs 5 - Rev 6:2 false Christs, Vs 6 - Rev 6:3&4 war, Vs 7 - Rev: 5&6, Famine, Vs 6&7 - Rev 6:7&8 death, Vs 9-13 - Rev 6:6-11 martyer's
Matt 24:14 the gospel of the kingdom =100% under the law Jewish doctrine. Quote: "and then shall the end come". The end of one's life? NO!
Vs 15 references Daniel & the abomination of desolation
Vs 16 let those where? in Judea! NOT A CHURCH GOER IN THE USA!
Vs 21 there shall be great tribulation. In your life? No! Vs 27 Christ returns. Vs 29 After the tribulation of those days, NOT your life!
Context: Matt 24 Jesus is speaking to "Jews only about Israel's Future" Foretelling the tribulation period to come. BTW the tribulation is referred to as JACOB/ISRAELS TROUBLE. Jeremiah 30:7
When reading Vs 13, he who endures to the end. One must take from scripture via context. Not add to scripture one's own false non-contextual, doctrinal narrative.
Example:
Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Ok, Jesus tells his disciples DON'T go to gentiles. Would we be correct to broad brush this statement Jesus made here & apply it to the Church today? We can't broadly paint future the Body of Christ into Matt 10 or Matt 24
Scripture Study Tips
When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.
^^^^^Myles Coverdale, Bible theologian/translator^^^^^
So, ask: Who is writing? Who’s it written to? What are the circumstances? What’s the context before? What's the context after?
Invariably Matt 24:13 is posted, OUT OF CONTEXT. Remove the TEXT and all that's left is the CON!
Matt 24:13 Proper Context. Who is the speaker? JESUS
Context: Who is Jesus speaking to? Verse 2 still under the law Jewish disciples. This is day 3 of passion week. The Holy Spirit has yet to be given, therefore, no Body of Christ/Christian exist.
Context: What is Jesus speaking about? Verse 3 the end of the age. The end of your life? NO!
Context: Verses 4-13 The prophecy here parallels the END TIME seal judgments:
Matt 24: Vs 5 - Rev 6:2 false Christs, Vs 6 - Rev 6:3&4 war, Vs 7 - Rev: 5&6, Famine, Vs 6&7 - Rev 6:7&8 death, Vs 9-13 - Rev 6:6-11 martyer's
Matt 24:14 the gospel of the kingdom =100% under the law Jewish doctrine. Quote: "and then shall the end come". The end of one's life? NO!
Vs 15 references Daniel & the abomination of desolation
Vs 16 let those where? in Judea! NOT A CHURCH GOER IN THE USA!
Vs 21 there shall be great tribulation. In your life? No! Vs 27 Christ returns. Vs 29 After the tribulation of those days, NOT your life!
Context: Matt 24 Jesus is speaking to "Jews only about Israel's Future" Foretelling the tribulation period to come. BTW the tribulation is referred to as JACOB/ISRAELS TROUBLE. Jeremiah 30:7
When reading Vs 13, he who endures to the end. One must take from scripture via context. Not add to scripture one's own false non-contextual, doctrinal narrative.
Example:
Matt 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Ok, Jesus tells his disciples DON'T go to gentiles. Would we be correct to broad brush this statement Jesus made here & apply it to the Church today? We can't broadly paint future the Body of Christ into Matt 10 or Matt 24
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The understanding of the role the Lord gives work and faith is almost always misunderstood by our carnal minds. It is true that those who don't work are not saved, and that is a difficult concept to understand because it is our faith and not our works that the Lord sees. We are born in sin, we simply cannot work well enough to achieve the righteousness the Lord must have. This is only possible through Christ. At the very same time, we are to give our sin to Christ for forgiveness, and if we desire to live in sin and not with Christ, then we are not saved. It is not possible to give the Lord our perfect behavior and thoughts, for we are mortal, but we can give our will to Him.
Calvinism has always been false. It doesn't hold to OSAS at all. It holds to OSPAS. Only Special People Are Saved. Which is a Satanic teaching building itself on pride and egocentrism.
With those scriptures that seem to teach one thing and then counter with the other I believe what God is telling us is to trust the leading of the indwelling holy spirit. Not the drafts of man.
Humans were destined to fall in the beginning. God will eternally know more than we and be wiser still. Imagine having to please that which is eternally alive, eternally aware, and everywhere and within all things created eternally as creator of it all. And then, being afraid of that power and disappointing it.
Talk about high expectations and hurdles unable to overcome.
I think also, when we read the scripture, at least when I do, I cannot help but observe the politics of men and the societal constructs of firstly the Hebrew culture, OT, and that of the Roman, NT.
If I think God is only to be found in the Bible, I'm already on the wrong path.
Think more of God than what you're told.
Calvinism is one of the greatest examples of what happens when we fail to do that. Roman Catholicism, Pagan-Christianity, is the second.
God loves you.
When you're told God hates, that's man that hates you and hopes you believe this about God.
Think about it. God is Omniscient.
Sealed eternally and indwelt with God, the holy spirit. Before I would even think to believe God can turn from me, I'd want to see the scripture that tells me God unseals me, evicts himself from me, and remains Omniscient.
