"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".

throughfaith · Aug 27, 2020

Enduring to the end is keeping those promises throughout our lives—no matter what. It means we don't quit because of life's difficulties or temptations. Conversely, failing to endure means backing away from what we've started—first promising loyalty to God and then withholding what we promised. ( LDS ) Mormons

THE way that leads to life is not an easy one. It is not for those wishing to follow the lines of least resistance. Fair-weather friends will not last long on it. It is a way being trod, not by the many, but by the few: “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.”—Matt. 7:13, 14, NW. Jehovah witnesses

To get on the road that leads to life we must dedicate ourselves to the service of Jehovah God and then continue therein in spite of all the opposition that the world and the Devil can bring against us. As Jesus stated: “He that has endured to the finish is the one that will be saved.”—Matt. 24:13, NW.
Jehovah witnesses

teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” (Matt. 24:13; cf. 25:31–46). One who dies in the state of friendship with God (the state of grace) will go to heaven. The one who dies in a state of enmity and rebellion against God (the state of mortal sin) will go to hell.
Catholic .

Only some believers will endure till the end and be saved, according to Matthew 24:13. Other believers who fall away are not saved and, thus, OSAS is not valid.
David Pawson , Wesleyan Arminian

When Jesus says, “The one who endures to the end will be saved” (Matthew 24:13, ESV), He is speaking of those who are truly born again, whose lives are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit. True followers of Jesus Christ will withstand the onslaught of wickedness, recognize and reject false teaching, and cling fast to the truth of God’s Word. They will overcome this world and be granted reward in the world to come (Revelation 3:21). Those who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22) have His power working in them to enable them to stand firm (Romans 14:4; Jude 1:24–25).
Got questions .4 point calvinism

I believe everyone of these has misunderstood Jesus words " endure till the end to be saved " . As my position is that Jesus is talking about the Tribulation. Its not referring to beleivers in 2020 from the beginning of their 'conversion ' until they die as taught above . This would be salvation by works .
Not to be provocative but I have included The Jehovah witness , mormons ect ,because over the years in conversation with such groups the number one verse to support their theology is " endure to the end to be saved " .. Followed closely by " faith without works is dead "
Calvinsm also holds to a similar view but of course does hold to OSAS . However the misunderstanding of the verse is the same . And I believe does lead to a works based ' mind set ' and certainly Lordship salvation .
thoughts ?

Corban · Aug 28, 2020

throughfaith said:

Well .... "enduring" is a work. It takes effort and is costly.

But the text and the context will tell the story. In Matthew 24 our Lord provoked a sentiment deepest in the Jew - His Temple. He predicted its destruction. As you can see from Acts of the Apostles, the future of Israel was of intense interest to the Apostles. And Israel's past and future was an ever present theme for the average Jew. So when the disciples asked our Lord Jesus about the events surround His Second Coming, our Lord, in the gospel of Matthew, showed these events as they pertained to the Jew, the Church and the Nations (or Gentiles). Without prejudice, let us examine our Lord's answer:

In verses 1-3 our Lord, unprovoked by any questions, predicts the end of the center of Jewish religion - their Temple
In verse 4-5 our Lord warns of false Christs. The Church knows Who Christ is and where He is now, and the Nations don't care. A False Christ is a Jewish problem because they, having rejected their Messiah, still look for Him
In verse 9 predicts affliction for the disciples. Now the Name of Jesus and what He stands for is hated by the Nations and disciples are hated and persecuted. But history will show that the largest persecution, by far, was because the Jews are accused by Christianity of being responsible for His death. Thus, verse 9 could mean either disciples of Jesus or the Jews
Verse 11 predicts many false prophets. The Church is not warned of false prophets, but false "teachers". Thus, false prophets was, and will be, a Jewish problem (2nd Pet.2:1)
Verse 14 does not say, "YOU will preach the gospel ...". It says "The gospel will be preached ... .". It thus does not address the disciples but some distant disciples. The verse is from a Jewish viewpoint not the viewpoint of a disciple.
Verse 15 concerns a Jewish prophet, prophesying about "Daniel's People" in a Jewish Temple
Verse 16 only concerns "Judea" a Jewish tribal land
Verse 20 concerns the Sabbath, part of the Law of Moses, which was given ONLY to Israel
Verse 24 again warns of false Christs and false prophets - a Jewish problem
Verse 28 concerns the battle of Armageddon - 70 miles west of Jerusalem - Israel
Verse 30 predicts the REVEALING of Jesus from the clouds. As He is predicted to touch down on Mount Olives, His REVEALING will be over Jerusalem, capital of Israel
Verse 31 predicts a gathering of a certain "elect". Who they are is clearly said in that they are a people who were scattered to the "four winds". Only Israel was scattered to the four winds (Jer.49:36; Zech.2:6)

So it is overwhelmingly shown that Matthew 24:1-31 concerns ISRAEL. Therefore, verse 13 must be taken in context of Israel.

The next thing is that we have to define the word "saved". All will agree that the word "saved" in the Bible has many different aspects. Noah was "saved" FROM water by the Ark. But the Christian is "saved" from a bad conscience BY water (of Baptism) (1st Pet.3:20-21). Israel were "saved" BY water when the Red Sea closed and destroyed the army of Egypt. Ephesians 2:8 says that "salvation" is by FAITH, but Philippians 2:12 says that we must "work out" our OWN salvation. And Christian woman can be "saved" by childbearing - a totally different thing only open to fruitful women. So what does it mean when an Israelite is "saved"? After all, Israel rejected Christ and Romans 11:25 and 32 says that they will be in unbelief until the time of the gentiles are full. So the "saved" of Romans 11:26 cannot be the same as Ephesians 2:8.

Israel's "salvation" is a NATIONAL salvation. It does not apply to the individual. Israel had two great advantages; (i) They had the Covenant made with Abraham which is called "the Covenant of PROMISE" for their LAND, and (ii) the have the prophets which predict a NATIONAL RESTORATION of Israel to God and to their LAND. To Abraham was Promised for him and his seed, the Land of Canaan. And the condition for gaining this Land for an "everlasting possession" is CIRCUMCISION. The prophets, prophesying under inspiration, PROMISE a national restoration of Israel as ONE NATION in their Land. In Luke Chapter 1, Zacharias, "full of the Holy Spirit", predicted:

That Jesus was the "horn of salvation for Israel" (v.68-69)
That Jesus would be King as he came from the "House of David" (v.68)
That God, via Jesus had "redeemed His People" (v.68)
That this recovery was predicted by the prophets of old (v.70)
That Israel would be saved from her enemies (v.71)
That the Covenant of PROMISE to Abraham was not forgotten (v.72-73)
That having been saved from their enemies, would serve God once in their Land (because it needs a Temple for a Jew to serve)
That Israel would be turned from their sinning ways (by the New Covenant - Jer.31:31-33)
That John would prepare the way of the Lord Who will "give knowledge of salvation for Israel" (v.77)
That Israel's sins would be remitted (v.77)
That God would extend mercy to Israel (v.78)
That Israel would have peace (v.79)

Now, the meaning of "saved" for Israel is established, and what then is "salvation" for the individual who "ENDURES" to the end. We have a clue in the context. THE END is set as "the Abomination of Desolation" two verses later. What does the Abomination of Desolation achieve? The run-up to the Abomination of Desolation is the "daily oblation" (Dan.9:27) - a part of the Law of Moses. Then, the AoD sets up a Gentile king in the Holy of Holies. And he in turn sets up an idol effigy there - ALL AGAINST THE LAW OF MOSES. So one who "ENDURES" to the end is a Jew who testifies and warns that what Israel are doing is UNLAWFUL, a Jew who opposes this breach of Law. The Temple is called, in 2nd Thessalonian 2:4, - "the Temple of God". What Israel are doing is a total overthrow of the Laws that give God His place in Israel. The individual Israelite has the opportunity to OPPOSE the pact with the Beast.

And to confirm this all, what was the CONDITION for Israel's recovery??? What must Israel do to be gathered from the "four winds". It is anchored in the Law of Moses. NO VERSE says that Israel must believe in Jesus to be restored. The CONDITION for Israel's recovery is that they RETURN TO THE LAW with all their heart and soul. Deuteronomy 30:1-5 promises and predicts;

1 "And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers."

So all that must be established is, "What was Moses COMMANDING THAT DAY?" He was expounding the LAW! Israel will be recovered when the Remnant predcited in Romans 9 and 11 turn back to the Law with all their heart and soul. And the man of Matthew 24:13 is ONE OF THESE. He is a man who does not join apostate Israel and worship the AoD, AND WHO ENDURES TH CONSEQUENCES OF BUCKING THE BEAST, not because he wants to be Messiah, but because his presence, and the presence of his idol BREAK THE LAW OF MOSES.