Why would he go to all those steps in his grace to redeem me and make me a new creation knowing down the road he'd have to reverse the whole deal and return me to what I formerly was. A damned dead in her sins sinner.
What's that say about God's foreknowledge?
Not a lot.
That's how you know it isn't God. It is man, playing God.
And they'll answer for that too.
With those scriptures that seem to teach one thing and then counter with the other I believe what God is telling us is to trust the leading of the indwelling holy spirit. Not the drafts of man.
Humans were destined to fall in the beginning. God will eternally know more than we and be wiser still. Imagine having to please that which is eternally alive, eternally aware, and everywhere and within all things created eternally as creator of it all. And then, being afraid of that power and disappointing it.
Talk about high expectations and hurdles unable to overcome.
I think also, when we read the scripture, at least when I do, I cannot help but observe the politics of men and the societal constructs of firstly the Hebrew culture, OT, and that of the Roman, NT.
If I think God is only to be found in the Bible, I'm already on the wrong path.
Think more of God than what you're told.
Calvinism is one of the greatest examples of what happens when we fail to do that. Roman Catholicism, Pagan-Christianity, is the second.
God loves you.
When you're told God hates, that's man that hates you and hopes you believe this about God.
Think about it. God is Omniscient.
Sealed eternally and indwelt with God, the holy spirit. Before I would even think to believe God can turn from me, I'd want to see the scripture that tells me God unseals me, evicts himself from me, and remains Omniscient.
Why would he go to all those steps in his grace to redeem me and make me a new creation knowing down the road he'd have to reverse the whole deal and return me to what I formerly was. A damned dead in her sins sinner.
What's that say about God's foreknowledge?
Not a lot.
That's how you know it isn't God. It is man, playing God.
And they'll answer for that too.
In many places we are told that the Holy Spirt ' seals ' the believer After we recieve Jesus ( john1.12) and that He remains all the way as to the redemption of the body .The seal is the Guarantee until the purchased possession. Eph 1 .13 -14 .
And respectfully you have just made the whole point of the OP . That people mis use this verse ( or misunderstand) And are then sold a works focused salvation, worldview.
Even calvinism .
And respectfully you have just made the whole point of the OP . That people mis use this verse ( or misunderstand) And are then sold a works focused salvation, worldview.
Even calvinism .
The mention of The mormons and Jehovah's_Witnesses is because they are trying to ' endure till the end to be saved . This is as we know is the reason they are knocking on our doors all the time . Because as part of their ' Enduring ' this preaching work is a part of their list in order to remain in Jehovah witness organisation, therefore remain with God . in speaking to these groups we would be surprised by the verses you may be using to support the doctrines you hold, they are also using . like this one above as in keeping with what is commonly known as ' works salvation'
Whoa, that is a total misunderstanding of Scripture: You said, "No one was born again in the OT either."
Of course they were. Salvation for the OT saints happens in the same way as NT saints. There are not two different salvations. The OT saints were born again but did not possess the Holy Spirit in the same measure as after Christ sent Him as comforter. All the things from the OT were types and shadows leading up to the times of Christ. God gave them the same spiritual birth as today, based on the finished work of Jesus Christ in the future.
The misunderstanding, of national Israel, was to this point. The covenant with Abraham was a type. A promise of something greater. It of itself cannot save. One must remember what the Apostle Paul said,
Rom_9:6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nothing. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel:
Rom_9:27 And Isaiah cried out concerning Israel, If the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that shall be saved:
This was the correct understanding about salvation. This is why our Lord said,
Luke 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham as our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
Then again Paul said,
Rom 9:30-33 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, who followed not after righteousness, attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith: but Israel, following after a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by works. They stumbled at the stone of stumbling; even as it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence: And he that believeth on him shall not be put to shame.
This was the failed understanding of national Israel. They made faith a work. But this did not include the ones God gave faith too. That is the true Israel out of Israel, spoken of in Rom. 9:6.
This is proven in that Nicodemus was criticized by Jesus Christ, in John 3:10:
John 3:7-10 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born anew. The wind is blowing where it will, and you are hearing the voice thereof, but do not know from where it coming from, and where it is going: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou the teacher of Israel, and are not understanding these things?
This is very early in our Lord's Earthly ministry. If Nicodemus had God given faith, he would have understood. He would have been teaching in Israel, the things which one should have known, about the workings of salvation. By Christ's criticism, we can see that salvation has always worked the same and Nicodemus was teaching the heresy of works, instead of salvation of faith.
There will come a time, when God turns His attention back to National Israel in the Tribulation days but all Israel will still not be Israel.
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This response by Got questions is interesting .
When Jesus says, “The one who endures to the end will be saved” (Matthew 24:13, ESV), He is speaking of those who are truly born again, whose lives are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit. True followers of Jesus Christ will withstand the onslaught of wickedness, recognize and reject false teaching, and cling fast to the truth of God’s Word. They will overcome this world and be granted reward in the world to come (Revelation 3:21). Those who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22) have His power working in them to enable them to stand firm (Romans 14:4; Jude 1:24–25).