Now, I know somebody will raise a vehement objection that only faith in Jesus can save. My answer is ready. "Read my paragraph on the various meanings of salvation AGAIN! I do not discuss the salvation to be had by FAITH in Jesus. Nor do I discuss how the ark SAVED Noah. I discuss the fulfillment of God's PROMISE to give Israel a Land as an "everlasting possession".

crossnote · Aug 28, 2020

throughfaith said:

When Jesus says, “The one who endures to the end will be saved” (Matthew 24:13, ESV), He is speaking of those who are truly born again, whose lives are transformed by the power of the Holy Spirit. True followers of Jesus Christ will withstand the onslaught of wickedness, recognize and reject false teaching, and cling fast to the truth of God’s Word. They will overcome this world and be granted reward in the world to come (Revelation 3:21). Those who have been sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption (Ephesians 1:13; 4:30; 2 Corinthians 1:22) have His power working in them to enable them to stand firm (Romans 14:4; Jude 1:24–25).
Got questions .4 point calvinism

I believe everyone of these has misunderstood Jesus words " endure till the end to be saved " . As my position is that Jesus is talking about the Tribulation. Its not referring to beleivers in 2020 from the beginning of their 'conversion ' until they die as taught above . This would be salvation by works

So, are you saying tribulation saints won't be born again?
Although the context of Mt 24:13 is the tribulation, I believe the principle stated by GotQuestions is universal.

notuptome · Aug 28, 2020

These saints are not saved by enduring but saved after enduring. They simply did not die in the tribulation and saw Christ at the end of the tribulation. They recognized Christ and believed into Him seeing Christ fulfill the prophecy of His return to Jerusalem.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

John146 · Aug 28, 2020

notuptome said:

Yes, physically surviving...

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

TheDivineWatermark · Aug 28, 2020

throughfaith said:

Agreed.

A great many people take this passage out of context and misapply it.

I agree also with [member] John146 ^ (his post above mine).

throughfaith · Aug 28, 2020

crossnote said:

No because of the rapture of believers ,in dwelt with the Holy Spirit . We wont be in the Tribulation.

TheDivineWatermark said:

Amen .

Nehemiah6 · Aug 28, 2020

throughfaith said:

Correct. This corresponds to Revelation 3:10: Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

crossnote · Aug 28, 2020

throughfaith said:

I was talking about Tribulation saints regenerated, not those indwelt by the Holy Spirit. Or will those Tribulation saints not see the Kingdom of God because as you hold, they are not born again?

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

throughfaith · Aug 28, 2020

crossnote said:

They will be the same as those before the Giving of the Holy Spirit ( John 7.39) No one was born again in the OT either.

Jackson123 · Aug 28, 2020

Corban said:

Well .... "enduring" is a work. It takes effort and is costly.

But the text and the context will tell the story. In Matthew 24 our Lord provoked a sentiment deepest in the Jew - His Temple. He predicted its destruction. As you can see from Acts of the Apostles, the future of Israel was of intense interest to the Apostles. And Israel's past and future was an ever present theme for the average Jew. So when the disciples asked our Lord Jesus about the events surround His Second Coming, our Lord, in the gospel of Matthew, showed these events as they pertained to the Jew, the Church and the Nations (or Gentiles). Without prejudice, let us examine our Lord's answer:

In verses 1-3 our Lord, unprovoked by any questions, predicts the end of the center of Jewish religion - their Temple
In verse 4-5 our Lord warns of false Christs. The Church knows Who Christ is and where He is now, and the Nations don't care. A False Christ is a Jewish problem because they, having rejected their Messiah, still look for Him
In verse 9 predicts affliction for the disciples. Now the Name of Jesus and what He stands for is hated by the Nations and disciples are hated and persecuted. But history will show that the largest persecution, by far, was because the Jews are accused by Christianity of being responsible for His death. Thus, verse 9 could mean either disciples of Jesus or the Jews
Verse 11 predicts many false prophets. The Church is not warned of false prophets, but false "teachers". Thus, false prophets was, and will be, a Jewish problem (2nd Pet.2:1)
Verse 14 does not say, "YOU will preach the gospel ...". It says "The gospel will be preached ... .". It thus does not address the disciples but some distant disciples. The verse is from a Jewish viewpoint not the viewpoint of a disciple.
Verse 15 concerns a Jewish prophet, prophesying about "Daniel's People" in a Jewish Temple
Verse 16 only concerns "Judea" a Jewish tribal land
Verse 20 concerns the Sabbath, part of the Law of Moses, which was given ONLY to Israel
Verse 24 again warns of false Christs and false prophets - a Jewish problem
Verse 28 concerns the battle of Armageddon - 70 miles west of Jerusalem - Israel
Verse 30 predicts the REVEALING of Jesus from the clouds. As He is predicted to touch down on Mount Olives, His REVEALING will be over Jerusalem, capital of Israel
Verse 31 predicts a gathering of a certain "elect". Who they are is clearly said in that they are a people who were scattered to the "four winds". Only Israel was scattered to the four winds (Jer.49:36; Zech.2:6)

So it is overwhelmingly shown that Matthew 24:1-31 concerns ISRAEL. Therefore, verse 13 must be taken in context of Israel.

The next thing is that we have to define the word "saved". All will agree that the word "saved" in the Bible has many different aspects. Noah was "saved" FROM water by the Ark. But the Christian is "saved" from a bad conscience BY water (of Baptism) (1st Pet.3:20-21). Israel were "saved" BY water when the Red Sea closed and destroyed the army of Egypt. Ephesians 2:8 says that "salvation" is by FAITH, but Philippians 2:12 says that we must "work out" our OWN salvation. And Christian woman can be "saved" by childbearing - a totally different thing only open to fruitful women. So what does it mean when an Israelite is "saved"? After all, Israel rejected Christ and Romans 11:25 and 32 says that they will be in unbelief until the time of the gentiles are full. So the "saved" of Romans 11:26 cannot be the same as Ephesians 2:8.

Israel's "salvation" is a NATIONAL salvation. It does not apply to the individual. Israel had two great advantages; (i) They had the Covenant made with Abraham which is called "the Covenant of PROMISE" for their LAND, and (ii) the have the prophets which predict a NATIONAL RESTORATION of Israel to God and to their LAND. To Abraham was Promised for him and his seed, the Land of Canaan. And the condition for gaining this Land for an "everlasting possession" is CIRCUMCISION. The prophets, prophesying under inspiration, PROMISE a national restoration of Israel as ONE NATION in their Land. In Luke Chapter 1, Zacharias, "full of the Holy Spirit", predicted:

That Jesus was the "horn of salvation for Israel" (v.68-69)
That Jesus would be King as he came from the "House of David" (v.68)
That God, via Jesus had "redeemed His People" (v.68)
That this recovery was predicted by the prophets of old (v.70)
That Israel would be saved from her enemies (v.71)
That the Covenant of PROMISE to Abraham was not forgotten (v.72-73)
That having been saved from their enemies, would serve God once in their Land (because it needs a Temple for a Jew to serve)
That Israel would be turned from their sinning ways (by the New Covenant - Jer.31:31-33)
That John would prepare the way of the Lord Who will "give knowledge of salvation for Israel" (v.77)
That Israel's sins would be remitted (v.77)
That God would extend mercy to Israel (v.78)
That Israel would have peace (v.79)

Now, the meaning of "saved" for Israel is established, and what then is "salvation" for the individual who "ENDURES" to the end. We have a clue in the context. THE END is set as "the Abomination of Desolation" two verses later. What does the Abomination of Desolation achieve? The run-up to the Abomination of Desolation is the "daily oblation" (Dan.9:27) - a part of the Law of Moses. Then, the AoD sets up a Gentile king in the Holy of Holies. And he in turn sets up an idol effigy there - ALL AGAINST THE LAW OF MOSES. So one who "ENDURES" to the end is a Jew who testifies and warns that what Israel are doing is UNLAWFUL, a Jew who opposes this breach of Law. The Temple is called, in 2nd Thessalonian 2:4, - "the Temple of God". What Israel are doing is a total overthrow of the Laws that give God His place in Israel. The individual Israelite has the opportunity to OPPOSE the pact with the Beast.

And to confirm this all, what was the CONDITION for Israel's recovery??? What must Israel do to be gathered from the "four winds". It is anchored in the Law of Moses. NO VERSE says that Israel must believe in Jesus to be restored. The CONDITION for Israel's recovery is that they RETURN TO THE LAW with all their heart and soul. Deuteronomy 30:1-5 promises and predicts;

1 "And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers."