Got questions .4 point calvinism
How far off are they and why ?
probably out of the options above most might opt for this explanation. But as some have stated ( and i agree ) this verse is not talking about believers during this time that from the moment of conversion till death we have to withstand the onslaught of wickedness, recognize and reject false teaching, and cling fast to the truth of God’s Word. They will overcome this world and be granted reward in the world to come ( sounds right on the surface) But then Got Q continues
""Those who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22) have His power working in them to enable them to stand firm (/Romans 14:4; Jude 1:24–25).
I say Amen to all the verses but then the last part is where we see the issue with the P in Tulip . //to enable them to stand firm // Now if you re read with this in mind . Calvinism starts with the T which leads to needing Irresistible Grace ,with this comes regeneration preceds faith . This is the idea that your born again before you can repent and before you can believe . Both repentance and Faith are of course a gift by God given . Now no one in their right mind who ever read their Bible all the way through would ever come to this conclusion. Thats why you need to swallow the Flower . Unconditional Election / Limited Atonement now unless you want to be labelled a semi pelagien/ universalist you are then sucked into the system accepting the idea that spiritual deadness is akin to physical deadness .
This all leads to the P . preservation/ perseverance of the saints . And this is where we hear " He who endures to the end shall be saved ."
So ironically although Calvinism
Being born again was made possible by the resurrection.1 pet1.3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
When Jesus says, “The one who endures to the end will be saved” (Matthew 24:13, ESV), He is speaking of those who are truly born again, whose lives are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit. True followers of Jesus Christ will withstand the onslaught of wickedness, recognize and reject false teaching, and cling fast to the truth of God’s Word. They will overcome this world and be granted reward in the world to come (Revelation 3:21). Those who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22) have His power working in them to enable them to stand firm (Romans 14:4; Jude 1:24–25).
Got questions .4 point calvinism
How far off are they and why ?
probably out of the options above most might opt for this explanation. But as some have stated ( and i agree ) this verse is not talking about believers during this time that from the moment of conversion till death we have to withstand the onslaught of wickedness, recognize and reject false teaching, and cling fast to the truth of God’s Word. They will overcome this world and be granted reward in the world to come ( sounds right on the surface) But then Got Q continues
""Those who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22) have His power working in them to enable them to stand firm (/Romans 14:4; Jude 1:24–25).
I say Amen to all the verses but then the last part is where we see the issue with the P in Tulip . //to enable them to stand firm // Now if you re read with this in mind . Calvinism starts with the T which leads to needing Irresistible Grace ,with this comes regeneration preceds faith . This is the idea that your born again before you can repent and before you can believe . Both repentance and Faith are of course a gift by God given . Now no one in their right mind who ever read their Bible all the way through would ever come to this conclusion. Thats why you need to swallow the Flower . Unconditional Election / Limited Atonement now unless you want to be labelled a semi pelagien/ universalist you are then sucked into the system accepting the idea that spiritual deadness is akin to physical deadness .
This all leads to the P . preservation/ perseverance of the saints . And this is where we hear " He who endures to the end shall be saved ."
So ironically although Calvinism
Being born again was made possible by the resurrection.1 pet1.3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
///There will come a time, when God turns His attention back to National Israel in the Tribulation// yes when God will give them a new Heart Eze 36.26
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
ISRAEL.
26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
28And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
ISRAEL.
The quotes you have made here from Ezekiel, are the OT prophesies given to Israel, during the time of the Tribulation, when God turns His attention to national Israel. These verses still show the need for being Born of the Spirit. The Holy spirit, is the agent, carrying out the Father's will. He puts into a person a new heart and a new spirit. Replacing the one which has been rendered useless.
We must ask then, Why is it necessary to replace these? If man is not in a state of spiritual depravity, then everything should be good. Right? He just needs to be preached to. Right?
As to your earlier point, where you said: Understanding about being born again and being born again are not the same .Ref Nicodemus.
I never said they were. But since Nicodemus, was a teacher of Israel, it is obvious from Christ's reaction, a good teacher would have known these things. This is what I said earlier. Because this statement is a fact, one then knows at the time of this conversation, Nicodemus, was not born again.
Some of you are so bent upon defending your point of view, that:
1) You do not bother to read and examine an entire post.
2) Because of this come to wrong conclusions.
3) Really are not interested in having your ideas tested but rather talk things around in circles, with what you believe are clever little comments.
4) Rarely, put fourth a well thought out position.
5) Love to throw sound thinking into a heap, the moment you here terms like Calvinist, Arminian and so forth.
Is this the proper way to conduct a reasonable discussion?
While I agree with your earlier post, the word save or saved does not always mean salvation is in view, are you saying that in: Mat 24:13, But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved. Is in the physical sense and not the salvation sense.?
Because this would be an incorrect idea. I f we look at the companion verse in Mark, we will see something Matthew did not record:
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
We can see here that these are believers in Christ, so the promise should be seen as hope for their eternal salvation and physical safety.
Or did I misunderstand the point you were making?