So all that must be established is, "What was Moses COMMANDING THAT DAY?" He was expounding the LAW! Israel will be recovered when the Remnant predcited in Romans 9 and 11 turn back to the Law with all their heart and soul. And the man of Matthew 24:13 is ONE OF THESE. He is a man who does not join apostate Israel and worship the AoD, AND WHO ENDURES TH CONSEQUENCES OF BUCKING THE BEAST, not because he wants to be Messiah, but because his presence, and the presence of his idol BREAK THE LAW OF MOSES.

Now, I know somebody will raise a vehement objection that only faith in Jesus can save. My answer is ready. "Read my paragraph on the various meanings of salvation AGAIN! I do not discuss the salvation to be had by FAITH in Jesus. Nor do I discuss how the ark SAVED Noah. I discuss the fulfillment of God's PROMISE to give Israel a Land as an "everlasting possession".

This verse is matt 24 verse 13-15

Endure from what?

Verse 6

6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

From persecutions

Younendure not deny Jesus during persecution

Being from Muslim country I understand it is not easy from Muslim convert not deny Jesus.
I am born Christian but I know one ex Muslim Christian deny Jesus on the youtube.

He was say on the YouTube that he is convert to Christian, about a year latter he say that he back to Muslim, than about 3 month latter he say on the youtube that he wasdeny jesus because under threat. Hundred of Muslim was serounding his house and ask him to deny Jesus or they kill his family.

So I believe base on verse 6, endure on verse 13 is endure from persecition

Blade · Aug 28, 2020

Hmm when Jesus said that...there were no Christians. "teaches that one’s final salvation depends on the state of the soul at death. As Jesus himself tells us, “He who endures to the end will be saved” You added something that is not there. No believer asked Him a question. Jewish people asked and so He told them what they would see. No where is "salvation" talked about because it had not even happen yet. Christ had not even died yet and rose PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS! Thank you Father.

Yes He said "But the (one who) persevers to (the) end will be saved. Again no where is He talking about a Christian as I read and study. He's talking about a time like no other in all mans history. You can take that verse and run with it many ways

Once speculation is added.. its nice to talk about but.. foolish to run with speculation

Blik · Aug 28, 2020

crossnote said:

You are either changing the subject or adding to scripture, for you are speaking of the tribulation not about enduring to the end.

There is effort that needs to be put into enduring to the end, but also it is the truth that the Lord's burden is light for accepting the Lord within gives us a contentment and joy.

It also points to that scripture does not say "once saved always saved" but it is possible not to endure to the end. We can always choose to change our minds about the Lord.

crossnote · Aug 28, 2020

throughfaith said:

So Jesus was wrong in saying "Unless a man is born again, he will not see the Kingdom of God?
How would you answer this passage?...

1 Corinthians 12:3 (KJV) Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

crossnote · Aug 28, 2020

Blik said:

I took it 'throughfaith was referring to the Tribulation saints.

Blik said:

I didn't ask anything about effort.

Blik said:

I see, you are agenda driven. (You had to change what I was saying to fit in your OSNAS agenda).

Here...

Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

having been confident of this very thing, that He who did begin in you a good work, will perform it till a day of Jesus Christ,
(Php 1:6)

Blik · Aug 28, 2020

throughfaith said:

That is not so. There is mention of the Holy Spirit in the OT, for Christ fulfilled what was spoken of Him in the OT. All the prophets reported what God breathed to them through the Holy Spirit. In Isaiah 42: 5*7 we read:
Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread forth the earth and that which comes from it,
Who gives breath to the people on it,
And spirit to those who walk on it:
6 “I, the Lord, have called You in righteousness,
And will hold Your hand;
I will keep You and give You as a covenant to the people,
As a light to the Gentiles,
7 To open blind eyes,
To bring out prisoners from the prison,
Those who sit in darkness from the prison house.

Blik · Aug 29, 2020

crossnote said:

You report your interpretation of scripture, are you then giving us information to uphold your "agenda" or are you giving us what you think scripture tells you? That is what I am doing, are you?

crossnote · Aug 29, 2020

Blik said:

It appears to be a future promise...

Ezekiel 36:26 (KJV) A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And speaking of the coming 'new' covenant with Israel...

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(Jer 31:33)

crossnote · Aug 29, 2020

Blik said:

You 'jumped in' and challenged me to interject your pet doctrine of OSNAS, I didn't do that to you.

Guojing · Aug 29, 2020

crossnote said:

"born again" is a concept that is directed to Israel. Israel was a nation born by God. God considered Israel like his first born. Exodus 4:22

Notice Paul never mentioned, even once, in his 13 letters to the Body of Christ, about being born again?

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved".

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